Autumn Series 2021: Scotland

[stevedog1980]

We will have to agree to disagree on this one Septic. I was in support of ZF when he was red carded against Wales and am similarly in support of Alaalatoa here. I know the situations aren't identical but they are similar in my mind.

I do believe he has anticipated a contest with ZF for the ball and set his height and momentum accordingly. If I imagine that ZF had taken the step forward that I had also expected him to make, he'd be over the ball and Alaalatoa would be coming in at the right height and position to clear him out. I think there were plenty of pieces of legitimate foul play and cheating throughout the game but as we all know, the competition at almost every ruck is not in line with the letter of the law from either side

[septic 9]

We will have to agree to disagree on this one Septic. I was in support of ZF when he was red carded against Wales and am similarly in support of Alaalatoa here. I know the situations aren't identical but they are similar in my mind.

I do believe he has anticipated a contest with ZF for the ball and set his height and momentum accordingly. If I imagine that ZF had taken the step forward that I had also expected him to make, he'd be over the ball and Alaalatoa would be coming in at the right height and position to clear him out. I think there were plenty of pieces of legitimate foul play and cheating throughout the game but as we all know, the competition at almost every ruck is not in line with the letter of the law from either side

disagree away. Fact is Alaalatoa launched himself, feet are off ground. Its obvious if you watch that clip. He was doing that whether he makes contact or not. The human torpedo was supposed to have been banned (it was always contrary to the laws) because it is inherently really dangerous. Just suppose the other Fagerson had been there, he would more than likely have copped a shoulder to the head. Players must stay on their feet. That is the law on the ruck. Alaalatoa did not, and did not try to. That this is tolerated is an abomination in the game

[whatisthejava]

Nothing wrong with Hoopers try just the clearout leading up to it.

Why do you not think that’s a double movement. Stops and then propels himself with his knees

[Mikey Brown]

That SA bench is horrible. Shit.

[whatisthejava]

Oz v Scotland was basically two very similar teams.

Sa v Scotland is two completely differing ideologies.

I think the ref and how much stoppages he allows the boks will have a huge influence on the game

[whatisthejava]

Angus gardener.

Would prefer a NH ref but it could be worse.

[Mr Mwenda]

Just watched that video, who'd be a ref these days with armchair idiots blowing everything up and setting it all to sombre music? Ridiculous to say there is nothing there at all.

[Mikey Brown]

I just had a quick look at their 'analytics' channel and it really is weird. I don't know how intentional it is but the tone of it, particularly with the music, is just bizarre.

I'm sure there are plenty of incorrect decisions in the referee compilation/lowlights videos but it's not a great look. The game is inherently kind of chaotic. We're all irritated by calls going against our teams but I just don't think a ref will ever catch everything. The pedantic nature of some of the calls highlighted in these videos, and then acting as if the Alaalatoa incident is totally clear cut is very strange.

One concerning thing is how using the endless stoppages and time-consuming TMO decisions to your benefit as a team, making the game incredibly slow and absolutely dire to watch, seems to be a legitimate SA tactic now.

[whatisthejava]

I really can’t decide how well we are going to do.

I think our wide game will really annoy the saffas and will make the centres work incredibly hard. I reckon our best chance of a try is when old man Stein comes on and he. Spends a lot of time running after our kicks.

Mind u how much we like giving penalties away we could easily find ourselves defending mauls in our 5m like and sooner or later we will concede 1-2

We have the Ozzie ref so that means lots and lots of turnover penalties for both teams.

[Mikey Brown]

Hogg (capt), McLean, Harris, Scott, Van der Merwe, Russell, Price; Schoeman, McInally, Z Fagerson, Skinner, Gilchrist, Haining, Ritchie, M Fagerson

Replacements: Ashman, Bhatti, Kebble, Hodgson, Watson, Horne, Hastings, Kinghorn

Wow. Matt Scott returns to start at 12 and Watson pushed to the bench for Haining. Wasn't expecting that. Form/fitness related or just a real kick in the pants for Watson and a win for the "too small" brigade?

