RugbyRebels

Timbo wrote:I think we need to brace ourselves for the strong possibility that, far from losing his place in the team, Farrell will be captaining England at the next World Cup. I watched a Q&A with Eddie just the other day and he said; Farrell is one of the best he's ever coached ( name checked Farrell as 1 of the 4 best), Farrell would get in the AB's team and that Farrell will go down as an all time great (he also said the exact same things about Billy).

What does Eddie say about Ford? Is he implying that he's happy with both at 10/12?

Oakboy wrote:

Timbo wrote:I think we need to brace ourselves for the strong possibility that, far from losing his place in the team, Farrell will be captaining England at the next World Cup. I watched a Q&A with Eddie just the other day and he said; Farrell is one of the best he's ever coached ( name checked Farrell as 1 of the 4 best), Farrell would get in the AB's team and that Farrell will go down as an all time great (he also said the exact same things about Billy).

What does Eddie say about Ford? Is he implying that he's happy with both at 10/12?

I don't know. My feeling is that Ford-Farrell is here to stay unless Eddie is presented with a truly compelling reason to change...I don't think Te'o, for all his qualities, has enough to change EJ's mind.

I can't say the Lions really grabbed me this time around and didn't see much of it. I'm slightly unsure how Daly is looking as a winger. Is he just quietly being quite good or is he not really the same attacking force that he is as a centre/club player? I'm very happy to be wrong on this as I think he has the goods. Would love to see him able to pick his angles into the outside channels from fullback though.

Mikey Brown wrote:I can't say the Lions really grabbed me this time around and didn't see much of it. I'm slightly unsure how Daly is looking as a winger. Is he just quietly being quite good or is he not really the same attacking force that he is as a centre/club player? I'm very happy to be wrong on this as I think he has the goods. Would love to see him able to pick his angles into the outside channels from fullback though.

you can equally, if not better do that from blindside wing, and he had been doing that for England. Lions tour seemed a bit more like he was told to stay in post.

Banquo wrote:

Raggs wrote:

fivepointer wrote:He was dreadful. saved by his impeccable - and its fair to say, vitally important - goal kicking. The pass to Watson after taking a quick tap was shamefully bad.
Elsewhere George was good, though loses a point for a couple of crooked l/o throws.
Enjoyed Watsons performance. Daly was fine. Mako far better than last week and Itoje underlined his all round quality.
Lawes again looked good off the bench.

Would his kicking have been as vitally important had he not screwed up the rest? Sexton isn't exactly a poor kicker.

The main difference between Farrell and Ford, is that when Ford has a bad game and a good one, he blows hot and cold, when Farrell has a good game after a bad one, it shows that he has great mental resilience and is a true test match animal. Barnes once went on about Farrell only missing the non-important kicks in one euro game (how Farrell knew they weren't important only 10 minutes into the game, I don't know). He's one of those players who's fortunate to be judged via different standards.

This. And I just don't understand it- its not like he is even a likeable bloke.

It is strange. He's turned into the poster boy of the NH game with neither the game nor the looks to carry it off. Of the match reports I've seen today he's the main photo for the BBC plus the next photo in the article, plus he's in the headline as kicking the difficulty kick to draw the match, he's also the main photo for the RFU and Lions Facebook posts. None of the strap lines under said photos allude to the fact he was probably our worst player.
It's a strange one. My only rationale is that everyone misses Wilkinson and he's the closest we have to him.

Banquo wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:I can't say the Lions really grabbed me this time around and didn't see much of it. I'm slightly unsure how Daly is looking as a winger. Is he just quietly being quite good or is he not really the same attacking force that he is as a centre/club player? I'm very happy to be wrong on this as I think he has the goods. Would love to see him able to pick his angles into the outside channels from fullback though.

you can equally, if not better do that from blindside wing, and he had been doing that for England. Lions tour seemed a bit more like he was told to stay in post.

I'm not sure we're really talking about the same kind of attacking here. I think like many outside-breakers he really benefits from having a man outside to hold defences, which surely doesn't crop up as much when you're the winger.

