RugbyRebels

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: Usually, you’d suggest it to him as a last resort. That said, didn’t he put through a grabber for Slade to score in the 6N, possibly against Ireland, ironically off his left foot, I think.

May can kick - he's played full-back for Leicester on occasions and his kicking was never a problem. It's not his strong suit and he's unlikely to do a chip and chase when there's other options, but he is capable.

Puja

Hmmm...its pretty agricultural when it happens.

He’s got a decent boot, but it’s certainly not cultured.

Can your 31 man squad be augmented by other players once the WC starts.
For instance, could we have 4 or 5 extra players with the squad in Japan, who would take part in training and be on standby?
Its a long flight in case we do need a replacement.

fivepointer wrote:Can your 31 man squad be augmented by other players once the WC starts.
For instance, could we have 4 or 5 extra players with the squad in Japan, who would take part in training and be on standby?
Its a long flight in case we do need a replacement.

Pretty sure you’re not allowed other players to train with the 31 man squad once you’re out there. They could be there on ‘holiday’ but can’t train with the squad.

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:
May can kick - he's played full-back for Leicester on occasions and his kicking was never a problem. It's not his strong suit and he's unlikely to do a chip and chase when there's other options, but he is capable.

Puja

Hmmm...its pretty agricultural when it happens.

He’s got a decent boot, but it’s certainly not cultured.

hooftastic

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

fivepointer wrote:Can your 31 man squad be augmented by other players once the WC starts.
For instance, could we have 4 or 5 extra players with the squad in Japan, who would take part in training and be on standby?
Its a long flight in case we do need a replacement.

Pretty sure you’re not allowed other players to train with the 31 man squad once you’re out there. They could be there on ‘holiday’ but can’t train with the squad.

This and I’m sure Williams, Shields, Ewels and Spencer will be ‘holidaying’ in the area. Just by coincidence, obvs.

Interesting stat (courtesy of Russ Petty on twitter)
Average caps for this squad is 32.
Higher than in 2015 (25), 2011 (30) and 2007 (28).
In 2003 the average was 36 caps.
Based on this, we are not putting out an inexperienced squad despite some newish players and one currently uncapped.
Another interesting stat. George Ford has been involved in 40 of the 41 match day squads Eddie Jones has selected. Farrell is next in line with 35 and then George on 34.

Mellsblue wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

fivepointer wrote:Can your 31 man squad be augmented by other players once the WC starts.
For instance, could we have 4 or 5 extra players with the squad in Japan, who would take part in training and be on standby?
Its a long flight in case we do need a replacement.

Pretty sure you’re not allowed other players to train with the 31 man squad once you’re out there. They could be there on ‘holiday’ but can’t train with the squad.

This and I’m sure Williams, Shields, Ewels and Spencer will be ‘holidaying’ in the area. Just by coincidence, obvs.

Wouldn't be so sure, there's a pre-season going on. They might be allowed a bit of time off, but I suspect their clubs will want them training and learning the calls etc.

Raggs wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:
Pretty sure you’re not allowed other players to train with the 31 man squad once you’re out there. They could be there on ‘holiday’ but can’t train with the squad.

This and I’m sure Williams, Shields, Ewels and Spencer will be ‘holidaying’ in the area. Just by coincidence, obvs.

Wouldn't be so sure, there's a pre-season going on. They might be allowed a bit of time off, but I suspect their clubs will want them training and learning the calls etc.

Has Te'o signed for a squad yet? Maybe that's his plan all along!

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: Usually, you’d suggest it to him as a last resort. That said, didn’t he put through a grabber for Slade to score in the 6N, possibly against Ireland, ironically off his left foot, I think.

May can kick - he's played full-back for Leicester on occasions and his kicking was never a problem. It's not his strong suit and he's unlikely to do a chip and chase when there's other options, but he is capable.

Puja

Hmmm...its pretty agricultural when it happens.

Which you need for a salad

fivepointer wrote:Interesting stat (courtesy of Russ Petty on twitter)
Average caps for this squad is 32.
Higher than in 2015 (25), 2011 (30) and 2007 (28).
In 2003 the average was 36 caps.
Based on this, we are not putting out an inexperienced squad despite some newish players and one currently uncapped.
Another interesting stat. George Ford has been involved in 40 of the 41 match day squads Eddie Jones has selected. Farrell is next in line with 35 and then George on 34.

Interesting stats!

