RugbyRebels

Wonder if Smith's performance in the sevens actually helped him. He looked skillful and tenacious. If so that might be the only time the sevens have actually been useful.

I have a feeling Eddie is hoping that by having some of these younger guys in the squad he might be able to train them to a level where they could get games for thier clubs sooner than otherwise. While we're producing a lot of talented young players at the moment it's getting harder and harder for them to get meaningful game time. Maybe this is Eddie's way of stopping the waste.

bitts wrote:Wonder if Smith's performance in the sevens actually helped him. He looked skillful and tenacious. If so that might be the only time the sevens have actually been useful.

I have a feeling Eddie is hoping that by having some of these younger guys in the squad he might be able to train them to a level where they could get games for thier clubs sooner than otherwise. While we're producing a lot of talented young players at the moment it's getting harder and harder for them to get meaningful game time. Maybe this is Eddie's way of stopping the waste.

You say that, but are there really many U20s starlets struggling for game-time in the Prem? They're kicking on and pushing through with such regularity that they're more likely nowadays to be blocked by another U20s starlet, rather than a foreigner.

Puja

Puja wrote:

bitts wrote:Wonder if Smith's performance in the sevens actually helped him. He looked skillful and tenacious. If so that might be the only time the sevens have actually been useful.

I have a feeling Eddie is hoping that by having some of these younger guys in the squad he might be able to train them to a level where they could get games for thier clubs sooner than otherwise. While we're producing a lot of talented young players at the moment it's getting harder and harder for them to get meaningful game time. Maybe this is Eddie's way of stopping the waste.

You say that, but are there really many U20s starlets struggling for game-time in the Prem? They're kicking on and pushing through with such regularity that they're more likely nowadays to be blocked by another U20s starlet, rather than a foreigner.

Puja

Actually I was going to add a line about how they are now being blocked by other young talent. Especially given that a lot of the talent is at the better clubs. I do think it's still an issue as, while they may get some game time, many of these young players will only get LV cup or nothing games for a season or two. This is where we lag behind countries that can guarantee young players more time.

We're in a great position, but this is one area that could be improved. Look at Malins at Sarries or Townsend at Exceter. Both could be getting a lot more game time at a midtable club, but both are likely to be restricted to bit parts at best. That they are competing largely with other young English players is great. But they could easily end up like Robson, who is possibly still suffering from a lack of game time at a younger age.

This is why they have extended he A league and changed the rules regarding clubs loaning players and the number of clubs a player can play for in a season from Prem down to NL3.

Epaminondas Pules wrote:This is why they have extended he A league and changed the rules regarding clubs loaning players and the number of clubs a player can play for in a season from Prem down to NL3.

Have you heard any whisper about who Sarries are loaning to/DR with Bedford?

England Rugby‏Verified account @EnglandRugby 2m2 minutes ago
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SQUAD UPDATE | Denny Solomona and Manu Tuilagi have been sent home today from England's training camp following team culture issues.

Erm...

FFS ... perhaps Eddie is implementing his own version of the AB's 'no d!ckheads' policy.

Boozing perhaps? Wonder where that leaves them both.

Just a twitter rumour, but apparently the pair were drinking till 3am, senior players behind the idea of sending them home.

What a pair of grade A prats! I know Manu's not supposed to be the sharpest crayon in the box, but jesus christ, you would've thought even he would've recognised this as a poor idea.

As for Solomona, I didn't think anything could lower my opinion of him. Good work Denny!

Puja

What sanction(s) would you impose?

They are both individually talented, perhaps, but for the greater good of the squad I would publically state that they will not play for England until at least after the World Cup.

Mush wrote:What sanction(s) would you impose?

They are both individually talented, perhaps, but for the greater good of the squad I would publically state that they will not play for England until at least after the World Cup.

What for drinking till 3? Talk about excessive.
the most would be leaving them out of the AI's.

I mean your talking about a 2 year ban from England rugby right? For Drinking.
Calum Clark was back in the England squad not 1 year after breaking another players arm.

Flipping heck. Welcome back Manu.

Ban for the AI's. I think Solomona may be out for a lot longer - Tuilagi offers something no other player can, Solomona not so much.

How dumb is that? That really is no way for pros to behave. There's a time and a place for letting your hair down. During a training camp isnt one of them.

Sanctions? They might miss out in the Autumn.

No bad thing in a way, both players need to go away and earn England spots with form, fitness and behaviour for their clubs. Not sure either truly warranted an England call at this stage, Eddie was banking on potential.

Mush wrote:What sanction(s) would you impose?

They are both individually talented, perhaps, but for the greater good of the squad I would publically state that they will not play for England until at least after the World Cup.

