New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread

[Mikey Brown]

Weird. I wonder if (for instance) having been undisputed starting England 8 or making the Lions tour (as he probably should have done) would have made a difference, or he simply doesn’t care as much for the lifestyle as what he had in France.

[Puja]

Done deal, announced. England can't be that important for him...

Hope we see more of CCS at 8 now.

Where've you seen the announcement? All I've seen in the Telegraph article, which I'm still praying is agent nonsense. (ETA. Just seen the Sarries confirmation )

If it is true, we shouldn't be picking him for the AIs or 6N. He's definitely our best 8, but if we're going to have to do without him going forwards, then we should start now, and we've got enough quality back rows that we can afford to make a point.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

Sure, but why not make that move post RWC 27? Shocking decision that feels like a real betrayal.

[Mr Mwenda]

Good luck to him. Who knows what is going on in his life and fair play to take an opportunity like that. But as you all say, England must move on. A shame when it looked like 8 was sorted for a bit.

[twitchy]

Embarrassing move all round, honestly. For english rugby and for willis himself. Just when things were really looking up for the national team as well.

[Scrumhead]

Is it embarrassing for English rugby? There are plenty of things Borthwick and the RFU have got wrong/could do better, but I can’t see that they’ve done anything wrong here?

If he wants to maximise his earnings and live a Mediterranean lifestyle more than he wants to play for England, it says more about him than it does about anyone else.

[fivepointer]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/ ... x-contract

Guardian confirming.

Its a real blow. He was looking a likely fixture for the WC and beyond.

Plainly living and playing in France mean more to him than playing for England.

[Which Tyler]

Sure, but why not make that move post RWC 27? Shocking decision that feels like a real betrayal.

Exactly this.
He's very well paid, got an England contract, just about established as England's starting #8, and a 1 year contract would take him through the RWC - at least stay for that!

Pretty pissed off with him ATM, especially if he's been telling Borthwick that he wants to be part of the future, by... I dunno... signing a central contract.

On which, surely signing on with a non-prem team would be a breach of his central contract? Or does he "just" have to give that money back?

ETA: Sorry, of course, he's still in the country for this season, so not disbarred, it's just pointless to select him. The issues above would only kick in if his central contract was for more than 1 year.

[Scrumhead]

Exactly - apparently he still gets the money from the central contract for the next year which makes it even worse.

He’s f**ked everyone over here and so far, I haven’t read any comments with any reference to England. Only how it was a difficult decision cos he loved his time at Saracens. Seriously … he can Foxtrot Oscar as far as I’m concerned.

[fivepointer]

Its very disappointing but he's made his decision and so must England by no longer picking him.

Thoughts turn to who plays 8 and the make up of the back row. We dont have a like for like replacement so its about getting the best balance available.

[Scrumhead]

CCS is the closest in terms of size physicality and carrying.

It’s disruptive to Borthwick as it looked very much like he was grooming CCS for the back 5 utility role on the bench, but perhaps that opens the door for Hill?

I wonder if Ilione could become an option at 8 in the medium term?

[FKAS]

CCS is the closest in terms of size physicality and carrying.

It’s disruptive to Borthwick as it looked very much like he was grooming CCS for the back 5 utility role on the bench, but perhaps that opens the door for Hill?

I wonder if Ilione could become an option at 8 in the medium term?

We don't have anyone close to being a like for like replacement that's the major issue. Willis combines the explosive carrying, size and massive work rate. CCS has the size and explosive carrying but not the work rate. Earl has the explosive carrying and work rate but not the size and physicality.

Ilione has not quite the size and not quite the explosive carrying but the work rate. He's as you say a medium term option, the issue is this season.

Hill is also injured at present, could be ok for the 6N.

[Captainhaircut]

I think we’ll probably see Pollock end up being used at 8. Possible we go back to Chessum at 6 (especially once Martin is back fit) with one of Curry x 2, Underhill or Pepper at 7 and Pollock or Earl at 8. CCS on the bench for impact at lock, 6 or 8.

[Puja]

CCS is the closest in terms of size physicality and carrying.

It’s disruptive to Borthwick as it looked very much like he was grooming CCS for the back 5 utility role on the bench, but perhaps that opens the door for Hill?

I wonder if Ilione could become an option at 8 in the medium term?

We don't have anyone close to being a like for like replacement that's the major issue. Willis combines the explosive carrying, size and massive work rate. CCS has the size and explosive carrying but not the work rate. Earl has the explosive carrying and work rate but not the size and physicality.

Ilione has not quite the size and not quite the explosive carrying but the work rate. He's as you say a medium term option, the issue is this season.

Hill is also injured at present, could be ok for the 6N.

Then we don't go like-for-like. There's no point trying to make a gameplan with a big no 8 work if we don't have one of the requisite quality - we shouldn't just shove CCS or Ilione in there and hope for the best. Instead, we should adapt to our strength and play three flankers like before - we already know Earl can be successful there and Pollock played half last season there for Saints.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Fantastic opportunity to play Itoje in his correct position of no8.

