Re: Transfer gossip - sometimes even accurate (accidentally) - Season 2022/23
Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 3:07 pm
by Mikey Brown
Good for him, but yeah it's a shame for him what an unceremonious fade from the top he seemed to have. He really was class and it feels like we didn't always get the most out of him while waiting for Tuilagi to save the day for England.
Re: Transfer gossip - sometimes even accurate (accidentally) - Season 2022/23
Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:39 pm
by Peej
Quinn picking up Cam Anderson, as mentioned a few pages back, is a good bit if business. We always thought he'd make the grade at Wasps but a couple of badly timed injuries led to Piers O'Conor coming through instead
Re: Transfer gossip - sometimes even accurate (accidentally) - Season 2022/23
Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 8:56 am
by Banquo
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Tue Jul 04, 2023 3:07 pm
Good for him, but yeah it's a shame for him what an unceremonious fade from the top he seemed to have. He really was class and it feels like we didn't always get the most out of him while waiting for Tuilagi to save the day for England.
Plus he copped quite a nasty injury when he was about 29 iirc. One of the best defensive centres I've seen, in a non flashy bashy way, and at his best, rapid and decent hands to boot. What was not to like, I never figured when he wasn't being picked.
Re: Transfer gossip - sometimes even accurate (accidentally) - Season 2022/23
Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 9:08 am
by Which Tyler
From what I recall, it was the desire to make Te'o work as a Manu placeholder, and then to make Slade work as an international centre.
IMO Neither ever reached the heights of JJ as of when he was dropped.
Re: Transfer gossip - sometimes even accurate (accidentally) - Season 2022/23
Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 9:22 am
by francoisfou
Which Tyler wrote: ↑Tue Jul 04, 2023 12:27 pm
And JJ finally confirmed to Biarritz
IMO, the best move for all parties - just hope it's been handled well and that he's happy with it all.
Real pity we never got to say goodbye to him at the Rec.
I hear he's got a two-year contract and will maybe be joined by Welsh scrum half Rhys Webb, who Biarritz want to sign.
What a good move to finish his playing career, and will hopefully contribute to Biarritz's return to the Top14.
Re: Transfer gossip - sometimes even accurate (accidentally) - Season 2022/23
Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 9:50 am
by Scrumhead
Which Tyler wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 9:08 am
From what I recall, it was the desire to make Te'o work as a Manu placeholder, and then to make Slade work as an international centre.
IMO Neither ever reached the heights of JJ as of when he was dropped.
100% agree. JJ was rarely less than good for England. I’d always rather have picked him rather than messing about with other players who didn’t deserve to take his place.
Te’o was a huge waste of time and Slade’s always been consistently inconsistent.
Re: Transfer gossip - sometimes even accurate (accidentally) - Season 2022/23
Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 11:58 am
by Mellsblue
The lesson for all players to learn from this is to never be the darling of the RR EMB.
Re: Transfer gossip - sometimes even accurate (accidentally) - Season 2022/23
Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:02 pm
by Banquo
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 11:58 am
The lesson for all players to learn from this is to never be the darling of the RR EMB.
Be more iceman
Re: Transfer gossip - sometimes even accurate (accidentally) - Season 2022/23
Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:21 pm
by Puja
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 11:58 am
The lesson for all players to learn from this is to never be the darling of the RR EMB.
Although Slade was once the darling of the EMB too. You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
Puja
Re: Transfer gossip - sometimes even accurate (accidentally) - Season 2022/23
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 11:58 am
The lesson for all players to learn from this is to never be the darling of the RR EMB.
Although Slade was once the darling of the EMB too. You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
Puja
Live by the board, die by the board.