I guess where it's odd is that in nearly every position we have low caps
Hooker: Singleton - 1 cap
Prop: Genge - 10 caps
Backrow: Curry - 11 caps, Ludlam - 1 cap, Underhill - 7 caps, Wilson - 13 caps
Scrumhalf: Heinz - 1 cap
Centre: Francis - 5 caps
Wing: Big Joe - 5 caps, McConnochie - 0 caps

(I guess this highlights the oddity with our backrow, in my view, we look as strong as we have for a very long time, but jeeeeze we lack experience there)

Renniks wrote:

fivepointer wrote:Interesting stat (courtesy of Russ Petty on twitter)
Average caps for this squad is 32.
Higher than in 2015 (25), 2011 (30) and 2007 (28).
In 2003 the average was 36 caps.
Based on this, we are not putting out an inexperienced squad despite some newish players and one currently uncapped.
Another interesting stat. George Ford has been involved in 40 of the 41 match day squads Eddie Jones has selected. Farrell is next in line with 35 and then George on 34.

Interesting stats!

I guess where it's odd is that in nearly every position we have low caps
Hooker: Singleton - 1 cap
Prop: Genge - 10 caps
Backrow: Curry - 11 caps, Ludlam - 1 cap, Underhill - 7 caps, Wilson - 13 caps
Scrumhalf: Heinz - 1 cap
Centre: Francis - 5 caps
Wing: Big Joe - 5 caps, McConnochie - 0 caps

(I guess this highlights the oddity with our backrow, in my view, we look as strong as we have for a very long time, but jeeeeze we lack experience there)

Other than Wilson, who he should have more caps, you can’t really blame Jones. Not that I’m saying you are! Underhill is perma crocked )and was name checked by Jones early on), Ludlum wasn’t playing for his club until this season and Curry was picked pretty much as soon as was possible. That said, difficult to argue against the idea he has wasted caps on Hughes and Shields when he could have the likes of Kevs in to double figures. I also have sympathy for the Francis situation - he has mostly been in squads when fit and Te’o may have gone ahead of him but for the (another) booze related incident.
Hooker and 9 are entirely his fault. Wing, again, is a case of a youngster picked ASAP, Cokanasiga, and McConnochie who only started playing regularly/at all(?) in the top flight this season.

Quite the turnover.

I know that his hands been forced slightly, and, as has been flagged - it's not like they're worse players but…

Hartley, Hughes, Robshaw, Care, Te'o, Ashton, Brown all have had quite a few caps under EJ and sit in those positions - would we have been better not giving them caps? Would we be better off included them in the RWC squad?

I think the balance is just about okay, but some injuries and we could be dropping to well under 25 caps average

Mellsblue wrote:

Renniks wrote:

fivepointer wrote:Interesting stat (courtesy of Russ Petty on twitter)
Average caps for this squad is 32.
Higher than in 2015 (25), 2011 (30) and 2007 (28).
In 2003 the average was 36 caps.
Based on this, we are not putting out an inexperienced squad despite some newish players and one currently uncapped.
Another interesting stat. George Ford has been involved in 40 of the 41 match day squads Eddie Jones has selected. Farrell is next in line with 35 and then George on 34.

Interesting stats!

I guess where it's odd is that in nearly every position we have low caps
Hooker: Singleton - 1 cap
Prop: Genge - 10 caps
Backrow: Curry - 11 caps, Ludlam - 1 cap, Underhill - 7 caps, Wilson - 13 caps
Scrumhalf: Heinz - 1 cap
Centre: Francis - 5 caps
Wing: Big Joe - 5 caps, McConnochie - 0 caps

(I guess this highlights the oddity with our backrow, in my view, we look as strong as we have for a very long time, but jeeeeze we lack experience there)

Other than Wilson, who he should have more caps, you can’t really blame Jones. Not that I’m saying you are! Underhill is perma crocked )and was name checked by Jones early on), Ludlum wasn’t playing for his club until this season and Curry was picked pretty much as soon as was possible. That said, difficult to argue against the idea he has wasted caps on Hughes and Shields when he could have the likes of Kevs in to double figures. I also have sympathy for the Francis situation - he has mostly been in squads when fit and Te’o may have gone ahead of him but for the (another) booze related incident.
Hooker and 9 are entirely his fault. Wing, again, is a case of a youngster picked ASAP, Cokanasiga, and McConnochie who only started playing regularly/at all(?) in the top flight this season.

Agreed. Not sure he has cocked hooker up as badly as 9, despite us not being fans of Dylan. Even at 9, I have a tiny bit of sympathy looking at the contenders, though I'd have had Robson playing two years ago.

fivepointer wrote:Interesting stat (courtesy of Russ Petty on twitter)
Average caps for this squad is 32.
Higher than in 2015 (25), 2011 (30) and 2007 (28).
In 2003 the average was 36 caps.
Based on this, we are not putting out an inexperienced squad despite some newish players and one currently uncapped.
Another interesting stat. George Ford has been involved in 40 of the 41 match day squads Eddie Jones has selected. Farrell is next in line with 35 and then George on 34.

