RugbyRebels

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Banquo wrote:

p/d wrote:Just waiting for Oakboys assault on LCD’s throwing

quite rightly. He is so good in the loose it nearly makes up for it.

It is one of those things that sticks regardless of what he does. There was a stats last season that showed he had the best lineout percentage in the prem for the last three years. Obviously there is more to the lineout that the hooker, but his stats are superior to his competition. When it does go awry the comments always round back to it been his Achilles heel.

That's not to say it's perfect, but his perceived throwing wobbles are not as closely aligned with reality.

Banquo wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:I’m not suggesting he shouldn’t be replaced or he’s a better bet for the 23 than LCD, because we don’t have a clue whether he can even handle this level or not. I’d be annoyed if I were him and only got about 3 minutes to state my case.

I’m glad he was so happy to win his first cap, having it expressed so publicly that your boss has zero faith in you to do anything other than hold tackle bags in training and make up a body on the bench would piss me off. That’s what I’m saying.

It might make you work harder.......

well yes. There are clear messages- Eddie only had Dunn on the bench, cos he had to have some cover, and he didn't rate him strongly enough to give him much time v Ireland. That said, its publicly quite cruel......but its pro sport; he'd have been berated had he not given him a cap or two. He clearly rates the others higher- one hopes Dunn asked what he needed to do, and Eddie answered. Or even proferred the advice proactively. So whilst at a human level, it had some pathos in being seen to be desperate to get on, in objective terms he knows where he stand, and knows Eddie's stance in it being a tough school to break into. He can go the way of Hepburn (who is playing his socks off...) and Moon, or can figure out a way to get into contention for a match day squad again. There will be injuries etc.

Epaminondas Pules wrote:Interesting lineup. Missing Liam Williams is a big blow and a lot of responsibility on that midfield, who both could potentially have worn the other shirt. That makes for a bit of extra spice. Tough ask on Botham, but Lewis-Hughes looks a real goon 'un.

Banquo wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Banquo wrote: quite rightly. He is so good in the loose it nearly makes up for it.

It is one of those things that sticks regardless of what he does. There was a stats last season that showed he had the best lineout percentage in the prem for the last three years. Obviously there is more to the lineout that the hooker, but his stats are superior to his competition. When it does go awry the comments always round back to it been his Achilles heel.

That's not to say it's perfect, but his perceived throwing wobbles are not as closely aligned with reality.

In my statistically meaningless dip test of watching all Exeter's big matches, he's missing one or two big throws every time. Confirmation bias city.

p/d wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:Interesting lineup. Missing Liam Williams is a big blow and a lot of responsibility on that midfield, who both could potentially have worn the other shirt. That makes for a bit of extra spice. Tough ask on Botham, but Lewis-Hughes looks a real goon 'un.

bit tough on the lad

Banquo wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:I’m not suggesting he shouldn’t be replaced or he’s a better bet for the 23 than LCD, because we don’t have a clue whether he can even handle this level or not. I’d be annoyed if I were him and only got about 3 minutes to state my case.

I’m glad he was so happy to win his first cap, having it expressed so publicly that your boss has zero faith in you to do anything other than hold tackle bags in training and make up a body on the bench would piss me off. That’s what I’m saying.

Think you need to be a bit tougher than that in pro sport, and suspect its one of the tests that Eddie sets you. Resilience and mind set.

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:
It is one of those things that sticks regardless of what he does. There was a stats last season that showed he had the best lineout percentage in the prem for the last three years. Obviously there is more to the lineout that the hooker, but his stats are superior to his competition. When it does go awry the comments always round back to it been his Achilles heel.

That's not to say it's perfect, but his perceived throwing wobbles are not as closely aligned with reality.

In my statistically meaningless dip test of watching all Exeter's big matches, he's missing one or two big throws every time. Confirmation bias city.

If you go through their games he misses maybe 2 a game, which is pretty much standard for most hookers. But then you have to factor in the Exeter tend to have more lineouts as they kick the corners more than go for goal. Which would be a bit of an odd thing to do if your hooker has a wonky throw.

If you take their recent big games the Exeter lineout functioned at a measly 90%, which is for two semi-finals and two finals.

Oakboy wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:I’m not suggesting he shouldn’t be replaced or he’s a better bet for the 23 than LCD, because we don’t have a clue whether he can even handle this level or not. I’d be annoyed if I were him and only got about 3 minutes to state my case.

I’m glad he was so happy to win his first cap, having it expressed so publicly that your boss has zero faith in you to do anything other than hold tackle bags in training and make up a body on the bench would piss me off. That’s what I’m saying.

Think you need to be a bit tougher than that in pro sport, and suspect its one of the tests that Eddie sets you. Resilience and mind set.

I think the only other point is whether Jones has missed an opportunity to get a 3rd choice hooker, FH and SH lined up with a bit of match day experience, perhaps another fundamental part of pro sport. Farrell and Youngs rarely get injured, I suppose and George has a pretty good record. LCD is no stranger to the treatment table and Ford has had recent injury issues.

