Italy vs England and 6N permutations

[Puja]

Heinz out injured, Mitchell called up

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Although we're all very aware that this will just lead to Dan Robson getting another 3 minute England cap before Heinz returns for the vital game against Georgia.

Puja

[Stom]

I think he talked about a 12 passing to a 13...

Ah, with you

It is a surprisingly rare occurrence- then again, even in my day it would have been rare from 1st phase.

Well indeed...and then it's a pretty pointless quote. Our centres should be able to pass to a high standard so that if they make a break and have a player with them, they can find them...

Otherwise you just get a team of Erinles and screw any passing.

[Banquo]

Ah, with you

It is a surprisingly rare occurrence- then again, even in my day it would have been rare from 1st phase.

Well indeed...and then it's a pretty pointless quote. Our centres should be able to pass to a high standard so that if they make a break and have a player with them, they can find them...

Otherwise you just get a team of Erinles and screw any passing.

The point being he didn’t say what appeared to prompt your post. The context was important- your follow up saves the day however . My take was that he was trying to say having a 12 who can pass, but has no running threat is no use; hopefully he kept a straight face and won’t pick Faz there again (who even struggles with the passing sometimes).

[Mikey Brown]

BTW, as I watched the France Wales highlights, I just wanted to bring up a previous Jones quote about centres and passing... couldn't find where it was though so thought this was as good a place as any.

He said words to the effect of: there's only really 1 pass before a try, so we want runners in midfield.

France's 2nd try had 5 passes. Their 3rd had 4. Lovely tries and without the passing, they would never have got close. Good passing can really make the difference. Just look how good we look when doing wrap arounds simply because we have a 1, 3, 8 and 15 who can pass to a high standard.

Watching the NZ vs Aus game the other day the quality of passing was so stark in comparison to all the English and European stuff I’d been watching. It’s just a completely different game when passes reliably go exactly where they’re needed.

I feel like NZ can be totally average in most areas of the game but will eventually take advantage just by being better at executing basic passes.

That’s not to say Eddie is wrong in thinking we (or anybody else) aren’t up to that level, but it’s a shame to just give up on the idea of stringing more than a couple of passes together.

[Oakboy]

I'm not sure Jones ever says much worth listening to. Of course, whether he knows much worth saying about the modern game is another debate. All the statistics in the world are of no use on their own. Using them to be innovative might be. The jury is out.

[Banquo]

BTW, as I watched the France Wales highlights, I just wanted to bring up a previous Jones quote about centres and passing... couldn't find where it was though so thought this was as good a place as any.

He said words to the effect of: there's only really 1 pass before a try, so we want runners in midfield.

France's 2nd try had 5 passes. Their 3rd had 4. Lovely tries and without the passing, they would never have got close. Good passing can really make the difference. Just look how good we look when doing wrap arounds simply because we have a 1, 3, 8 and 15 who can pass to a high standard.

Watching the NZ vs Aus game the other day the quality of passing was so stark in comparison to all the English and European stuff I’d been watching. It’s just a completely different game when passes reliably go exactly where they’re needed.

I feel like NZ can be totally average in most areas of the game but will eventually take advantage just by being better at executing basic passes.

That’s not to say Eddie is wrong in thinking we (or anybody else) aren’t up to that level, but it’s a shame to just give up on the idea of stringing more than a couple of passes together.

Their all round skill set across the board remains their edge generally, especially outside the set piece. Handling, decision making, technique into contact- ‘basics’ drilled in from very young, alongside game understanding. You don’t get very far as a player in NZ generally without having good all round skills and a good understanding of when and how to do stuff.

[Puja]

New behind-the-scenes video:


I always find it fascinating to look at the way they train and the exercises they do. Good to see them play a fully-fledged game on the weekend (teams pulled out of a hat rather than 1sts vs 2nds) and I think they probably gained more from that than they would from demolishing Saracens reserves. While the promo video is hardly going to show the bits where people f*cked up and knocked on, there were a lot of good bits on display there and it looks like a squad in good nick.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

I’m sure there’s very little to be read in to this but I’m incredibly bored right now. I’m mainly just curious how that relates to super rugby teams.



Has Furbank ever played 10?

Just to clarify I haven’t actually watched the video yet, just saw that pop up on the preview and it seemed weird. Maybe these are the teams picked out of a hat.

[Scrumhead]

Believe it or not, these were actually teams drawn out of a hat.

Furbank would only have been at 10 because it was the Barbarians week when Ford had withdrawn and Umaga was yet to join. Arguably Malins at 10 would have made more sense, but I’m hoping it’s because he’s being looked at as a 15.

[Digby]

Believe it or not, these were actually teams drawn out of a hat.

And all the forwards ended up as forwards, all the backs as backs, and Youngs and Farrell at 9 and 10?

Was the hat perhaps only allowed certain heavily options?

[Puja]

Believe it or not, these were actually teams drawn out of a hat.