I've really liked what I've seen from him for England so far, but I wouldn't say we're seeing the same, searing breaking game as we do from him at Wasps, no?

I find it weird and sort of depressing that Nowell has played in a Lions test.

Banquo wrote:

Mr Mwenda wrote:Farrell was poor, but some of the hyperbole here....

what do you mean? As you said, he was poor....and that's what is being said here.....

I think the queue of people complaining madly is a bit over the top personally. It's not his fault Barnes and co. go on about him. The EMB has their people they don't like and no matter how many winning games they're a part of it is always despite the disliked player.

I wouldn't be surprised if continues to improve - he got better last year but has now been shown the pressure that his skills need to deliver under. Hopefully this will just spur him on. I reckon Ford and Farrell fighting for 10 jersey is a good place to be.

Mikey Brown wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:I can't say the Lions really grabbed me this time around and didn't see much of it. I'm slightly unsure how Daly is looking as a winger. Is he just quietly being quite good or is he not really the same attacking force that he is as a centre/club player? I'm very happy to be wrong on this as I think he has the goods. Would love to see him able to pick his angles into the outside channels from fullback though.

you can equally, if not better do that from blindside wing, and he had been doing that for England. Lions tour seemed a bit more like he was told to stay in post.

I'm not sure we're really talking about the same kind of attacking here. I think like many outside-breakers he really benefits from having a man outside to hold defences, which surely doesn't crop up as much when you're the winger.

I've really liked what I've seen from him for England so far, but I wouldn't say we're seeing the same, searing breaking game as we do from him at Wasps, no?

I find it weird and sort of depressing that Nowell has played in a Lions test.

Daly and Watson have turned out to be a couple of good Lions wings, despite the odd blip. Just sorry that, on the whole tour, their midfielders were not able to engineer some ball plus open space for them. They got limited ball, and then with nowhere to go. Fair play to Daly for that monster penalty. Their back three mate, Liam Williams, was a mixed bag - generally pretty good in the first couple of tests but a little sloppy today.

Mikey Brown wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:I can't say the Lions really grabbed me this time around and didn't see much of it. I'm slightly unsure how Daly is looking as a winger. Is he just quietly being quite good or is he not really the same attacking force that he is as a centre/club player? I'm very happy to be wrong on this as I think he has the goods. Would love to see him able to pick his angles into the outside channels from fullback though.

you can equally, if not better do that from blindside wing, and he had been doing that for England. Lions tour seemed a bit more like he was told to stay in post.

I'm not sure we're really talking about the same kind of attacking here. I think like many outside-breakers he really benefits from having a man outside to hold defences, which surely doesn't crop up as much when you're the winger.

I've really liked what I've seen from him for England so far, but I wouldn't say we're seeing the same, searing breaking game as we do from him at Wasps, no?

I find it weird and sort of depressing that Nowell has played in a Lions test.

From what I've seen with England, he can do a couple of very useful things from the blindside wing in attack, that he couldn't do from 15- you raised the 15 hitting lines in the outside channels piece, and he could do that from the blindside wing too if needed; he's acted as a kind of third centre, an extra pair of hands behind screen say, and he has done the searing outside break bit too. I think he's going to be a very good winger if he sticks at it, gives you a great auxiliary full back and boot option, and can roam up and down and leave his post more often than if he were at 15.
I've not really seen him at 15, so can't comment whether he has the ability to hit the outside channel from deep, nor whether his positional play in defence is good enough.

Mr Mwenda wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Mr Mwenda wrote:Farrell was poor, but some of the hyperbole here....

what do you mean? As you said, he was poor....and that's what is being said here.....

I think the queue of people complaining madly is a bit over the top personally. It's not his fault Barnes and co. go on about him. The EMB has their people they don't like and no matter how many winning games they're a part of it is always despite the disliked player.

I wouldn't be surprised if continues to improve - he got better last year but has now been shown the pressure that his skills need to deliver under. Hopefully this will just spur him on. I reckon Ford and Farrell fighting for 10 jersey is a good place to be.