[FKAS]

I think we’ll probably see Pollock end up being used at 8. Possible we go back to Chessum at 6 (especially once Martin is back fit) with one of Curry x 2, Underhill or Pepper at 7 and Pollock or Earl at 8. CCS on the bench for impact at lock, 6 or 8.

Problem is Martin won't be back until the 6N.

I agree with Puja, we can't go like for like because there isn't one.

Do we go with Chessum at 6 and use CCS at lock for 50 mins and then move Chessum into the row and bring on Pollock for CCS. Start with Pepper and Earl at 7 and 8. Try and share that carrying and physicality around the pack a bit more.

[Captainhaircut]

Coles playing well. Could we go Itoje, Coles, chessum, Underhill, Earl and have pepper, CCS and pollock off the bench?

CCS just come off injured mind…

[Puja]

I think we’ll probably see Pollock end up being used at 8. Possible we go back to Chessum at 6 (especially once Martin is back fit) with one of Curry x 2, Underhill or Pepper at 7 and Pollock or Earl at 8. CCS on the bench for impact at lock, 6 or 8.

Problem is Martin won't be back until the 6N.

I agree with Puja, we can't go like for like because there isn't one.

Do we go with Chessum at 6 and use CCS at lock for 50 mins and then move Chessum into the row and bring on Pollock for CCS. Start with Pepper and Earl at 7 and 8. Try and share that carrying and physicality around the pack a bit more.

I'm a fan of the concept of CCS at lock, but doesn't that seem a bit ass-backwards to you? Surely easier to just play Chessum 5 and CCS at 6 if you want to play both? Frankly, I'm not sure CCS even makes my XXIII right now, after having watched him get dismissed by Exeter today. The lowlight is a tough call between the time he carried into traffic at top speed, with a 10m run-up, and made zero ground or the time he picked up from the base of a scrum 10m out and got utterly demolished and held up for a maul turnover by Ethan Roots. Frankly, if we're picking a big 6, we could do worse than going back to Roots.

For me, I'd just keep Chessum in the second row and pick any two of Underhill, BCurry, Pepper, Pollock at 6/7 and then Earl at 8. Sure there's no specialist lineout exponent in the back row, but they're all competent and movement means that having 5 decent lineout jumpers is more than enough, especially when one of them is Chessum. Double down on having a fast attacking back row and spread the ball.

Puja

[Captainhaircut]

CCS is at the wrong club unfortunately. Feels like Quins don’t get him enough ball, nor do they have any other real tight carriers so he’s getting well targeted by defences. He’s always looked better for England than Quins.

A move to Sale, Bath or Sarries in the summer would probably take his game to another level particularly from a work rate perspective.

[twitchy]

He got what looked like a nasty injury today as well.

[charlesdeboeuf]

Rather infuriating news. Sharply contrasts with the commitment shown by the Curry twins. Bordeaux and Toulouse aren’t even that close!

Anyhow, worry not chaps - George Marsh to complete his Pollock-esque rise to the national team just in time for the World Cup. Here. First.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Lots of strong language being used when nobody has the slightest clue behind his decision.

I’d still pick him cause he’s the best option by far even if he’s off to France. But then I’d pick him whilst in France too if he maintains form next season.

[Scrumhead]

Well here are some facts:

He signed a central contract

He still gets the pay/benefits of that contract for this season*

He was a regular in the 23, probably first choice at 8

He’s made 0 mention of England in his comments thus far

I wonder how someone like Sam Underhill feels? He’s always given 100% for England over an extended period and gets overlooked for a CC in favour of Willis, who then does this.

Even without speculation, the facts are enough to piss me off.

*Yes, I know Borthwick could pick him, but that would not be in England’s best interests at all.

[TheDasher]

Re Willis it's a real shame, had certainly become my favourite England player - so consistently effective, well on his way to being in the running for best intl number 8 in Europe with the trajectory he's been on, a truly world-class carrier who I'd have taken to the Lions. Seems rather unpatriotic to turn your back on England with a world cup coming up but then again, important to be your own man in life - perhaps he loves his brother and wants their families to be close, you never know. Good luck to him.

I have said for a couple of years that CCS looks like an 8 to me. I think he's the perfect replacement and I hope he really goes hard on staying there. He's a hard carrying athlete... doesn't have the engine for 80 minutes of graft at 6 in my eyes and is never a lock at the very top level. If he can keep playing at 8 I think he'll become really formidable. Please Steve, pick him there, don't muck about and do something illogical. Outside of him, I'd have Alfie Barbeary around as a hard carrying lump who can cover 2 as well potentially...

[Danno]

I don't think Alfie has been in the front row or had to throw a dart in about 7 years. And if you think CCS' workrate isn't up to snuff...