RugbyRebels

I would fairly strongly suspect that attendence of hte liuons players depends on where they are - if player X is half way around the world sitting on a beach; then turning up just for a medical check-up (no training for those guys remember) would be pretty stupid.

Mellsblue wrote:I wonder how those Lions who have opted to rest will fare in the future. Pretty ballsy if, arguably, sensible move.

I would imagine that Eddie gave them the choice and would probably respect them for being honest and knowing their needs.

A major missing name is Ben Curry. Seems awfully harsh considering he was due to start the Barbarians game before injury and was preferred to Tom for that. I suspect Eddie may be making a point or playing a game.

Puja

Scrumhead wrote:[
When I see Wigglesworth, I just think why bother!

Me too

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:I wonder how those Lions who have opted to rest will fare in the future. Pretty ballsy if, arguably, sensible move.

I would imagine that Eddie gave them the choice and would probably respect them for being honest and knowing their needs.

A major missing name is Ben Curry. Seems awfully harsh considering he was due to start the Barbarians game before injury and was preferred to Tom for that. I suspect Eddie may be making a point or playing a game.

Puja

So honest Eddie in para 1 vs dishonest Eddie is para 2.

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:I wonder how those Lions who have opted to rest will fare in the future. Pretty ballsy if, arguably, sensible move.

I would imagine that Eddie gave them the choice and would probably respect them for being honest and knowing their needs.

A major missing name is Ben Curry. Seems awfully harsh considering he was due to start the Barbarians game before injury and was preferred to Tom for that. I suspect Eddie may be making a point or playing a game.

Puja

I agree on the bolded statement. Marler's withdrawal prior to the Australia didn't do him any harm. Eddie respected his honesty and said so at the time.

Re. Ben Curry, it is harsh, but it's not as though another uncapped player was called up at his expense. Tom, Wilson and Underhill all did well and so it stands to reason that the guy losing out is the one who didn't play a game and if anything his place was probably taken by Billy coming back in to the selection mix.

If what I've read about the Currys competitive nature is true, I expect Ben to start next season like a madman. He outperformed Tom last season, so I can't see why he can't repeat the feat. To have them driving each other is great for Sale and England IMO.

I'm pleased to see Tom Dunn in there. Eddie has name-checked him in the past and I'd assume he's basically taken Taylor's place.

Puja wrote:

morepork wrote:

Stom wrote:
And is one of the reasons NZ do so well. It's almost inbuilt immersion, something we cannot possibly replicate.

Why not?

Because rugby is your primary sport, whereas ours is sarcasm.

Puja

Well I never.

morepork wrote:

Puja wrote:

morepork wrote:

Why not?

Because rugby is your primary sport, whereas ours is sarcasm.

Puja

Well I never.

Tch. Amateur.

Puja

Scrumhead wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:I wonder how those Lions who have opted to rest will fare in the future. Pretty ballsy if, arguably, sensible move.

So by my reckoning the missing Lions are: Mako, Marler, Kruis, Haskell, Joseph, Lawes and Te'o

Daly as well.

Daly not on the list either.

Oh yeah ... not sure how I missed that.

Anyway. Just a training squad. The EPS will be the interesting one.

Puja wrote:

morepork wrote:

Puja wrote:
Because rugby is your primary sport, whereas ours is sarcasm.

Puja

Well I never.

Tch. Amateur.

Puja

I get paid to bait you Engrish. I do it at work.

morepork wrote:I do it at work.

It''s like Cole Porter never left

I know it's only a training squad but I'll admit to being a bit confused ...

Eddie has always spoken about a 4 year master plan building up to 2019, but more recently he's been taking a look at some surprisingly young players with next to no game time at club level.

I don't think that anyone doubts that Isiekwe has the potential be a top player, as well as the latest example - Marcus Smith, but I'd question whether either of those are genuinely likely to be contenders for 2019, so I'm confused at what is driving Eddie to select them - particularly considering he's supposed to be leaving after the World Cup?

I love the way he's been bringing through the U20 players and developing the 'pathway' but now we're beginning to enter the build up to Japan, surely we should be focusing our time on the players who are most likely to give us a shot at winning a World Cup. Marcus Smith won't be ready to do that in 2yrs time but someone like Freddie Burns is ready to go now.