And all the forwards ended up as forwards, all the backs as backs, and Youngs and Farrell at 9 and 10?

Was the hat perhaps only allowed certain heavily options?

They were picked out of a hat, but players were allocated based on their position and I'd imagine if you picked Dunn, then George, then you'd have to put the second one back and pick again.

I was going to say that Furbank was the only pseudo-10 in the squad at that point given no Umaga or Slade, but s/h's point about Malins reminded me I'd forgotten him. Suggests that Eddie was a lot more interested in looking at Malins as a 15 than he was at Furbank.

ETA. Although, looking at the squad at the time, that suggests that Malins was one full-back and Piers Francis was the other?! They're the only two not listed (apart from Wilson, who may have had his injury by that point). Suggests Eddie does see Furbank as a 10, since logic would otherwise suggest it made more sense to have Francis at 10 and Furbank at 15.

Puja

[Raggs]

I guess some players were paired up. So only Dunn was put in the hat, and if you got him, then the other side automatically got George, obviously.

[Mellsblue]

Given there are no fullbacks, I may have just worked out why we kick it away so f**king much during matches. No 15 is ok when you have a Norse god playing 14 as you might get away with it but, otherwise, it’s pretty risk.
On the other hand, they must just be practising scenarios in which Daly or Furbank will be under a garryowen......

[Oakboy]

Has Pascal Gauzêre refereed us before? What's he like?

[Scrumhead]

Rare to get something useful from Wales Online!

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... d-17712120

[Oakboy]

Rare to get something useful from Wales Online!

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... d-17712120

Ah, thanks. Now I remember him.

[Epaminondas Pules]

I’m sure there’s very little to be read in to this but I’m incredibly bored right now. I’m mainly just curious how that relates to super rugby teams.



Has Furbank ever played 10?

Just to clarify I haven’t actually watched the video yet, just saw that pop up on the preview and it seemed weird. Maybe these are the teams picked out of a hat.

Yep. Played both fullback and 10 throughout age grade and school career and also for the Wanderers on occasion.

[Epaminondas Pules]

I do love the way people seem confused by the concept of picking names out of a hat, but at the same time ensuring that a loosehead actually plays loosehead rather than on the wing.

Notice Curry at 8 and Dombrandt at 6.....

[Puja]

I do love the way people seem confused by the concept of picking names out of a hat, but at the same time ensuring that a loosehead actually plays loosehead rather than on the wing.

Notice Curry at 8 and Dombrandt at 6.....

Although they are on opposing teams. It would make sense for Curry to go to 8 in a back row with Hill and Underhill (sounds like his apprentice!), and for Dombrandt to go to 6 in a backrow with BillyV.

Puja

[Epaminondas Pules]

I do love the way people seem confused by the concept of picking names out of a hat, but at the same time ensuring that a loosehead actually plays loosehead rather than on the wing.

Notice Curry at 8 and Dombrandt at 6.....

Although they are on opposing teams. It would make sense for Curry to go to 8 in a back row with Hill and Underhill (sounds like his apprentice!), and for Dombrandt to go to 6 in a backrow with BillyV.

Puja

To be fair it could just be that all six were in the same 'hat' and thus you made your backrow with what you got.

I too got confused [potentially] by the concept of picking names out of a hat.

[Scrumhead]

I think that’s exactly it. The only names in the hat at any one time were for specific positions.

[Puja]

I do love the way people seem confused by the concept of picking names out of a hat, but at the same time ensuring that a loosehead actually plays loosehead rather than on the wing.

Notice Curry at 8 and Dombrandt at 6.....

Although they are on opposing teams. It would make sense for Curry to go to 8 in a back row with Hill and Underhill (sounds like his apprentice!), and for Dombrandt to go to 6 in a backrow with BillyV.

Puja

To be fair it could just be that all six were in the same 'hat' and thus you made your backrow with what you got.

That was my assumption.

Puja

[Timbo]

Looking at the squad named on Monday I think it’s clear that Tom Curry is seen as back up/competing 8 with Billy, so I expect they want him to get as many reps there as possible. While with Dombrandt they probably are happy just to keep exposing him to this level.

From the training vids, Maro looks (predictably) like an absolute colossus. Manhandled Genge twice. And Thor(ley) is a real handful. Not polished at all, but looks like he could make a big impact at test level just through athleticism and physicality.

[Puja]

From the training vids, Maro looks (predictably) like an absolute colossus. Manhandled Genge twice.

The bit in the game where Genge made a powerful crashball run and just got stopped dead and then driven back by Itoje was a thing of utter beauty. Hopefully some valuable lessons about technique for Genge, but Itoje just doesn't seem to stop improving. I really hope he does get to go do some Super Rugby in the new year; I'd love to see him measure up and learn from time at a Kiwi franchise.

Puja

[morepork]

Can you have him de-barked before sending him down?