Insouciant wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 3:31 pm
The one thing that does occur to me if Smith is 15 and Farrell is 10 is that Farrell may have been picked for his defensive abilities. Yes this might where we tbh. If you have Ford and Smith starting 10/15 respectively, then Fiji would have two weak targets to run at. Whilst Ford doesn't miss so many tackles, Fiji would likely break the gain-line often if they are both there. It also means whoever is next to them in defence might have an eye on them, and leave gaps elsewhere. If Smith is at 15 as someone who might spark the attack, then maybe he's more hide-able defensively.
Whilst I'd rather see Ford at 10 and Smith on the bench, maybe Stygian Binmen thinks that against a side with such a powerful running threat that Farrell is the best placed of the three to 'shoulder' (boom boom) a defensive burden .
That was the line of thinking in the Times.
There's a collective sidelining of the fact that Smith really hasn't ever been tested as a full back.
Insouciant wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 3:31 pm
The one thing that does occur to me if Smith is 15 and Farrell is 10 is that Farrell may have been picked for his defensive abilities. Yes this might where we tbh. If you have Ford and Smith starting 10/15 respectively, then Fiji would have two weak targets to run at. Whilst Ford doesn't miss so many tackles, Fiji would likely break the gain-line often if they are both there. It also means whoever is next to them in defence might have an eye on them, and leave gaps elsewhere. If Smith is at 15 as someone who might spark the attack, then maybe he's more hide-able defensively.
Whilst I'd rather see Ford at 10 and Smith on the bench, maybe Stygian Binmen thinks that against a side with such a powerful running threat that Farrell is the best placed of the three to 'shoulder' (boom boom) a defensive burden .
Why is Smith regarded as a defensive weakness? Like any other player (including Owen Farrell) he will miss some tackles, but I've seen him put in many strong hits. Likewise (as you say) Ford, though unspectacular, usually manages to get his man. This is just another example on the on-going rugby myth that smallish blokes can't tackle (tell that to Faff deKlerk). It's all the more annoying because Farrell himself is nothing special as a defender, missing quite a high percentage and showing poor technique. In any case, a 10 (or any other player) should be selected on the basis of his overall game (running, passing, kicking, etc..), not a single aspect (especially defending, if we are talking about a fly half). I'd say that both Ford and Smith are much better rounded footballers than Faz and more likely to engineer tries for the team.
Spiffy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 4:09 pm This is just another example on the on-going rugby myth that smallish blokes can't tackle (tell that to Faff deKlerk).
In any case, a 10 (or any other player) should be selected on the basis of his overall game (running, passing, kicking, etc..), not a single aspect (especially defending, if we are talking about a fly half).
Whilst both these points are absolutely true, you are aware that this is the England Rugby team we're talking about?
morepork wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 4:25 pm
England should wear black arm bands because everyone on here is in mourning.
We CAN remember when our team played rugby worth watching but being an England fan is desperate at present. Before this era it was a long time since we were the worst home nation, for example (in terms of watchable performance anyway).
Insouciant wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 3:31 pm
The one thing that does occur to me if Smith is 15 and Farrell is 10 is that Farrell may have been picked for his defensive abilities. Yes this might where we tbh. If you have Ford and Smith starting 10/15 respectively, then Fiji would have two weak targets to run at. Whilst Ford doesn't miss so many tackles, Fiji would likely break the gain-line often if they are both there. It also means whoever is next to them in defence might have an eye on them, and leave gaps elsewhere. If Smith is at 15 as someone who might spark the attack, then maybe he's more hide-able defensively.
Whilst I'd rather see Ford at 10 and Smith on the bench, maybe Stygian Binmen thinks that against a side with such a powerful running threat that Farrell is the best placed of the three to 'shoulder' (boom boom) a defensive burden .
Why is Smith regarded as a defensive weakness? Like any other player (including Owen Farrell) he will miss some tackles, but I've seen him put in many strong hits. Likewise (as you say) Ford, though unspectacular, usually manages to get his man. This is just another example on the on-going rugby myth that smallish blokes can't tackle (tell that to Faff deKlerk). It's all the more annoying because Farrell himself is nothing special as a defender, missing quite a high percentage and showing poor technique. In any case, a 10 (or any other player) should be selected on the basis of his overall game (running, passing, kicking, etc..), not a single aspect (especially defending, if we are talking about a fly half). I'd say that both Ford and Smith are much better rounded footballers than Faz and more likely to engineer tries for the team.
It's all Johnny Wilkinson's fault!
Does anyone in France worry about Jalibert's defence, or Ntamack's (though he's solid as an ex 12 tbf)?
Insouciant wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 3:31 pm
The one thing that does occur to me if Smith is 15 and Farrell is 10 is that Farrell may have been picked for his defensive abilities. Yes this might where we tbh. If you have Ford and Smith starting 10/15 respectively, then Fiji would have two weak targets to run at. Whilst Ford doesn't miss so many tackles, Fiji would likely break the gain-line often if they are both there. It also means whoever is next to them in defence might have an eye on them, and leave gaps elsewhere. If Smith is at 15 as someone who might spark the attack, then maybe he's more hide-able defensively.
Whilst I'd rather see Ford at 10 and Smith on the bench, maybe Stygian Binmen thinks that against a side with such a powerful running threat that Farrell is the best placed of the three to 'shoulder' (boom boom) a defensive burden .
Of the three flyhalfs Marcus Smith has the best tackle technique, probably by some distance. He's rather proficient at the chop style tackle. Ford tends to limpet onto the ball and act as a nuisance until someone bigger arrives. Farrell is the most dominant tackler but also the most likely to get carded for a bad tackle. Don't really fancy trying to defend against Fiji's attack a man down.
Given Ford drops into the backfield in defence (normally alongside Steward) so we could just have our two best kickers and our playmakers in the backfield looking to expose Fiji's kicking game or kick chase. Fiji don't often kick to compete so the impact of having those two back there wouldn't be overly problematic.
jngf wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 2:33 pm
It’s a bit like wondering how could anyone still defend bojo after stinking out 10 Downing Street during a national crisis
Turns out the England set up is populated by Nadine Dorries impersonators. That may explain the performances.
People who’ve written more books than they’ve read
Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 8:38 am
I've said it several times - we will see no real progress/development till BOTH Farrell and Ford are off the international scene.
On the one hand, apparently/reportedly, the more skilful FH, Ford, does not get enough out of the other players.
On the other hand, apparently/reportedly, Farrell, the less skilful FH, gets wonderful response from the other players - even though we cannot understand that and match performances/results rarely (if ever) reflect it.
Smith did not set the world alight when he had a few games at FH but he looks to me to be capable of more than he ever showed given the right selection around him, the right match strategy and the total, permanent absence from consideration of Farrell and Ford.
Agree with this. Let's not forget that both Farrell and Ford have been touted for the last few years as 'coaches' within the England camp and key players when determining strategy. They are as much to blame for our play style any other coaches