I think JJ was a marginally better OC than Slade until injury hit but, IMO, both suffered from bad management which consistently failed to get the best out of them. Slade is still suffering from that issue in that he could be threatened with Tuilagi or Farrell at 12 when neither should be in the shirt - Tuilagi because he is no longer worthy of it and Farrell because he never was. The irony is that Slade/JJ could have been the answer at 12/13 if the combination was tried at the right point, given time to develop and accompanied by the right selections at 9/10. I think history will conclude that both underachieved relative to their skill-sets through no fault of their own.
Re: Transfer gossip - sometimes even accurate (accidentally) - Season 2022/23
Although Slade was once the darling of the EMB too. You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
Puja
Live by the board, die by the board.
I think JJ was a marginally better OC than Slade until injury hit but, IMO, both suffered from bad management which consistently failed to get the best out of them. Slade is still suffering from that issue in that he could be threatened with Tuilagi or Farrell at 12 when neither should be in the shirt - Tuilagi because he is no longer worthy of it and Farrell because he never was. The irony is that Slade/JJ could have been the answer at 12/13 if the combination was tried at the right point, given time to develop and accompanied by the right selections at 9/10. I think history will conclude that both underachieved relative to their skill-sets through no fault of their own.
JJ different class and gravy to Slade. Can't even compare just highlight reels, and JJ's defence miles better. Very difficult to achieve much as an outside back between 2012 and now, can't think of the reason (s) (in fact, make that between 2002 and now ...bar a brief period under Eddie when the pack was very good).
Re: Transfer gossip - sometimes even accurate (accidentally) - Season 2022/23
I think JJ was a marginally better OC than Slade until injury hit but, IMO, both suffered from bad management which consistently failed to get the best out of them. Slade is still suffering from that issue in that he could be threatened with Tuilagi or Farrell at 12 when neither should be in the shirt - Tuilagi because he is no longer worthy of it and Farrell because he never was. The irony is that Slade/JJ could have been the answer at 12/13 if the combination was tried at the right point, given time to develop and accompanied by the right selections at 9/10. I think history will conclude that both underachieved relative to their skill-sets through no fault of their own.
JJ different class and gravy to Slade. Can't even compare just highlight reels, and JJ's defence miles better. Very difficult to achieve much as an outside back between 2012 and now, can't think of the reason (s) (in fact, make that between 2002 and now ...bar a brief period under Eddie when the pack was very good).
You have always highlighted JJ's defensive skills and I certainly have no argument there. Early in his international career, his attacking skills looked good with that ability to hit the right line successfully backed by pace over the vital first ten yards. When he lost that snap in acceleration following injury, he was judged sub-standard overall, presumably, and there was a period when Jones more or less announced his preference for Slade. I think that was more about simple general mis-management in terms of deciding to pick Farrell at 12, thereby negating the best of either JJ or Slade at 13.
Slade has been condemned for lacking pace on this board which I am never sure is justified by fact - IMO, it is more a case of his languid style not looking like he is scorching the turf. Slade's hands are superb but his use of them has not been exploited by England largely because he has rarely received decent ball at the right time. I think Lawrence, even slightly out of position at 12, has shown hints of changing that to the extent that I'd back the pairing for the RWC if Lawrence is fit.
Re: Transfer gossip - sometimes even accurate (accidentally) - Season 2022/23
Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 6:35 pm
by Mellsblue
Slade is to test rugby what Eric Morcambe is to piano playing… except it ain’t funny.
Re: Transfer gossip - sometimes even accurate (accidentally) - Season 2022/23
Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 6:54 pm
by Puja
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 6:35 pm
Slade is to test rugby what Eric Morcambe is to piano playing… except it ain’t funny.
That's a bit harsh for Slade - more Farrell, isn't it?
"I'm making all the right gainline decisions. Not necessarily in the right order. I'll give you that one sunshine."