I agree with others that that's way too harsh, but I think a long term, but less absolute, punishment would be where I'd go. No hard and fast ban, but make it clear to them that they're now regarded as liabilities and any 50:50 (or even 60:40) selection decisions will go against them until this incident's forgotten, which could be a long while.

Puja

Morons indeed. I feel like Tuilagi's England career has been hanging in the balance (not really through his actions, but still) and he does this as soon he gets involved again? I'd have understood being hesitant about involving him again after such a long time out of the top level and this will not help at all.

As for Solomona, he was well in to the red shortly after taking to the pitch for England. Does one try change that? He's quite openly doing this for the money so he could at least be professional about it.

Far from having a no-dickheads policy, Jones has pretty much made selecting dickheads a feature of his tenure. A leadership group of Hartley, Billy, Farrell and myself is pretty edgy. It wouldn't surprise me if there were more to this.

Mikey Brown wrote:Morons indeed. I feel like Tuilagi's England career has been hanging in the balance (not really through his actions, but still) and he does this as soon he gets involved again? I'd have understood being hesitant about involving him again after such a long time out of the top level and this will not help at all.

As for Solomona, he was well in to the red shortly after taking to the pitch for England. Does one try change that? He's quite openly doing this for the money so he could at least be professional about it.

Far from having a no-dickheads policy, Jones has pretty much made selecting dickheads a feature of his tenure. A leadership group of Hartley, Billy, Farrell and myself is pretty edgy. It wouldn't surprise me if there were more to this.

QFT.

I would note that, while I don't know I'd like to go for a drink with Hartley, Fazlet and yourself (Billy'd be okay, I think), I don't know the latter two could ever be accused of being unprofessional. They're edgy, rather than a danger to the team. And under Jones, you'd have to say Hartley's mostly joined them in that camp.

Puja

I'd want to know what they were doing in the training camp before taking a view on how serious a transgression this was. Players will be in very different places on the pre season work and not everyone will be tearing it up at this camp, I'd imagine some at just there to have a cup of tea and a chat.

Sending them home from the camp does help to lay down a marker, what the effect is depends on where the player group leans, and they players will be a mix of thinking have a word Eddie but you don't need more than that through to ffs Manu/Solomona get over yourself you idiot and indeed ffs Eddie we know you went for a beer, this isn't an important camp, and I want Manu in the team as I'd like to win.

Digby wrote:I'd want to know what they were doing in the training camp before taking a view on how serious a transgression this was. Players will be in very different places on the pre season work and not everyone will be tearing it up at this camp, I'd imagine some at just there to have a cup of tea and a chat.

Sending them home from the camp does help to lay down a marker, what the effect is depends on where the player group leans, and they players will be a mix of thinking have a word Eddie but you don't need more than that through to ffs Manu/Solomona get over yourself you idiot and indeed ffs Eddie we know you went for a beer, this isn't an important camp, and I want Manu in the team as I'd like to win.

Hasn't it been reported that the punishment was decided by the senior players? in a tour court scenario.

Which Tyler wrote:

Digby wrote:I'd want to know what they were doing in the training camp before taking a view on how serious a transgression this was. Players will be in very different places on the pre season work and not everyone will be tearing it up at this camp, I'd imagine some at just there to have a cup of tea and a chat.

Sending them home from the camp does help to lay down a marker, what the effect is depends on where the player group leans, and they players will be a mix of thinking have a word Eddie but you don't need more than that through to ffs Manu/Solomona get over yourself you idiot and indeed ffs Eddie we know you went for a beer, this isn't an important camp, and I want Manu in the team as I'd like to win.

Hasn't it been reported that the punishment was decided by the senior players? in a tour court scenario.

No idea, equally I've no idea if the senior players would be seen to be leading or acting as teacher's pet in this instance. Does that mean Mike I've Lost all trust in my teammates Brown is stepping up to lay down the law?

Surely, the best action is to ignore both until club reports based on form and attitude over a prolonged period suggest their selection is merited. Any length of ban could merely end in a repeat. They are unfit for selection until they change. What an example to the youngsters!

Excuse me?

Which Tyler wrote:

Digby wrote:I'd want to know what they were doing in the training camp before taking a view on how serious a transgression this was. Players will be in very different places on the pre season work and not everyone will be tearing it up at this camp, I'd imagine some at just there to have a cup of tea and a chat.

Sending them home from the camp does help to lay down a marker, what the effect is depends on where the player group leans, and they players will be a mix of thinking have a word Eddie but you don't need more than that through to ffs Manu/Solomona get over yourself you idiot and indeed ffs Eddie we know you went for a beer, this isn't an important camp, and I want Manu in the team as I'd like to win.

Hasn't it been reported that the punishment was decided by the senior players? in a tour court scenario.

Yes. Unsurprisingly Farrell and Brown have never sent anyone home from a training camp for effing up a simple pass.