RugbyRebels

normanski wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 10:29 pm

UKHamlet wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 10:03 pm Well that was easy

A real learning lesson for the squad which should stand them in good stead for the Australia game. Would be good if Fiji vent their spleen against Oz and kick the sh*t out of them.

I’m absolutely watching that game. It should be a cracker

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:35 pm

Sourdust wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 10:57 pm

UKHamlet wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 10:53 pm Fiji were supposed to win that game. They nearly did but in sport nearly is not enough. Wales did enough over the eighty to win. It should have been more comfortable but again in sport should have doesn't often win games. I'm relatively happy to win dirty and at the same time we played some really good rugby against a confident side coming of the back of crushing England at Twickenham. Fiji will get the plaudits from the Wales haters, but we got the W and that's all that matters.

Every word of that.

Lap up the hate, guys, this is what winning feels like.

JFC, look at these stats...

https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/matchstats ... gue=164205

The Fijians will feel a bit aggrieved at the difference in speed at which the yellow came out for both teams, also one of those disallowed tries. But then he ignored Fijians popping up in scrums and was fairly pissed off at us at the end (and who can blame him?).

Anyway who cares about that, we won. We built a big enough cushion that even our inevitable composure jettison wasn't enough to lose the match.

Crazy stats. Crazy to win with so little possession and territory. We defended to victory. Who was MOTM? Should have been Tompkins - he made two tries. Jesus, Rowlands, 27 tackles, none missed, immense. Sanjay had a great game too (if we ignore that kick at the end).

He also
Missed loss of sealing off by the Fijians.

Their yellow was a clear cut yellow, that rolling maul was gathering momentum and not far from the try line. It could have been a penalty try.

But we should have had a yellow much earlier too. And probably a second again for collective penalties.

Sourdust wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:07 am

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:35 pm
The Fijians will feel a bit aggrieved at the difference in speed at which the yellow came out for both teams,

Not just the Fijians - this is the point that's driving me nuts in all the online whingeing.

Tagitagivalu pulled down a rolling maul. That's a straight yellow. It's irrelevant how many pens Wales had conceded up to that point. Domachowski was yellowed for the very next technical infringement, in accordance with the warning Wales had been given.

There's a much better case, IMO, for a second persistent infringement YC in the dying minutes. We were lucky there. I also think the "double-movement" call was... marginal, at best.

But FFS the amount of "biased ref screws Fiji" bumgravy is off the scale. A ref who is biased in favour of a particular team generally doesn't award 17 penalties against said team... or is that just me?

Yeah that felt harsh but it was technically correct. He was tackled and then propelled himself forward.

both fijis trys at the end their hooker come out of the scrum under scrum pressure..... pen Wales. Stopped us mid attack while playing advantage to sin bin their 7 too. They were flying over some rucks and mauls..... but poor pluck Fiji eh. Ref was bad full stop and not just for Fiji

Tuco Ramirez wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 8:39 am both fijis trys at the end their hooker come out of the scrum under scrum pressure..... pen Wales. Stopped us mid attack while playing advantage to sin bin their 7 too. They were flying over some rucks and mauls..... but poor pluck Fiji eh. Ref was bad full stop and not just for Fiji

The media were dying for a Fiji win so they could pontificate on wales decline, etc. happy to have disappointed them

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:35 pm

Sourdust wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 10:57 pm

UKHamlet wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 10:53 pm Fiji were supposed to win that game. They nearly did but in sport nearly is not enough. Wales did enough over the eighty to win. It should have been more comfortable but again in sport should have doesn't often win games. I'm relatively happy to win dirty and at the same time we played some really good rugby against a confident side coming of the back of crushing England at Twickenham. Fiji will get the plaudits from the Wales haters, but we got the W and that's all that matters.

Every word of that.

Lap up the hate, guys, this is what winning feels like.