This autumn set of games is lower standard than normal even if there is a trophy. Georgia are rank poor. When else will opportunities occur?

I just hope nobody starts spouting about unlucky injury crises if things go pear-shaped at some point.

Banquo wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Banquo wrote: In my statistically meaningless dip test of watching all Exeter's big matches, he's missing one or two big throws every time. Confirmation bias city.

If you go through their games he misses maybe 2 a game, which is pretty much standard for most hookers. But then you have to factor in the Exeter tend to have more lineouts as they kick the corners more than go for goal. Which would be a bit of an odd thing to do if your hooker has a wonky throw.

If you take their recent big games the Exeter lineout functioned at a measly 90%, which is for two semi-finals and two finals.

yep, Yeandle always boosts the figures when he comes on . I'm mildly disagreeing only, he does have a rep for a reason, but then conformation bias kicks in.

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:
If you go through their games he misses maybe 2 a game, which is pretty much standard for most hookers. But then you have to factor in the Exeter tend to have more lineouts as they kick the corners more than go for goal. Which would be a bit of an odd thing to do if your hooker has a wonky throw.

If you take their recent big games the Exeter lineout functioned at a measly 90%, which is for two semi-finals and two finals.

yep, Yeandle always boosts the figures when he comes on . I'm mildly disagreeing only, he does have a rep for a reason, but then conformation bias kicks in.

He certainly had issues, which still serve as the foundation to that bias. Probably always will no matter what he does. The old 'you shag one sheep' analogy.

Banquo wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

Banquo wrote: Think you need to be a bit tougher than that in pro sport, and suspect its one of the tests that Eddie sets you. Resilience and mind set.

I think the only other point is whether Jones has missed an opportunity to get a 3rd choice hooker, FH and SH lined up with a bit of match day experience, perhaps another fundamental part of pro sport. Farrell and Youngs rarely get injured, I suppose and George has a pretty good record. LCD is no stranger to the treatment table and Ford has had recent injury issues.

This autumn set of games is lower standard than normal even if there is a trophy. Georgia are rank poor. When else will opportunities occur?

I just hope nobody starts spouting about unlucky injury crises if things go pear-shaped at some point.

so playing him against Georgia would therefore prove nothing?
To me this is a storm in a teacup, and if Dunn is smarting, then he probably has lost perspective, and its how he reacts that is the key.

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Oakboy wrote:
I think the only other point is whether Jones has missed an opportunity to get a 3rd choice hooker, FH and SH lined up with a bit of match day experience, perhaps another fundamental part of pro sport. Farrell and Youngs rarely get injured, I suppose and George has a pretty good record. LCD is no stranger to the treatment table and Ford has had recent injury issues.

This autumn set of games is lower standard than normal even if there is a trophy. Georgia are rank poor. When else will opportunities occur?

I just hope nobody starts spouting about unlucky injury crises if things go pear-shaped at some point.

so playing him against Georgia would therefore prove nothing?
To me this is a storm in a teacup, and if Dunn is smarting, then he probably has lost perspective, and its how he reacts that is the key.

Yep. Does he go I want some more of that or throw his toys out and have a little sulk. He strikes me as the former on the basis of how he's worked on his game over the last couple of seasons to become third choice.

fivepointer wrote:Good character Tom Dunn. He's worked his arse off getting bigger and stronger as he was asked to do. He'll be back.

p/d wrote:Yep. Great for character building being the only one left on the bench at the 75min mark as your team is whipping Georgia with two ‘tough’ weekends ahead.

I imagine, should he pen a book, that moment will become a mere footnote under the header ‘tosser’

p/d wrote:Yep. Great for character building being the only one left on the bench at the 75min mark as your team is whipping Georgia with two ‘tough’ weekends ahead.

I imagine, should he pen a book, that moment will become a mere footnote under the header ‘tosser’

Mikey Brown wrote:

p/d wrote:Yep. Great for character building being the only one left on the bench at the 75min mark as your team is whipping Georgia with two ‘tough’ weekends ahead.

I imagine, should he pen a book, that moment will become a mere footnote under the header ‘tosser’

Ha.

Yeah I don’t know why him being pissed off would be the same as him “throwing his toys out of the pram.”

Being given a clear message to go away and get better is great and all, but seems a bit pointless at the expense of actually seeing how he looks at this level when given a perfect opportunity. It’s not like they are mutually exclusive things anyway.

If it takes a year of waiting around, and perhaps an injury crisis at hooker before finally giving him a game, only to find out he looks totally lost I’d say this will have been quite a waste of time.

Mikey Brown wrote:Right.

Banquo wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:Right.

Mikey Brown wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:Right.

I mean is there any response that you won’t just interpret as throwing toys out the pram again?

Regarding time in camp, he’s been with England on and off quite a long time now hasn’t he? Eddie puts a lot of emphasis on that familiarity and knowledge of the setup, but I guess he’s still not doing something that EJ is after.