Puja
Re: Transfer gossip - sometimes even accurate (accidentally) - Season 2022/23
I think JJ was a marginally better OC than Slade until injury hit but, IMO, both suffered from bad management which consistently failed to get the best out of them. Slade is still suffering from that issue in that he could be threatened with Tuilagi or Farrell at 12 when neither should be in the shirt - Tuilagi because he is no longer worthy of it and Farrell because he never was. The irony is that Slade/JJ could have been the answer at 12/13 if the combination was tried at the right point, given time to develop and accompanied by the right selections at 9/10. I think history will conclude that both underachieved relative to their skill-sets through no fault of their own.
JJ different class and gravy to Slade. Can't even compare just highlight reels, and JJ's defence miles better. Very difficult to achieve much as an outside back between 2012 and now, can't think of the reason (s) (in fact, make that between 2002 and now ...bar a brief period under Eddie when the pack was very good).
You have always highlighted JJ's defensive skills and I certainly have no argument there. Early in his international career, his attacking skills looked good with that ability to hit the right line successfully backed by pace over the vital first ten yards. When he lost that snap in acceleration following injury, he was judged sub-standard overall, presumably, and there was a period when Jones more or less announced his preference for Slade. I think that was more about simple general mis-management in terms of deciding to pick Farrell at 12, thereby negating the best of either JJ or Slade at 13.
Slade has been condemned for lacking pace on this board which I am never sure is justified by fact - IMO, it is more a case of his languid style not looking like he is scorching the turf. Slade's hands are superb but his use of them has not been exploited by England largely because he has rarely received decent ball at the right time. I think Lawrence, even slightly out of position at 12, has shown hints of changing that to the extent that I'd back the pairing for the RWC if Lawrence is fit.
He was actually canned before he got injured, bizarrely. Slade has never worried an intl defence as a runner.
Re: Transfer gossip - sometimes even accurate (accidentally) - Season 2022/23
Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 9:27 am
by Mr Mwenda
Was Farrrell at 12 during that period that JJ was in his pomp? Does that make JJ to blame for the years of hoping that Farrell works as a centre? A real shame that JJ lost his pace to injury, he looked a shadow of where he was in his last few caps.
Re: Transfer gossip - sometimes even accurate (accidentally) - Season 2022/23
Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 9:49 am
by Oakboy
Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 9:27 am
Was Farrrell at 12 during that period that JJ was in his pomp? Does that make JJ to blame for the years of hoping that Farrell works as a centre? A real shame that JJ lost his pace to injury, he looked a shadow of where he was in his last few caps.
Or, it just shows how good JJ was despite Farrell?
Re: Transfer gossip - sometimes even accurate (accidentally) - Season 2022/23
Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 9:53 am
by Which Tyler
Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 9:27 am
Was Farrrell at 12 during that period that JJ was in his pomp? Does that make JJ to blame for the years of hoping that Farrell works as a centre? A real shame that JJ lost his pace to injury, he looked a shadow of where he was in his last few caps.
Yup.
Properly broke into the England team shortly ahead of the 2015 RWC, he had a big ankle injury late-2018, missing the 2019 6N but made a full recovery and looked sharp, but never really regained "1st choice" status for England, and had been dropped before he started losing pace, which was probably about the beginning of 2021 season (IIRC it was a calf injury that he tried to play through, and never made a fully recovery from)
Re: Transfer gossip - sometimes even accurate (accidentally) - Season 2022/23
Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 11:48 am
by Mr Mwenda
He really was such a graceful, balanced runner:
Re: Transfer gossip - sometimes even accurate (accidentally) - Season 2022/23
Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 1:10 pm
by Which Tyler
Ball in both hands, no idea if he's going to step left, step right, turn on the pace, chip, grubber, pass left or pass right.
Just so elusive, with pace to fully exploit, and real rugby intellect.
And those highlights completely ignore his defence, at which he was the best in the world at OC for a full RWC cycle (and further).
In attack, he was always what I imagined a Guscott-with-professionalism-from-age-grade would have been; with the bonus of his defensive reading.
(in fact, make that between 2002 and now 
A real shame that JJ lost his pace to injury, he looked a shadow of where he was in his last few caps.