JFC, look at these stats...

https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/matchstats ... gue=164205

The Fijians will feel a bit aggrieved at the difference in speed at which the yellow came out for both teams, also one of those disallowed tries. But then he ignored Fijians popping up in scrums and was fairly pissed off at us at the end (and who can blame him?).

Anyway who cares about that, we won. We built a big enough cushion that even our inevitable composure jettison wasn't enough to lose the match.

Crazy stats. Crazy to win with so little possession and territory. We defended to victory. Who was MOTM? Should have been Tompkins - he made two tries. Jesus, Rowlands, 27 tackles, none missed, immense. Sanjay had a great game too (if we ignore that kick at the end).

Tompkins missed 6 tackles and conceded ground every time they ran the ball at him giving them front foot ball, he did do some good things but he was porous in defence, Rowlands was easily my MOM, Biggar was actually awarded it, North had a very strong game and it was good to see the wingers get on the score sheet.

I've mixed emotions about his game, the ref was appalling, he just kept giving penaltiers to whoever was behind at the time to try and make the game close, it made for an exciting finish but 17 penalties, really?

Telling to see that that our game management went out of the windows when Biggar departed.

Our composure in latter stages of a match is a bit concerning. Biggar went and we seemed to lack focus, although a few players were forgetting the game plan well before that.

Numbers wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:30 am I've mixed emotions about his game, the ref was appalling, he just kept giving penaltiers to whoever was behind at the time to try and make the game close, it made for an exciting finish but 17 penalties, really?

I mean, you did cheat like bastards on your own line. It is very much a case of congratulations for doing it so effectively, as some of those interventions were definite try-savers (Biggar tackling the scrum-half from off-side when there was a three-man overlap, Liam Williams diving over to kill quick ruck ball 5m out after a break, etc). Carley was utterly dire (to the surprise of none of the EMB) and missed a tonne from both sides (including giving one sealing off penalty against Fiji and then regarding that as having filled his quota for the night), but I don't know that many of your 17 penalties were particularly out of line.

I feel I should say congrats on the win though - no-one can doubt that you worked bloody hard for it and here's to your lot going on and knocking Australia out of the competition after Fiji beat them.

Puja

Oh yeah, to cap it all, no injuries (as far as I know). After a Fiji match. Can't complain about that.

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:53 am

Numbers wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:30 am I've mixed emotions about his game, the ref was appalling, he just kept giving penaltiers to whoever was behind at the time to try and make the game close, it made for an exciting finish but 17 penalties, really?

I mean, you did cheat like bastards on your own line. It is very much a case of congratulation for doing it so effectively, as some of those interventions were definite try-savers (Biggar tackling the scrum-half from off-side when there was a three-man overlap, Liam Williams diving over to kill quick ruck ball 5m out after a break, etc). Carley was utterly dire (to the surprise of none of the EMB) and missed a tonne from both sides (including giving one sealing off penalty against Fiji and then regarding that as having filled his quote for the night), but I don't know that many of your 17 penalties were particularly out of line.

I feel I should say congrats on the win though - no-one can doubt that you worked bloody hard for it and here's to your lot going on and knocking Australia out of the competition after Fiji beat them.

Puja

Agree completely, how there wasn't a yellow card I'll never know, and then he cards Fiji for a single offence?

Some of the penalties given were definitely dodgy for both sides, he is an awful ref that's for sure. We have Karl Dickson for the next game, thankfully it's against Portugal, then we have Barnes for Aus and then Reynal for Georgia, not sure who is reffing the knockout stages, hopefully they will have whittled out some of the shitter refs by then.

Fiji Yellow was collapsing a try bound maul.... always a yellow and not a technical offence

I'm happy to concede that we got the better side of a wobbly ref.

What I'm not happy to do, is apologize for that FINALLY happening to us in a crucial match.

The magnification is ridiculous. Wales should have had a YC one or two penalties sooner than Domachowski. It's highly arguable that we should have been given a second; I think Biggar's offside gets a YC 7 or 8 times out of 10. Fiji were not being pinged for all manner of ruck infringements. What's worse - pinging a transgressing side constantly without giving a yellow, or not pinging them at all? And as already stated, Tagitagivalu's YC was an absolute stonewaller, and arguably should have been a PT - although that ultimately didn't matter.