I was thinking this when I saw the initial squad, that we have a few guys with a good number of caps really making up the numbers. Not that many of them are actually starters though, oddly.

Marler, Cole, Lawes and Launch make up a ton of those caps. Though having some experienced guys on the bench is surely handy in it's own way.

If we avoid too many injuries, we should end up with 34-35 cap average before the tournament too…

Perception is much different to reality it would seem

The suggestions for favoured starting teams looks to be closer to 40 cap average too (with a potentially similarly capped bench average)

Banquo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Renniks wrote:
Interesting stats!

I guess where it's odd is that in nearly every position we have low caps
Hooker: Singleton - 1 cap
Prop: Genge - 10 caps
Backrow: Curry - 11 caps, Ludlam - 1 cap, Underhill - 7 caps, Wilson - 13 caps
Scrumhalf: Heinz - 1 cap
Centre: Francis - 5 caps
Wing: Big Joe - 5 caps, McConnochie - 0 caps

(I guess this highlights the oddity with our backrow, in my view, we look as strong as we have for a very long time, but jeeeeze we lack experience there)

Other than Wilson, who he should have more caps, you can’t really blame Jones. Not that I’m saying you are! Underhill is perma crocked )and was name checked by Jones early on), Ludlum wasn’t playing for his club until this season and Curry was picked pretty much as soon as was possible. That said, difficult to argue against the idea he has wasted caps on Hughes and Shields when he could have the likes of Kevs in to double figures. I also have sympathy for the Francis situation - he has mostly been in squads when fit and Te’o may have gone ahead of him but for the (another) booze related incident.
Hooker and 9 are entirely his fault. Wing, again, is a case of a youngster picked ASAP, Cokanasiga, and McConnochie who only started playing regularly/at all(?) in the top flight this season.

Agreed. Not sure he has cocked hooker up as badly as 9, despite us not being fans of Dylan. Even at 9, I have a tiny bit of sympathy looking at the contenders, though I'd have had Robson playing two years ago.

Fair enough at 2 but LCD certainly needed some experience in him. I’ve no sympathy at 9. I still don’t understand what Care has done wrong and goodness knows what Heinz has done right all of sudden.

Renniks wrote:If we avoid too many injuries, we should end up with 34-35 cap average before the tournament too…

Perception is much different to reality it would seem

The suggestions for favoured starting teams looks to be closer to 40 cap average too (with a potentially similarly capped bench average)

The core is certainly experienced but a couple of badly placed injuries, George and Youngs standout, plus Manu if no longer countenancing Farrell at 12, and we’re straight into inexperienced players with inexperienced replacement to call upon.
All that said, from what I’ve read, it’s a well received squad with only very small amounts of wtf, ie 9.

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: Other than Wilson, who he should have more caps, you can’t really blame Jones. Not that I’m saying you are! Underhill is perma crocked )and was name checked by Jones early on), Ludlum wasn’t playing for his club until this season and Curry was picked pretty much as soon as was possible. That said, difficult to argue against the idea he has wasted caps on Hughes and Shields when he could have the likes of Kevs in to double figures. I also have sympathy for the Francis situation - he has mostly been in squads when fit and Te’o may have gone ahead of him but for the (another) booze related incident.
Hooker and 9 are entirely his fault. Wing, again, is a case of a youngster picked ASAP, Cokanasiga, and McConnochie who only started playing regularly/at all(?) in the top flight this season.

Agreed. Not sure he has cocked hooker up as badly as 9, despite us not being fans of Dylan. Even at 9, I have a tiny bit of sympathy looking at the contenders, though I'd have had Robson playing two years ago.

Fair enough at 2 but LCD certainly needed some experience in him. I’ve no sympathy at 9. I still don’t understand what Care has done wrong and goodness knows what Heinz has done right all of sudden.

I'm generally at a loss re Care, who has some great attributes as a 9, but successive coaches have found ways of finding fault, whilst awarding 84 caps!. Discipline was an issue, then some howlers. The point I'm making on 9 is that its not a great pool of talent to dip into imo.

Mellsblue wrote:

Renniks wrote:If we avoid too many injuries, we should end up with 34-35 cap average before the tournament too…

Perception is much different to reality it would seem

The suggestions for favoured starting teams looks to be closer to 40 cap average too (with a potentially similarly capped bench average)

The core is certainly experienced but a couple of badly placed injuries, George and Youngs standout, plus Manu if no longer countenancing Farrell at 12, and we’re straight into inexperienced players with inexperienced replacement to call upon.
All that said, from what I’ve read, it’s a well received squad with only very small amounts of wtf, ie 9.

yup

Renniks wrote:I know that his hands been forced slightly, and, as has been flagged - it's not like they're worse players but…

Hartley, Hughes, Robshaw, Care, Te'o, Ashton, Brown all have had quite a few caps under EJ and sit in those positions - would we have been better not giving them caps? Would we be better off included them in the RWC squad?