I'm pleased for Scott and he could do well but I have to assume Johnson is injured? He offers a direct running threat but oh Jesus is that a clunky pair of handlers in the centre.

Kinghorn on the bench over Steyn is interesting. Excited to see if McLean can get any decent ball. Hogg is going to have to have his playmaking hat on.

I like Ashman but Rambo starting in place of Turner is the correct call.

[Cameo]

A few curve balls there. Not the team I would have picked but I am excited to see a few of those players. I wonder if the thinking on Watson is a) he's not played much so don't want to overload him too soon and b) he can come on and make an impact in the same way as SA's bench do.

[whatisthejava]

I think Toony is aware that we got beaten up last time and we need to be there or there about for the first 60 and hope that as the saffas tire we can start doing more.

This is really make it break for scott as he doesn’t really fit the toony mould and he could easily drop out of rWC slightly possibles. I’ve always liked him as a player

[whatisthejava]

And let’s be honest Johnson has an invisibility cloak where refs don’t see any offence against him

[Cameo]

I am happy McLean I'd getting a start but on the other hand I would like them to tell Darcy he is first choice and stick with him. He was a bit over eager last week but I think he is one of our best players. Through injuries, his brother's accident, and selection, he never quite seems to get a consistent run.

[switchskier]

Haining? I really just don't see it with this guy. Seemingly neither does Blair. But Tony seems obsessed with getting him involved.

More broadly I reckon that SA are just a bad match up for us, in the same way that Ireland are. But we don't have the players to go man on man at their game, so trying is a closing proposition I reckon.

[Mikey Brown]

We just don’t produce those big heavy bastards in the backrow. I sort of get Townsends angle but he is so inconsistent and often just doesn’t look fit enough. Then tends to have a stormer right at the cusp of being ditched forever. I imagine GT partly just wants a big lump available on Finn’s shoulder to take some of the heat.

D’Arcy is a weird one. So talented but such a stop/start beginning to his international career. Agree about his over eagerness but we often lack that fire and energy in general, he brings something different, and not getting a proper run of games can’t help.

I don’t know what McLean’s all round game is like. I’d hate for him to get beasted by SA before he’s ready for a game at this level, at the same time as risking a big knock to Graham’s confidence.

[Cameo]

We just don’t produce those big heavy bastards in the backrow. I sort of get Townsends angle but he is so inconsistent and often just doesn’t look fit enough. Then tends to have a stormer right at the cusp of being ditched forever. I imagine GT partly just wants a big lump available on Finn’s shoulder to take some of the heat.

D’Arcy is a weird one. So talented but such a stop/start beginning to his international career. Agree about his over eagerness but we often lack that fire and energy in general, he brings something different, and not getting a proper run of games can’t help.

I don’t know what McLean’s all round game is like. I’d hate for him to get beasted by SA before he’s ready for a game at this level, at the same time as risking a big knock to Graham’s confidence.

Haining is a weird one but generally I think he has been decent for Scotland. I don't think we should take it as a suggestion we are trying to beat SA at their own game. I would always pick Watson though.

Agree re McLean. Will be fun to see though. I always think Graham's all round game is underated. Surprisingly powerful, decent under (and attacking) a high ball, sometimes gets bounced in defence but equally is tenacious and covers well, and likes a surprise turnover.

[Cameo]

On Haining over Watson -

"Haining is back in the team because of his own virtues, the coach explained, but also because Watson has only played a couple of games this season after taking an extended break following the Lions tour – in part to nurse a groin strain. “Nick played a very physical team in Paris at the end of the Six Nations and performed well. I thought he came off the bench and did really well against Tonga. He was unlucky to miss out last week against the country where he was born. We think his style of play can really help us this week.

