RugbyRebels

Mikey Brown wrote:I know this should be in the Edinburgh thread but I’m too alarmed at the lack of VDW.



I really hope it’s not because he’s in the squad for Italy.

VdW is really not very good but we are going to have Duncy Weir backed up by James Lang. Even with Johnson back to add to the back line, that’s a fairly sorry state of affairs and will kill our attacking shape. For all of his attributes, Weir cannae pass the ball for toffee.

ARM wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:I know this should be in the Edinburgh thread but I’m too alarmed at the lack of VDW.



I really hope it’s not because he’s in the squad for Italy.

VdW is really not very good but we are going to have Duncy Weir backed up by James Lang. Even with Johnson back to add to the back line, that’s a fairly sorry state of affairs and will kill our attacking shape. For all of his attributes, Weir cannae pass the ball for toffee.

Weir is not Russell or Hastings, maybe why he is 3rd choice. But there is not a single aspect of play where VDW is better than Weir, not even close

we do have a not quite edinburgh problem, escalating quickly into a full on edinburgh problem. Whoever we field we have a very good back 3. But we have been relying on no10s and 15 to get them into play. Which is just about fine if its Russel/Hastings and Hogg and we play well. Take away Russel/Hastings and too much on Hogg. Take away Hogg and we struggle even with Russel/Hastings. No ball playing centre is a huge issue. Hopefully Johnson can paper over that a bit but the case for Horne Snr again in he squad is very strong, in the match day 23 for me.
But that isn't going to happen, so fingers crossed Lang can step it up and we play a way that enables him to play when he is on he park

Weir at his bustling best will do a job. That comes in fits and starts though. Whatever we think about VDW, he is inevitably in line somewhere so it can't come as a shock if he gets a cap.

I don't really disagree on principle re Horne but even at his best there were question marks (some unfair but some justified). I think unless he shows some really good form then we have to be looking to move on.

Think this is a first

this is the team i would pick


Hogg (c),
Graham,
Harris,
Johnson,
Van der Merwe,
Weir,
Price;

Sutherland,
McInally,
Z. Fagerson,
Cummings,
Gray,
Ritchie,
Watson,
Thomson.

Replacements: Turner, Kebble, Nel, Skinner, Haining, Hidalgo-Clyne, Lang, Kinghorn.

I didn't realise the above was you saying the team was announced, but yes it's all pretty logical. That's a very one-paced midfield but Johnson should add some solidity and experience (not many caps but plays like an old head) while it makes more sense for Lang to cover 10 from the bench.

I wasn't sure Duhan would get a shot but I'm glad he has. That backline definitely needs the pace and the firepower.

Wasn't bowled over by Thomson but good to actually see some continuity there and see if he can settle in to the role.

Brown injured or rested? Reserve scrum-half tombola is interesting, and keen to see SHC again. I'm sure we'll get another look at Steele but it seems harsh to be dropped after 10-15 minutes totally out of position on his debut.

I'm pleased for SHC. Has taken a long road, some of which was undoubtedly his fault, but made it back to internationals.

Have they explicitly said Lang is back up 10?

I mean him and Weir are the only who have played 10 this season aren't they? It was fun to see Hogg there for a bit vs Wales but I imagine if we'd had another centre on the bench we would have seen Lang move there first.

Mikey Brown wrote:I mean him and Weir are the only who have played 10 this season aren't they? It was fun to see Hogg there for a bit vs Wales but I imagine if we'd had another centre on the bench we would have seen Lang move there first.

Has he played 10 this season? Last few times I saw him play he was wearing 13 and I don't really follow Quins too much.

It would make sense that he is the back up 10 but was curious to see if they had actually said it.

Big D wrote:I'm pleased for SHC. Has taken a long road, some of which was undoubtedly his fault, but made it back to internationals.

Have they explicitly said Lang is back up 10?

haven't seen anything today but Townsend specifically talked about him as one of the alternatives last week. Around the time Hoggie made clear he would if he had to but didn't really want to. There isn't really another option in that 23 that wouldn't scare me shitless

Great barnet on Weir there.

Is Blade an actual name?