Most have acknowledged his improvement- as he should, given the investment in him; I thought and said he played well last week. He had a stinker today, and I find it incredibly frustrating how consistently he is over praised by the majority, if not all pundits, when his skill set is really average bt intl standards,

Average last week, pants today. Pressure kicks my arse, Daly had that and nailed it.

He ain't a 12. Generally neutralised our attacking threat out wide and in defence spent 80 mins trying to make a big hit rather than tackling the player.

Should have been yanked after the half hour mark.

p/d wrote:Average last week, pants today. Pressure kicks my arse, Daly had that and nailed it.

He ain't a 12. Generally neutralised our attacking threat out wide and in defence spent 80 mins trying to make a big hit rather than tackling the player.

Should have been yanked after the half hour mark.

Given Sexton''s ankle a move to 10 would've seemed more realistic.

Digby wrote:

p/d wrote:Average last week, pants today. Pressure kicks my arse, Daly had that and nailed it.

He ain't a 12. Generally neutralised our attacking threat out wide and in defence spent 80 mins trying to make a big hit rather than tackling the player.

Should have been yanked after the half hour mark.

Given Sexton''s ankle a move to 10 would've seemed more realistic.

Sexton played well for the whole game, ankle or not. He seemed to have had no ill effects and played out the second half with the bandage off. He could teach Faz a thing or two about comitted defence and nailing your man. As others have noted (and have done for some time on this board), there is not a lot to Farrell's game apart from his goal kicking (but yes - Daly's was the pressure kick today and has had little recognition.) Farrell's passing has improved (and needed to improve), but his defence is still mediocre at best, he really does lack pace for an international midfielder and his line kicking lacks range. For some reason he has caught the eye of English media pundits (most of whom haven't a clue), but certainly is an overrated player (like Warburton.)

Thought Sexton was ok, to be honest. A few mistakes i can remember and has to take some of the blame that the backs seldom clicked. A bit like during the 6 nations again.

Owen has this thing where people know that andy was a league legend (but most never saw him play league, just the close to retirement union version) and sort of try and project his dad on to him.

To be fair to owen this is entirely put upon him by the punditry.

Tbf I thought Warbs had an excellent game yest, and I'm not a particular fan. SOB has been the pick of the Lions backrow this series. Cane has been quietly annoying for the ABs (notwithstanding some annoying false calls from refs).

Beasties wrote:Tbf I thought Warbs had an excellent game yest, and I'm not a particular fan. SOB has been the pick of the Lions backrow this series. Cane has been quietly annoying for the ABs (notwithstanding some annoying false calls from refs).

SOB has been good but I was thinking Faletau really felt like he was glueing the pack together.

I think it's fair to say that all objectivity has been lost when you start to insinuate that Farrell's kicks for goal weren't 'pressure kicks'.

Timbo wrote:I think it's fair to say that all objectivity has been lost when you start to insinuate that Farrell's kicks for goal weren't 'pressure kicks'.

I agree (and I'm a big ford fan). I think they will both play for england until some one else comes through.

twitchy wrote:

Timbo wrote:I think it's fair to say that all objectivity has been lost when you start to insinuate that Farrell's kicks for goal weren't 'pressure kicks'.

I agree (and I'm a big ford fan). I think they will both play for england until some one else comes through.

I disagree and I have a preference for Farrell at 10 over Ford

twitchy wrote:

Timbo wrote:I think it's fair to say that all objectivity has been lost when you start to insinuate that Farrell's kicks for goal weren't 'pressure kicks'.

I agree (and I'm a big ford fan). I think they will both play for england until some one else comes through.

I'm with Twitchy on this. Assuming that Eddie sticks to his word re. resting the Lions players, we might see something different in the AIs, but it's Ford 10, Farrell 12 for the forseeable future.

I don't think there can be any argument that Farrell didn't play as well as he can on the Lions tour and I stand by my original comment that he was rubbish apart from the kicking yesterday.