I guess we just have to lean into being the bad guys this time, and take our turn smirking "look at the scoreboard". So be it.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:35 am Our composure in latter stages of a match is a bit concerning. Biggar went and we seemed to lack focus, although a few players were forgetting the game plan well before that.

It is a concern, but at least this time we did hold out, unlike the Italy, Georgia and Australia games last year. I don't think though that being berated by Biggar for an hour is a long term strategy for good game management!

Thinking about it though, the control up until then had been good. Wales managed to stop Fiji scoring for the best part of an hour, and even in the chaos of the closing 10 minutes it left Fiji with too much to do ( just). Gatland teams were usually pretty good at dealing with fight backs, but this is still a team in transition.

pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 11:53 am

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:35 am Our composure in latter stages of a match is a bit concerning. Biggar went and we seemed to lack focus, although a few players were forgetting the game plan well before that.

It is a concern, but at least this time we did hold out, unlike the Italy, Georgia and Australia games last year. I don't think though that being berated by Biggar for an hour is a long term strategy for good game management!

Thinking about it though, the control up until then had been good. Wales managed to stop Fiji scoring for the best part of an hour, and even in the chaos of the closing 10 minutes it left Fiji with too much to do ( just). Gatland teams were usually pretty good at dealing with fight backs, but this is still a team in transition.

What bothers me I suppose is that even with Biggar off, we still had Tomos Williams, North and Liam Williams on the field who have a lot of caps between them. I’d probably add Tompkins to that list too. Yet some of the non composure was most evident in the senior guys.

Sourdust wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 11:44 am I'm happy to concede that we got the better side of a wobbly ref.

What I'm not happy to do, is apologize for that FINALLY happening to us in a crucial match.

The magnification is ridiculous. Wales should have had a YC one or two penalties sooner than Domachowski. It's highly arguable that we should have been given a second; I think Biggar's offside gets a YC 7 or 8 times out of 10. Fiji were not being pinged for all manner of ruck infringements. What's worse - pinging a transgressing side constantly without giving a yellow, or not pinging them at all? And as already stated, Tagitagivalu's YC was an absolute stonewaller, and arguably should have been a PT - although that ultimately didn't matter.

I guess we just have to lean into being the bad guys this time, and take our turn smirking "look at the scoreboard". So be it.

Totall agree. How many times have we been left fuming? Basically, we won, haters can fuck off.

We can take a lot of positives from the game.

Our defence, so often a weakness in recent years, was vastly improved and to make 250 tackles, many of them chop tackles, halted the Flying Fijians before they could get momentum.

Wales scored three tries via the backs and one from a driving maul and underlines how our attack has started to improve.

We have momentum and our next match is far easier, so much so, that Gatland can rest key players and give the second stringers a run out, but always remembering that we need maximum points.

This was a must win game and Wales delivered. We took maximum points to give ourselves a great chance now of going through, possibly as group winners.

Numbers wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:30 am

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:35 pm

Sourdust wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 10:57 pm

Every word of that.

Lap up the hate, guys, this is what winning feels like.

JFC, look at these stats...

https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/matchstats ... gue=164205

The Fijians will feel a bit aggrieved at the difference in speed at which the yellow came out for both teams, also one of those disallowed tries. But then he ignored Fijians popping up in scrums and was fairly pissed off at us at the end (and who can blame him?).

Anyway who cares about that, we won. We built a big enough cushion that even our inevitable composure jettison wasn't enough to lose the match.

Crazy stats. Crazy to win with so little possession and territory. We defended to victory. Who was MOTM? Should have been Tompkins - he made two tries. Jesus, Rowlands, 27 tackles, none missed, immense. Sanjay had a great game too (if we ignore that kick at the end).

