RugbyRebels

Sandydragon wrote:

Puja wrote:The whole idea of a new third political party in the UK is utterly pointless until we sort out our antiquated electoral system that forces a two party contest. You cannot have genuine multi-party competition for government while FPtP exists.

It's a point McDonnell appears to have missed in his instant claim that Ummuna et al should call instant by-elections. At least the Secret Seven can be vaguely relied upon as an anti-Tory, anti-austerity voting bloc, whereas a by-election would likely see some of the seats lost to the Conservatives if the left vote split evenly.

Puja

If it’s just 7 MPs then it will make little difference. If a larger number move across then it could become very interesting. Their immediate disadvantage is that they don’t have the party machinery to support them, but they could split votes.

Sandydragon wrote:The Tory problem is infiltration from UKIP which is helped by some of the right wing MPs who have lurked under the radar for years and have only recently got any media attention.

There is still an opportunity to redeem the party and pull it back towards the centre. But if Boris or JRM become the next leader, then standby for defections.

Digby wrote:Calling Chukka centre right made me chortle

Sandydragon wrote:

Puja wrote:The whole idea of a new third political party in the UK is utterly pointless until we sort out our antiquated electoral system that forces a two party contest. You cannot have genuine multi-party competition for government while FPtP exists.

It's a point McDonnell appears to have missed in his instant claim that Ummuna et al should call instant by-elections. At least the Secret Seven can be vaguely relied upon as an anti-Tory, anti-austerity voting bloc, whereas a by-election would likely see some of the seats lost to the Conservatives if the left vote split evenly.

Puja

If it’s just 7 MPs then it will make little difference. If a larger number move across then it could become very interesting. Their immediate disadvantage is that they don’t have the party machinery to support them, but they could split votes.

Sandydragon wrote:

Puja wrote:The whole idea of a new third political party in the UK is utterly pointless until we sort out our antiquated electoral system that forces a two party contest. You cannot have genuine multi-party competition for government while FPtP exists.

It's a point McDonnell appears to have missed in his instant claim that Ummuna et al should call instant by-elections. At least the Secret Seven can be vaguely relied upon as an anti-Tory, anti-austerity voting bloc, whereas a by-election would likely see some of the seats lost to the Conservatives if the left vote split evenly.

Puja

If it’s just 7 MPs then it will make little difference. If a larger number move across then it could become very interesting. Their immediate disadvantage is that they don’t have the party machinery to support them, but they could split votes.

canta_brian wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Puja wrote:The whole idea of a new third political party in the UK is utterly pointless until we sort out our antiquated electoral system that forces a two party contest. You cannot have genuine multi-party competition for government while FPtP exists.

It's a point McDonnell appears to have missed in his instant claim that Ummuna et al should call instant by-elections. At least the Secret Seven can be vaguely relied upon as an anti-Tory, anti-austerity voting bloc, whereas a by-election would likely see some of the seats lost to the Conservatives if the left vote split evenly.

Puja

If it’s just 7 MPs then it will make little difference. If a larger number move across then it could become very interesting. Their immediate disadvantage is that they don’t have the party machinery to support them, but they could split votes.

Agree it’s just 7, this evening they are up to 8. The Dup has only 10 and that was worth a billion.

Any chance this will end up being a move towards proportional representation?

Digby wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Puja wrote:The whole idea of a new third political party in the UK is utterly pointless until we sort out our antiquated electoral system that forces a two party contest. You cannot have genuine multi-party competition for government while FPtP exists.

It's a point McDonnell appears to have missed in his instant claim that Ummuna et al should call instant by-elections. At least the Secret Seven can be vaguely relied upon as an anti-Tory, anti-austerity voting bloc, whereas a by-election would likely see some of the seats lost to the Conservatives if the left vote split evenly.

Puja

If it’s just 7 MPs then it will make little difference. If a larger number move across then it could become very interesting. Their immediate disadvantage is that they don’t have the party machinery to support them, but they could split votes.

Even just the 8 gives May a headache, before the ERG had the far stronger nuclear option of bringing down the government by splitting off. Now May can't afford to lose even a low number of europhiles who suddenly have a possible home

Digby wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Puja wrote:The whole idea of a new third political party in the UK is utterly pointless until we sort out our antiquated electoral system that forces a two party contest. You cannot have genuine multi-party competition for government while FPtP exists.

It's a point McDonnell appears to have missed in his instant claim that Ummuna et al should call instant by-elections. At least the Secret Seven can be vaguely relied upon as an anti-Tory, anti-austerity voting bloc, whereas a by-election would likely see some of the seats lost to the Conservatives if the left vote split evenly.

Puja

If it’s just 7 MPs then it will make little difference. If a larger number move across then it could become very interesting. Their immediate disadvantage is that they don’t have the party machinery to support them, but they could split votes.

Even just the 8 gives May a headache, before the ERG had the far stronger nuclear option of bringing down the government by splitting off. Now May can't afford to lose even a low number of europhiles who suddenly have a possible home

Banquo wrote: Could find ourselves in an election.....

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote: Could find ourselves in an election.....

We really only need a big hike in inflation and we'd be ticking banana republic status across the board

Zhivago wrote:3 tory defectors confirmed, we're up to eleven now

Stom wrote:

Zhivago wrote:3 tory defectors confirmed, we're up to eleven now

There will be more. Bigger than the Lib Dems already

Digby wrote:Any Lib Dems joined yet?

Stom wrote:

Digby wrote:Any Lib Dems joined yet?

Are any of them actually alive?

Stom wrote:

Digby wrote:Any Lib Dems joined yet?

Are any of them actually alive?

Digby wrote: But more importantly the letter from those leaving the Conservative party starts Dear Prime minister and ends yours sincerely, is PM a name or should that not end faithfully, or is it sincerely as to end a letter saying you're deserting someone faithfully would be absurd?

Puja wrote:I'd say PM is a name/title. It's clearly being used as a direct and specific form of address, so yours sincerely is appropriate to my mind.

Mind, never mind about politicians not being faithful, it's a bit of a stretch to suggest many of them are sincere!