“On the other side it’s a case of what’s best for Hamish too. He hadn’t had any rugby before Tonga and we got him through 40 minutes, and he played well at the weekend. We have to have a view on where he is after so little rugby. We also believe he can make a big impact sometime in the second half or earlier if he has to. But this game is likely to be decided by how well the teams play in the last 20 minutes as much as the first 20.” "

[whatisthejava]

Toony has always flipped his team a bit. He knows full well that his first pick for Scotland team struggled against Ireland and could have lost by 14. He needs to develop a second style for Ireland and SA

We really don’t have a lot of 8s currently

Bradbury can’t get passed Richie or mata
Haining can’t get passed mata
Fagerson has it locked in Glasgow
Bayliss is a 6
Skinner could be a short term answer but is stuck at second row until Gray and Cummings come back

I’m surprised that Stein and Rufus didn’t switch for the last two weeks

[Cameo]

Has Skinner ever shown a real propensity for 8? I have nothing against him but he always seems to me to be a hard working second row who can play 6 rather than a big ball carrying 8. I just don't get how he would be picked there unless there were several injuries.

[Big D]

Toony has always flipped his team a bit. He knows full well that his first pick for Scotland team struggled against Ireland and could have lost by 14. He needs to develop a second style for Ireland and SA

We really don’t have a lot of 8s currently

Bradbury can’t get passed Richie or mata
Haining can’t get passed mata
Fagerson has it locked in Glasgow
Bayliss is a 6
Skinner could be a short term answer but is stuck at second row until Gray and Cummings come back

I’m surprised that Stein and Rufus didn’t switch for the last two weeks

Skinner isn't stuck anywhere. He is a second row who can cover back row. That's how he and his club consider him.

Gray and Cummings are rightfully considered out best but Skinner has started big finals and he and GG have started the last two big wins and seem to have a decent partnership.

[Mikey Brown]

Has Skinner ever shown a real propensity for 8? I have nothing against him but he always seems to me to be a hard working second row who can play 6 rather than a big ball carrying 8. I just don't get how he would be picked there unless there were several injuries.

I feel like I've seen this mentioned on here before but I don't know where the idea came from. Not aware of him ever actually playing there, though he is big, mobile and has good ball skills so I could see the appeal. I'd guess he needs to keep a considerable amount of weight on to be a (pretty much) full time lock so I don't know how that would work with a transition to 8.

I can't imagine any reason Exeter would want to move him there.

[General Zod]

Has Skinner ever shown a real propensity for 8? I have nothing against him but he always seems to me to be a hard working second row who can play 6 rather than a big ball carrying 8. I just don't get how he would be picked there unless there were several injuries.

Was it Rob Baxter who said he saw him as an 8, long term? I think when he first came on the international scene, that was mentioned, but I haven’t seen him at 8 too much for Exeter since then.

[Big D]

From last autumn;
"I play in a few positions and I don’t want to be bracketed as that sort of player who is jack of all trades, master of none,” he said. “I’m trying to push for the second-row position.

“The guys ahead of me in that position at the minute are playing really well, and there’s a lot of competition in and around all positions, really. But I’m looking to go for the second row, and all I can do is keep trying to push when I get a chance to come off the bench."

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-un ... 039071?amp

[septic 9]

I feel like I've seen this mentioned on here before but I don't know where the idea came from. Not aware of him ever actually playing there, though he is big, mobile and has good ball skills so I could see the appeal. I'd guess he needs to keep a considerable amount of weight on to be a (pretty much) full time lock so I don't know how that would work with a transition to 8.

I can't imagine any reason Exeter would want to move him there.

its come up before, probably few times on here and many times elsewhere.
Skinner was age group back row - for England. He has played at 6 over several seasons a few times for Exeter, once at 8 recently IIRC. But they see him as a lock, as he does himself.
Watching him IMHO what I see is a big athletic lock. Who would be a bit if a lumbering back row at international level. Yes he would "do a turn" sort of thing, but that should be after a couple of injuries during a game, not as a selection

I remember a very young Wagga playing 6 for Gala and being outstanding. as he filled out and matured, he became a lock. Some always hankered to see him at 6 to add bulk to the pack, and because he would offer the occasional one handed offload. And it happened a couple of times for Scotland, the result was always the same - he lacked the pace, acceleration and nimble footed defending to play 6 so was just another flat footed pillar for the opposition to run around. Hadden went for it. Hadden was a fool

Skinner is a better fit than Wagga but we have several better options at 6 than Skinner