Tompkins missed 6 tackles and conceded ground every time they ran the ball at him giving them front foot ball, he did do some good things but he was porous in defence, Rowlands was easily my MOM, Biggar was actually awarded it, North had a very strong game and it was good to see the wingers get on the score sheet.

I've mixed emotions about his game, the ref was appalling, he just kept giving penalties to whoever was behind at the time to try and make the game close, it made for an exciting finish but 17 penalties, really?

Telling to see that that our game management went out of the windows when Biggar departed.

I wonder how much of our apparent end of match loss of composure is due to this (and the idea that Wales aren't a top team, they shouldn't be that far ahead). (And obviously genuine fuck-ups like Domachowski's).

But one thing we shouldn't be doing is going out of our way to piss off the ref by walking slooooooooowly back for the kick off just to use up a few seconds.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 4:13 pm

Numbers wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:30 am

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:35 pm
The Fijians will feel a bit aggrieved at the difference in speed at which the yellow came out for both teams, also one of those disallowed tries. But then he ignored Fijians popping up in scrums and was fairly pissed off at us at the end (and who can blame him?).

Anyway who cares about that, we won. We built a big enough cushion that even our inevitable composure jettison wasn't enough to lose the match.

Crazy stats. Crazy to win with so little possession and territory. We defended to victory. Who was MOTM? Should have been Tompkins - he made two tries. Jesus, Rowlands, 27 tackles, none missed, immense. Sanjay had a great game too (if we ignore that kick at the end).

Tompkins missed 6 tackles and conceded ground every time they ran the ball at him giving them front foot ball, he did do some good things but he was porous in defence, Rowlands was easily my MOM, Biggar was actually awarded it, North had a very strong game and it was good to see the wingers get on the score sheet.

I've mixed emotions about his game, the ref was appalling, he just kept giving penalties to whoever was behind at the time to try and make the game close, it made for an exciting finish but 17 penalties, really?

Telling to see that that our game management went out of the windows when Biggar departed.

I wonder how much of our apparent end of match loss of composure is due to this (and the idea that Wales aren't a top team, they shouldn't be that far ahead). (And obviously genuine fuck-ups like Domachowski's).

But one thing we shouldn't be doing is going out of our way to piss off the ref by walking slooooooooowly back for the kick off just to use up a few seconds.

That, and the free kick given at the line out between the 10m and the Fiji 22, for a slow formation and throw in. Everyone could see a free kick was going to be given if they didnt hurry up, except the players apparently. If they'd taken it, caught the ball and kept it tight for a minute or so it probably would have been enough to avoid the nail biter at the very end.

We
Managed the ref very poorly. A driving maul went static and he cried use it before we decided to keep on driving. If the ref shouts to use the ball then do so.

I have little to add to the summation the last posts about the brain "sleep"at the end. Gatland sorted it out before hopefully he can focus them again. We are short of clear leaders ...hopefully they take that on-board in the debrief.

Changing the subject from reffing and game management

Beard is pwp

MrK wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:23 pm Changing the subject from reffing and game management

Beard is pwp

Yep

MrK wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:23 pm Changing the subject from reffing and game management

Beard is pwp

From undroppable to unfathomable in just over two years.

Maybe he's still doing lots of invisible stuff? Because the visible stuff stopped quite some time ago.

Sourdust wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 3:44 am

MrK wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:23 pm Changing the subject from reffing and game management

Beard is pwp

From undroppable to unfathomable in just over two years.

Maybe he's still doing lots of invisible stuff? Because the visible stuff stopped quite some time ago.

Beard's almost exactly the same size as South Africa's RG Snyman, but my god did Snyman make his presence felt when he came on against Scotland. Beard's presence was like a ghost in a scrum cap, drifting between the 22 and the hereafter.

MrK wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:23 pm Changing the subject from reffing and game management

Beard is pwp

Test Lion - Gatland rates him and thats good enough for me He is a unit, good line out forward. makes double figure tackles and scrummages well. Don't believe the stuff you read