I mean is it like a nickname that became official or something? Like with Chiliboy Ralepele.

Mr Mwenda wrote:Great barnet on Weir there.

Is Blade an actual name?

There’s a couple of good lids in there, to be fair.

Mr Mwenda wrote:Great barnet on Weir there.

Is Blade an actual name?

His real name is Chib.

Apparently his middle name is Neville!

Chib Neville Thomson. Jesus. I can see why he wanted to reinvent himself as Blade.

So Horne has a toe injury and Brown has a concussion. He's had a few now, right?

septic 9 wrote:

Big D wrote:I'm pleased for SHC. Has taken a long road, some of which was undoubtedly his fault, but made it back to internationals.

Have they explicitly said Lang is back up 10?

haven't seen anything today but Townsend specifically talked about him as one of the alternatives last week. Around the time Hoggie made clear he would if he had to but didn't really want to. There isn't really another option in that 23 that wouldn't scare me shitless

Yeah, that is true. I just don't recall Lang stepping into 10 at all in the last 10 minutes v Wales (although Hogg was playing 10).

Big D wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:I mean him and Weir are the only who have played 10 this season aren't they? It was fun to see Hogg there for a bit vs Wales but I imagine if we'd had another centre on the bench we would have seen Lang move there first.

Has he played 10 this season? Last few times I saw him play he was wearing 13 and I don't really follow Quins too much.

It would make sense that he is the back up 10 but was curious to see if they had actually said it.

He last started at ten in March 2019. This season he's played almost exclusively in the centres and he looks much more comfortable there to me. Quins evidently like his flexibility on the bench. When Smith's starting Lang backs him up (including if he's starting in the centre), but when Smith is rested it's been Herron who takes the start. However he was also injured from January to the lockdown, so missed quite a large chunk of the season.

Mikey Brown wrote:So Horne has a toe injury and Brown has a concussion. He's had a few now, right?

Too many. Hope it's precautionary but decent chance for Turner. His carrying is such a point of difference, just lacks consistency with the basics.

Decent team though. If it's dry and Italy kick like they did against England, that back three could have fun.

Anyone a bit nervous about this game? We should have the beating of this Italy side, even in Rome, but they had some reasonable moments in the first half against England and proved pretty obstinate. Polledri's also a game wrecker if he gets going.

Got to get lots of pressure on their young ten I reckon. A few loose kicks for our back three to run back would be nice.

switchskier wrote:Anyone a bit nervous about this game? We should have the beating of this Italy side, even in Rome, but they had some reasonable moments in the first half against England and proved pretty obstinate. Polledri's also a game wrecker if he gets going.

Got to get lots of pressure on their young ten I reckon. A few loose kicks for our back three to run back would be nice.

Italy's normally a nervous game for us but I really hope we start well because then I don't think they have too much. If Russell was there, I'd say we could have a lot of fun out wide.

Cameo wrote:

switchskier wrote:Anyone a bit nervous about this game? We should have the beating of this Italy side, even in Rome, but they had some reasonable moments in the first half against England and proved pretty obstinate. Polledri's also a game wrecker if he gets going.

Got to get lots of pressure on their young ten I reckon. A few loose kicks for our back three to run back would be nice.

Italy's normally a nervous game for us but I really hope we start well because then I don't think they have too much. If Russell was there, I'd say we could have a lot of fun out wide.

the young 10 is a real prospect, as is the winger. Both excellent at U20, outstanding

But, and I know this will disappoint some, looking at those 2 packs, we are going to steam roller them. Our front 5 are good scrummagers, better than the Italians and with a big weight advantage as well. Also a height advantage in the lineout. Their back row is good and Polledri as you say a beast, but of we keep the ball and play in the right areas this could be a straightforward if unexciting win

septic 9 wrote:

Cameo wrote:

switchskier wrote:Anyone a bit nervous about this game? We should have the beating of this Italy side, even in Rome, but they had some reasonable moments in the first half against England and proved pretty obstinate. Polledri's also a game wrecker if he gets going.

Got to get lots of pressure on their young ten I reckon. A few loose kicks for our back three to run back would be nice.