I think the balance is just about okay, but some injuries and we could be dropping to well under 25 caps average

I think you’d a few of those for transition and leadership purposes. Hartley, Robshaw and Brown standout; though, you could argue they could’ve been phased out earlier - I’ve come to the conclusion the winning run was a curse rather than a blessing.
As above, I don’t know why Care has been dropped.
Te’o...don’t particularly rate him but I suppose there is the argument that if you want a crash ball option at IC it’s sensible to use him whilst waiting for Tuilagi to recover.
Hughes and Ashton were just a waste of caps.

Banquo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote: Agreed. Not sure he has cocked hooker up as badly as 9, despite us not being fans of Dylan. Even at 9, I have a tiny bit of sympathy looking at the contenders, though I'd have had Robson playing two years ago.

Fair enough at 2 but LCD certainly needed some experience in him. I’ve no sympathy at 9. I still don’t understand what Care has done wrong and goodness knows what Heinz has done right all of sudden.

The point I'm making on 9 is that its not a great pool of talent to dip into imo.

Agreed.

Mellsblue wrote: I think you’d a few of those for transition and leadership purposes. Hartley, Robshaw and Brown standout; though, you could argue they could’ve been phased out earlier - I’ve come to the conclusion the winning run was a curse rather than a blessing.

I agree with this. He has wasted a huge amount of caps on players he really shouldn't have. Whether they are/were good enough is arguable but where would the harm have been in giving possibles 20 mins or so rather than 5 mins at the end of games which is what he did such a lot of the time. Wtf are you gonna learn giving someone new 5 mins?

I don't suppose anyone will ever understand what Eddie's been thinking, so much of what he's done selectionwise (never mind what he's said) has been baffling. He's given cap after cap after cap to players in poor form then dropped them completely when they started playing well. Hughes had been gash for two years and got many caps, then just as he was starting to play well for Wasps again he was ejected forever.

But then you have the other side of the coin where he's picked Ludlam from seemingly nowhere and the lad had a great game on his debut. It'd be interesting to wonder whether Shields would have been in instead if he hadn't got injured........

Beasties wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: I think you’d a few of those for transition and leadership purposes. Hartley, Robshaw and Brown standout; though, you could argue they could’ve been phased out earlier - I’ve come to the conclusion the winning run was a curse rather than a blessing.

I agree with this. He has wasted a huge amount of caps on players he really shouldn't have. Whether they are/were good enough is arguable but where would the harm ahve been in giving possibles 20 mins or so rather than 5 mins at the end of games which is what he did such a lot of the time. Wtf are you gonna learn giving someone new 5 mins?

I don't suppose anyone will ever understand what Eddie's been thinking, so much of what he's done selectionwise (never mind what he's said) has been utterly baffling. He's given cap after cap after cap to players in poor form then dropped them completely when they started playing well. Hughes had been gash for two years and got many caps, then just as he was starting to play well for Wasps again he was ejected forever.

But then you have the other side of the coin where he's picked Ludlam from seemingly nowhere and the lad had a great game on his debut. It'd be interesting to wonder whether Shields would have been in instead if he hadn't got injured........

we had more of this nonsense on Sunday with Singleton and Marchant coming on in the 78th minute. Its insulting. If you dont want to play someone, then dont put them on.
Jones has done this to Isiekwe and Maunder while on tour, and given Robson and Spencer just enough time to require their kit to go into the wash. Tommy Taylor had 4 minutes to win his only cap. Devoto had 5 minutes. Armand did manage to get off the bench for a few minutes in both his games. Poor Jonny Hill had the indignity of seeing Shields come in at lock ahead of him in SA.

Beasties wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: I think you’d a few of those for transition and leadership purposes. Hartley, Robshaw and Brown standout; though, you could argue they could’ve been phased out earlier - I’ve come to the conclusion the winning run was a curse rather than a blessing.

I agree with this. He has wasted a huge amount of caps on players he really shouldn't have. Whether they are/were good enough is arguable but where would the harm have been in giving possibles 20 mins or so rather than 5 mins at the end of games which is what he did such a lot of the time. Wtf are you gonna learn giving someone new 5 mins?

I don't suppose anyone will ever understand what Eddie's been thinking, so much of what he's done selectionwise (never mind what he's said) has been baffling. He's given cap after cap after cap to players in poor form then dropped them completely when they started playing well. Hughes had been gash for two years and got many caps, then just as he was starting to play well for Wasps again he was ejected forever.

But then you have the other side of the coin where he's picked Ludlam from seemingly nowhere and the lad had a great game on his debut. It'd be interesting to wonder whether Shields would have been in instead if he hadn't got injured........

Eddie when selecting.......