RugbyRebels

Beasties wrote:It's the Eddie's off after 2019 bit that's confusing me too. It's obv a good thing to be looking at players for after then but it's a pretty magnanimous thing for him to be denying himself using players who would quite possibly be more relevant in the next two years in case of injury problems in the run up to and at the WC. If (eg) Itoje, Lawes and Launch got injured in the run up to the WC would he then realistically turn to Isekwe for his WC squad rather than say Symonds? I do find it a bit perplexing, but then I'm not Eddie.

Unless of course he is actually thinking he might still be here in 2020 cos the job won't have been done.

Puja wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:I know it's only a training squad but I'll admit to being a bit confused ...

Eddie has always spoken about a 4 year master plan building up to 2019, but more recently he's been taking a look at some surprisingly young players with next to no game time at club level.

I don't think that anyone doubts that Isiekwe has the potential be a top player, as well as the latest example - Marcus Smith, but I'd question whether either of those are genuinely likely to be contenders for 2019, so I'm confused at what is driving Eddie to select them - particularly considering he's supposed to be leaving after the World Cup?

I love the way he's been bringing through the U20 players and developing the 'pathway' but now we're beginning to enter the build up to Japan, surely we should be focusing our time on the players who are most likely to give us a shot at winning a World Cup. Marcus Smith won't be ready to do that in 2yrs time but someone like Freddie Burns is ready to go now.

Is he though? Is he really a worthy option? As things stand on current form, we'd need to have at least 4 players out before he even became a bench option and in that scenario we'd be screwed anyway. I'm okay with taking a bolter for a few days out, rather than giving the spot to someone who won't realistically trouble selection without significant improvement or a ridiculous run of injuries.

Eddie wants to be the man who took England to the top of the rugby world; he wants a legacy. Part of that is going to be making sure our pathways are in place, so that he can say he changed English rugby, rather than just coached a good team.

Puja

Scrumhead wrote:

Puja wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:I know it's only a training squad but I'll admit to being a bit confused ...

Eddie has always spoken about a 4 year master plan building up to 2019, but more recently he's been taking a look at some surprisingly young players with next to no game time at club level.

I don't think that anyone doubts that Isiekwe has the potential be a top player, as well as the latest example - Marcus Smith, but I'd question whether either of those are genuinely likely to be contenders for 2019, so I'm confused at what is driving Eddie to select them - particularly considering he's supposed to be leaving after the World Cup?

I love the way he's been bringing through the U20 players and developing the 'pathway' but now we're beginning to enter the build up to Japan, surely we should be focusing our time on the players who are most likely to give us a shot at winning a World Cup. Marcus Smith won't be ready to do that in 2yrs time but someone like Freddie Burns is ready to go now.

Is he though? Is he really a worthy option? As things stand on current form, we'd need to have at least 4 players out before he even became a bench option and in that scenario we'd be screwed anyway. I'm okay with taking a bolter for a few days out, rather than giving the spot to someone who won't realistically trouble selection without significant improvement or a ridiculous run of injuries.

Eddie wants to be the man who took England to the top of the rugby world; he wants a legacy. Part of that is going to be making sure our pathways are in place, so that he can say he changed English rugby, rather than just coached a good team.

Puja

I think Burns is absolutely good enough to be our third/fourth choice fly half. I thought he was very good last season and I expect him to be good for Bath.

I agree with you on Eddie wanting to leave a legacy, but you could argue he's already doing that without the wildcard selection of 18 year old kids with next to no top level experience. I support the idea in principle, but to Beasties point, I wouldn't want to be relying on a kid if one of our first choice players were to pick up an injury that rules them out of the tournament.

Smith isn't even in Quins first team squad so he's only likely to be involved in Cup and A League games this season. Even being super-optimistic, I can't see him picking up more than 20 appearances across the 17/18 and 18/19 seasons. I can't see how that would really put him in the selection mix for the World Cup squad.

Beasties wrote:You make a very good argument for what may be behind Eddie's thinking Puja. If you're right then I can see the logic of it totally. It is however quite different from what we're used to as Eng fans. Next bus off the ranks has been an established theme for as long as I can remember, apart from the SCW reign starting out with the old in with the new approach. That quickly calmed itself down too.

I hadn't viewed it quite like that but feel a bit better about it now. It very much sems like seasoned starters plus uber youths, with no middle ground. But I can't help feeling that he wouldn't be risking much by including say Robson instead of Wiggy.

Mellsblue wrote:Lots of interesting stuff in here:

Manu Tuilagi: Eddie Jones ready to pick England centre after seven-month lay-off
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40828008

Mikey Brown wrote:Is it? I feel like that would be getting massively ahead of ourselves.

Bloggs wrote:Interesting that he calls Marcus Smith their 4th choice 10...this kid must be uber talented. I want to see him in a Quins 10 or 22 shirt NOW

Scrumhead wrote:

Bloggs wrote:Interesting that he calls Marcus Smith their 4th choice 10...this kid must be uber talented. I want to see him in a Quins 10 or 22 shirt NOW

I wonder if he's just trying to inspire the kid? Even as a Quins fan, that's just madness.

There is just no way that Eddie or anyone else can claim that Smith is better than Cipriani, Freddie or Billy Burns right now. Max Malins is also a U20 World Cup winner (OK a runner up as a 10).

Even if he has all the ability in the world, it's not been tested at anything close to the highest level so for him to be described as fourth choice is just insane.

Puja wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:

Bloggs wrote:Interesting that he calls Marcus Smith their 4th choice 10...this kid must be uber talented. I want to see him in a Quins 10 or 22 shirt NOW

I wonder if he's just trying to inspire the kid? Even as a Quins fan, that's just madness.

There is just no way that Eddie or anyone else can claim that Smith is better than Cipriani, Freddie or Billy Burns right now. Max Malins is also a U20 World Cup winner (OK a runner up as a 10).

Even if he has all the ability in the world, it's not been tested at anything close to the highest level so for him to be described as fourth choice is just insane.

I will note that the exact wording that Eddie uses is, "We see enough about him to be the fourth-choice 10 in our squad." He's not saying he's the fourth best in the country, just that they see enough promise for him to be the fourth choice in this squad.

Puja

twitchy wrote:Interview with robson. He says he has been working on his pace and sprints with darren campbell.


http://imgur.com/a/u78ue#BjTNFZj

fivepointer wrote:Robson was outstanding in the early part of last season. He was easily the best SH in the country. His form tailed off a bit in the 2nd half of the season but for quite a time he was playing at a consistently high standard. His challenge is to iron out the errors and produce greater all round consistency. When he's playing well, i reckon he's streets ahead of any other SH we've got.