Italy's normally a nervous game for us but I really hope we start well because then I don't think they have too much. If Russell was there, I'd say we could have a lot of fun out wide.

the young 10 is a real prospect, as is the winger. Both excellent at U20, outstanding

But, and I know this will disappoint some, looking at those 2 packs, we are going to steam roller them. Our front 5 are good scrummagers, better than the Italians and with a big weight advantage as well. Also a height advantage in the lineout. Their back row is good and Polledri as you say a beast, but of we keep the ball and play in the right areas this could be a straightforward if unexciting win

Italy team is below. No doubt that Garbisi is a talent but thought he got a bit loose against England. He'll improve but I'm ok with a game plan where the defensive line gets out more aggressively this week and has Watson in his face all day.

If you look at the Italian backs that's a pretty young group. They're evidently looking to build and grow together. Hope that they stick to it and see it through.

15-Matteo Minozzi, 14-Jacopo Trulla, 13-Marco Zanon, 12-Carlo Canna, 11-Mattia Bellini, 10-Paolo Garbisi, 9-Marcello Violi, 8-Jake Polledri, 7-Braam Steyn, 6-Sebastian Negri, 5-Niccolo Cannone, 4-Marco Lazzaroni, 3-Giosue Zilocchi, 2-Luca Bigi, 1-Danilo Fischetti

Replacements: 16-Leonardo Ghiraldini, 17-Simone Ferrari, 18-Pietro Ceccarelli, 19-Johan Meyer, 20-Maxime Mbanda, 21-Stephen Varney, 22-Tomasso Allan, 23-Federico Mori

switchskier wrote:

septic 9 wrote:

Cameo wrote:
Italy's normally a nervous game for us but I really hope we start well because then I don't think they have too much. If Russell was there, I'd say we could have a lot of fun out wide.

the young 10 is a real prospect, as is the winger. Both excellent at U20, outstanding

But, and I know this will disappoint some, looking at those 2 packs, we are going to steam roller them. Our front 5 are good scrummagers, better than the Italians and with a big weight advantage as well. Also a height advantage in the lineout. Their back row is good and Polledri as you say a beast, but of we keep the ball and play in the right areas this could be a straightforward if unexciting win

Italy team is below. No doubt that Garbisi is a talent but thought he got a bit loose against England. He'll improve but I'm ok with a game plan where the defensive line gets out more aggressively this week and has Watson in his face all day.

If you look at the Italian backs that's a pretty young group. They're evidently looking to build and grow together. Hope that they stick to it and see it through.

15-Matteo Minozzi, 14-Jacopo Trulla, 13-Marco Zanon, 12-Carlo Canna, 11-Mattia Bellini, 10-Paolo Garbisi, 9-Marcello Violi, 8-Jake Polledri, 7-Braam Steyn, 6-Sebastian Negri, 5-Niccolo Cannone, 4-Marco Lazzaroni, 3-Giosue Zilocchi, 2-Luca Bigi, 1-Danilo Fischetti

Replacements: 16-Leonardo Ghiraldini, 17-Simone Ferrari, 18-Pietro Ceccarelli, 19-Johan Meyer, 20-Maxime Mbanda, 21-Stephen Varney, 22-Tomasso Allan, 23-Federico Mori

its a young side all round, with a few older guys. 2 guys on the bench have nearly as many caps as the starting XV.

They have been changing direction tactically for a while - away from the big pack and nothing else bar a goal kicker and some passion to trying to play running rugby. I think they have maybe moved too far too fast. That may be just that they don't have the players but their set piece is poor. I think they are stuck with a load of youngish props (plus Cecerelli) The young props have all been falling foul of refs at international and league levels. But they do have a couple of more experienced locks. Lazzeroni is usually a 6, big 6, but a 6 who runs hard and tackles hard but usually not for 80mins. Cannone is a back row/lock. Both are below average weight for international locks, and both around 6'5".

So I think they are going to try and run us off our feet, but won't last the course. If we score first and keep pressing it could get ugly as I think our pack is capable of really imposing itself on the opposition as much as against Georgia. Even if we take a while to score, as long as we don't over play and chase the game, we will win with something to spare. I don't often do predictions