He is generally much better than that, albeit not as good as the praise he gets would suggest he is.

Mr Mwenda wrote:

Beasties wrote:Tbf I thought Warbs had an excellent game yest, and I'm not a particular fan. SOB has been the pick of the Lions backrow this series. Cane has been quietly annoying for the ABs (notwithstanding some annoying false calls from refs).

SOB has been good but I was thinking Faletau really felt like he was glueing the pack together.

Warburton was very good yesterday and I hope Underhill or the Currys can develop to put in similarly good performances at the breakdown. O'Brien was very good in the first two tests but Faletau was excellent throughout. Arguably the best player on the tour IMO.

Scrumhead wrote:

twitchy wrote:

Timbo wrote:I think it's fair to say that all objectivity has been lost when you start to insinuate that Farrell's kicks for goal weren't 'pressure kicks'.

I agree (and I'm a big ford fan). I think they will both play for england until some one else comes through.

I'm with Twitchy on this. Assuming that Eddie sticks to his word re. resting the Lions players, we might see something different in the AIs, but it's Ford 10, Farrell 12 for the forseeable future.

I don't think there can be any argument that Farrell didn't play as well as he can on the Lions tour and I stand by my original comment that he was rubbish apart from the kicking yesterday.

He is generally much better than that, albeit not as good as the praise he gets would suggest he is.

Mr Mwenda wrote:

Beasties wrote:Tbf I thought Warbs had an excellent game yest, and I'm not a particular fan. SOB has been the pick of the Lions backrow this series. Cane has been quietly annoying for the ABs (notwithstanding some annoying false calls from refs).

SOB has been good but I was thinking Faletau really felt like he was glueing the pack together.

Warburton was very good yesterday and I hope Underhill or the Currys can develop to put in similarly good performances at the breakdown. O'Brien was very good in the first two tests but Faletau was excellent throughout. Arguably the best player on the tour IMO.

Not being flippant here but wondering what you saw from Faletau over the tests? I thought he was fairly quiet bar the superb finish in the second test.


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Interesting one. I felt he seemed to be quietly industrious, just seemed to be in the right place to keep things ticking and rarely making an error (one penalty conceded for holding on i remember was because the support lines were poor).

Scrumhead wrote:

twitchy wrote:

Timbo wrote:I think it's fair to say that all objectivity has been lost when you start to insinuate that Farrell's kicks for goal weren't 'pressure kicks'.

I agree (and I'm a big ford fan). I think they will both play for england until some one else comes through.

I'm with Twitchy on this. Assuming that Eddie sticks to his word re. resting the Lions players, we might see something different in the AIs, but it's Ford 10, Farrell 12 for the forseeable future.

I don't think there can be any argument that Farrell didn't play as well as he can on the Lions tour and I stand by my original comment that he was rubbish apart from the kicking yesterday.

He is generally much better than that, albeit not as good as the praise he gets would suggest he is.

Mr Mwenda wrote:

Beasties wrote:Tbf I thought Warbs had an excellent game yest, and I'm not a particular fan. SOB has been the pick of the Lions backrow this series. Cane has been quietly annoying for the ABs (notwithstanding some annoying false calls from refs).

SOB has been good but I was thinking Faletau really felt like he was glueing the pack together.

Warburton was very good yesterday and I hope Underhill or the Currys can develop to put in similarly good performances at the breakdown. O'Brien was very good in the first two tests but Faletau was excellent throughout. Arguably the best player on the tour IMO.

A pity Justin Tipuric did not get a crack at the ABs. Outstanding in every game he played. (I think I read somewhere he did not miss a tackle). Fast, intelligent and tough in the traditional openside mould.

Mr Mwenda wrote:Interesting one. I felt he seemed to be quietly industrious, just seemed to be in the right place to keep things ticking and rarely making an error (one penalty conceded for holding on i remember was because the support lines were poor).

Very much this. As a back row player myself, perhaps I'm paying more attention to wat the 6, u and 8 are doing? He was almost always in the right spot to make important interventions in defence and was useful in attack (not just for his try).