Mellsblue wrote:Wigglesworth, Tuilagi and Marcus Smith are all notable choices. Can anybody give me the lowdown on Smith?

He's a young lad with a really well rounded skill set. He's got everything, though it's now up to him to make the transition to adult rugby.

Where's Daly? Nobody has mentioned him, have they?

Scrumhead wrote:I know it's only a training squad but I'll admit to being a bit confused ...

Eddie has always spoken about a 4 year master plan building up to 2019, but more recently he's been taking a look at some surprisingly young players with next to no game time at club level.

I don't think that anyone doubts that Isiekwe has the potential be a top player, as well as the latest example - Marcus Smith, but I'd question whether either of those are genuinely likely to be contenders for 2019, so I'm confused at what is driving Eddie to select them - particularly considering he's supposed to be leaving after the World Cup?

I love the way he's been bringing through the U20 players and developing the 'pathway' but now we're beginning to enter the build up to Japan, surely we should be focusing our time on the players who are most likely to give us a shot at winning a World Cup. Marcus Smith won't be ready to do that in 2yrs time but someone like Freddie Burns is ready to go now.

Why wouldn't you look at the best young talent and see if there was a gem in there? Look how quickly Itoje went from age grade to 'superstar'. Jones is regularly taking with Fletch and the other youth coaches. It's part of the reason for calling up kids with little game time.

You wouldn't believe the scale of the pipeline coming through. We will have too cladd players coming out of our ears very soon.

Also I think he is actually doing what Woodward didn't which is to actually think about succession planning.

Scrumhead wrote:I know it's only a training squad but I'll admit to being a bit confused ...

Eddie has always spoken about a 4 year master plan building up to 2019, but more recently he's been taking a look at some surprisingly young players with next to no game time at club level.

I don't think that anyone doubts that Isiekwe has the potential be a top player, as well as the latest example - Marcus Smith, but I'd question whether either of those are genuinely likely to be contenders for 2019, so I'm confused at what is driving Eddie to select them - particularly considering he's supposed to be leaving after the World Cup?

I love the way he's been bringing through the U20 players and developing the 'pathway' but now we're beginning to enter the build up to Japan, surely we should be focusing our time on the players who are most likely to give us a shot at winning a World Cup. Marcus Smith won't be ready to do that in 2yrs time but someone like Freddie Burns is ready to go now.

It makes me wonder if Eddie is just frustrated by the Lions interruption. Have players ever been omitted from the AIs in the past (unless injured)? It's like he's playing around for a bit of fun despite his fine words about the seriousness of the build-up.

Scrumhead wrote:I know it's only a training squad but I'll admit to being a bit confused ...

Eddie has always spoken about a 4 year master plan building up to 2019, but more recently he's been taking a look at some surprisingly young players with next to no game time at club level.

I don't think that anyone doubts that Isiekwe has the potential be a top player, as well as the latest example - Marcus Smith, but I'd question whether either of those are genuinely likely to be contenders for 2019, so I'm confused at what is driving Eddie to select them - particularly considering he's supposed to be leaving after the World Cup?

I love the way he's been bringing through the U20 players and developing the 'pathway' but now we're beginning to enter the build up to Japan, surely we should be focusing our time on the players who are most likely to give us a shot at winning a World Cup. Marcus Smith won't be ready to do that in 2yrs time but someone like Freddie Burns is ready to go now.

Apparently Smith trained with the squad last season and has obviously made a good impression. Its just possible he may force his way into the 2019 reckoning but it is a stretch.

Dont see much wrong in having a look at the odd promising young player, but if the next WC is the over riding objective then its right to wonder if some of the recent calls make much sense.

If nothing else, it sure keeps players on their toes.

It's the Eddie's off after 2019 bit that's confusing me too. It's obv a good thing to be looking at players for after then but it's a pretty magnanimous thing for him to be denying himself using players who would quite possibly be more relevant in the next two years in case of injury problems in the run up to and at the WC. If (eg) Itoje, Lawes and Launch got injured in the run up to the WC would he then realistically turn to Isekwe for his WC squad rather than say Symonds? I do find it a bit perplexing, but then I'm not Eddie.

Unless of course he is actually thinking he might still be here in 2020 cos the job won't have been done.

Scrumhead wrote:I know it's only a training squad but I'll admit to being a bit confused ...

Eddie has always spoken about a 4 year master plan building up to 2019, but more recently he's been taking a look at some surprisingly young players with next to no game time at club level.

I don't think that anyone doubts that Isiekwe has the potential be a top player, as well as the latest example - Marcus Smith, but I'd question whether either of those are genuinely likely to be contenders for 2019, so I'm confused at what is driving Eddie to select them - particularly considering he's supposed to be leaving after the World Cup?

I love the way he's been bringing through the U20 players and developing the 'pathway' but now we're beginning to enter the build up to Japan, surely we should be focusing our time on the players who are most likely to give us a shot at winning a World Cup. Marcus Smith won't be ready to do that in 2yrs time but someone like Freddie Burns is ready to go now.

I think I agree. Itoje it seems was always earmarked for this level and his rise was pretty linear, no? Isiekwe by comparison looks very handy but will surely only be involved in the RWC with a couple of injuries at lock.

There's some hope in this squad for addressing the issues at 2, 7, 9, 10/12, 15 but you'd think now would be a great time to look at Taylor/Burns etc.

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Wigglesworth, Tuilagi and Marcus Smith are all notable choices. Can anybody give me the lowdown on Smith?

He's a young lad with a really well rounded skill set. He's got everything, though it's now up to him to make the transition to adult rugby.

Cheers

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:I know it's only a training squad but I'll admit to being a bit confused ...

Eddie has always spoken about a 4 year master plan building up to 2019, but more recently he's been taking a look at some surprisingly young players with next to no game time at club level.

I don't think that anyone doubts that Isiekwe has the potential be a top player, as well as the latest example - Marcus Smith, but I'd question whether either of those are genuinely likely to be contenders for 2019, so I'm confused at what is driving Eddie to select them - particularly considering he's supposed to be leaving after the World Cup?

I love the way he's been bringing through the U20 players and developing the 'pathway' but now we're beginning to enter the build up to Japan, surely we should be focusing our time on the players who are most likely to give us a shot at winning a World Cup. Marcus Smith won't be ready to do that in 2yrs time but someone like Freddie Burns is ready to go now.

Also I think he is actually doing what Woodward didn't which is to actually think about succession planning.

This.

Jones' appointment was based on three overriding priorities. Firstly, to win in Japan. Secondly, to have a coaching team ready to replace him and thirdly to get Ben Youngs to lose some weight. No point succeeding in the second aim if the coaching team spend the next World Cup cycle sorting the wheat from the chaff and building experience in the next generation.

It's hard not to get excited with so many prospects coming through now. I'm generally as cautious as the next person on here but the youth production line doesn't seem to just be a blip.

twitchy wrote:It's hard not to get excited with so many prospects coming through now. I'm generally as cautious as the next person on here but the youth production line doesn't seem to just be a blip.

Agreed but it's still a question of sufficient club game time.

Scrumhead wrote:I know it's only a training squad but I'll admit to being a bit confused ...

Eddie has always spoken about a 4 year master plan building up to 2019, but more recently he's been taking a look at some surprisingly young players with next to no game time at club level.

I don't think that anyone doubts that Isiekwe has the potential be a top player, as well as the latest example - Marcus Smith, but I'd question whether either of those are genuinely likely to be contenders for 2019, so I'm confused at what is driving Eddie to select them - particularly considering he's supposed to be leaving after the World Cup?

I love the way he's been bringing through the U20 players and developing the 'pathway' but now we're beginning to enter the build up to Japan, surely we should be focusing our time on the players who are most likely to give us a shot at winning a World Cup. Marcus Smith won't be ready to do that in 2yrs time but someone like Freddie Burns is ready to go now.

Is he though? Is he really a worthy option? As things stand on current form, we'd need to have at least 4 players out before he even became a bench option and in that scenario we'd be screwed anyway. I'm okay with taking a bolter for a few days out, rather than giving the spot to someone who won't realistically trouble selection without significant improvement or a ridiculous run of injuries.

Eddie wants to be the man who took England to the top of the rugby world; he wants a legacy. Part of that is going to be making sure our pathways are in place, so that he can say he changed English rugby, rather than just coached a good team.

Puja