RugbyRebels

Right with you Puja.

First and foremost protect and build a strong Premiership. If a few players hop over the channel, so be it. England can build a strong squad off the back of a strong premiership.

Surely a strong England team is built off a strong domestic rugby structure. Does that have to be the premiership?

What are you suggesting? We’ll have diminished prem teams doing well in Europe or a different setup entirely? I don’t get where else you would be talking about.

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 6:46 pm Surely a strong England team is built off a strong domestic rugby structure. Does that have to be the premiership?

Not necessarily, but it'd be a bold move to utterly rip up everything and start again with something like a regional structure, considering there are 27 years of building up professional rugby around clubs and the 45k who watch Leicester and Northampton every other week might not be keen on transferring that allegiance to "the East Midlands Holy Cats".

That's not to mention that the players' contracts all belong to the clubs, or that there's a few people with quite a bit invested in the clubs as they are - can't imagine Bruce Craig or Steve Lansdown handing over the keys with a smile and a nod.

Puja

Yeah, I don't have any better ideas personally but I don't think one should always assume that the premiership must be part of English rugby's system. If some bright spark can envision a convincing alternative then it should be considered. Part of the reason we got in this mess is because there was insufficient imagination at the beginning.

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 8:45 pm Yeah, I don't have any better ideas personally but I don't think one should always assume that the premiership must be part of English rugby's system. If some bright spark can envision a convincing alternative then it should be considered. Part of the reason we got in this mess is because there was insufficient imagination at the beginning.

Possibly, but I think that opportunity was permanently missed many years ago, and there's no going back to starting from a blank slate.

If I was building the ideal setup for the England team, it'd probably still have a 10 team Prem, but with four or five RFU-owned regions playing in the ERC, with very strict rules of only 3 non EQP in a matchday XXIII (and with the RFU able to move players around as needed). Would require the ERC to be played in a bloc at one end of the season (which the French wouldn't like), but I wouldn't mind that at all. Completely impractical, but it'd be the best structure for funnelling players towards England.

Puja

https://x.com/premrugby/status/17070812 ... MV3j-SK8yQ

‘Virimi Vakatawa, one of the most talented players on the planet, will make his explosive return to rugby in a Bristol Bears jersey.

The barnstorming French international, who has made 31 appearances for his country, is formerly of European giants Racing 92 and was nominated for European Player of the Year in 2020.

Following an independent review by an expert panel of leading sports cardiologists, Vakatawa has been granted clearance to return to the professional game and agrees a deal until the end of the 2023/24 season.

The 31-year-old scored 49 tries for Racing in 146 appearances, making his name as one of the most dangerous backs in the world.‘

Well that could definitely be fun if he’s even half the player he was a couple of years back, and a good fit for Bristol.

Has he been playing since leaving Racing?

Hopefully he's kept in decent shape!

BJVR should make some room for him and with Ravouvou outside him we'll have a decent threat - just need the pack to get some ball!

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:56 pm Well that could definitely be fun if he’s even half the player he was a couple of years back, and a good fit for Bristol.

Has he been playing since leaving Racing?

No, he was barred after a doctor said he might die if he carried on playing and only made a comeback last month for the Barbarians. You have to presume he's done his due diligence with some very good doctors to confirm that the whole "might die" thing isn't still a going concern.

Puja

The panel of cardiologists must have been pretty definitive otherwise the cost of medical insurance would have been eye watering and no professional sportsmen is going to take to the field without insurance.

Potentially a game changer of a signing by Bristol.

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 10:01 pm The panel of cardiologists must have been pretty definitive otherwise the cost of medical insurance would have been eye watering and no professional sportsmen is going to take to the field without insurance.

Potentially a game changer of a signing by Bristol.

Yeah, fair point. Bookies ain't got nothing on a panel of actuaries - if they're willing to cover him, he'll be okay.

Shame it's only a single season contract though. Suggests he's on a cut rate to prove himself and has an eye on earning something more lucrative back in France for next year.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 10:24 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 10:01 pm The panel of cardiologists must have been pretty definitive otherwise the cost of medical insurance would have been eye watering and no professional sportsmen is going to take to the field without insurance.

Potentially a game changer of a signing by Bristol.

Yeah, fair point. Bookies ain't got nothing on a panel of actuaries - if they're willing to cover him, he'll be okay.

Shame it's only a single season contract though. Suggests he's on a cut rate to prove himself and has an eye on earning something more lucrative back in France for next year.

Puja

Will the French league allow him to play? They have stricter medical requirements.

Also the salary cap goes back up next season doesn't it? Small contract now but could be a chunky one coming next summer if he proves himself.

He won't be covered in France but the UK has less strict laws. It's why Figallo ended up playing for Sarries few years back.

Don't know what the rule is about playing in European competitions mind

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 7:36 am Will the French league allow him to play? They have stricter medical requirements.

Also the salary cap goes back up next season doesn't it? Small contract now but could be a chunky one coming next summer if he proves himself.

Think he played for the Baa Baas in France recently, so he should be ok to play in France.

I assume that's the play, cheap one year deal to prove he's worth it & then a proper deal after.

Edited to add - there's a comment in Vakatawa thread on the unofficial site that Bristol have signed a marquee 2nd row for next year. No names yet, but with the world cup on it could well be announced after. Fingers crossed as we do need a big unit to drive the pack... Are Etzebeth or RG Snyman signed up anywhere for next year?

Synman is signed up at Munster I think

Peej wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 9:12 pm Synman is signed up at Munster I think

Snyman's contract expires next summer so could potentially be available. His injury record isn't the best though.

There's a few locks in South Africa that might fancy a post world cup move. Jacques du Plessis moved to the Bulls from Montpellier but can't seem to break into the national side. He's a unit but mobile enough to have played games on the blindside. He'd fit in well for Bristol. Marvin Orie might be another less well known option, good lineout lock and at the world cup with SA currently. He's 30 and not played outside of SA previously so might fancy cashing in.

Orie is joining Lyon if I heard right on the commentary. Imagine Kleyn might be looking for a move as can't think the IRFU will pay his salary now he isn't Ireland qualified anymore

I don’t get how Orie is an international.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 2:21 pm I don’t get how Orie is an international.

South Africa are a set piece centred team and he's very good at leading the lineout?

FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 2:37 pm

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 2:21 pm I don’t get how Orie is an international.

South Africa are a set piece centred team and he's very good at leading the lineout?

I feel like all I’ve ever seen him do is drop the ball, but maybe that’s my selective memory.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 3:16 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 2:37 pm

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 2:21 pm I don’t get how Orie is an international.

South Africa are a set piece centred team and he's very good at leading the lineout?

I feel like all I’ve ever seen him do is drop the ball, but maybe that’s my selective memory.

He seems to lead the lineout whenever I see him play and I don't notice him much outside of that but he must be handy as the Boks aren't exactly short on good locks. We're Jenkins and du Plessis available for any of England, Scotland, Wales for instance then they wouldn't be sat a home for this tournament.

Tigers have signed Ben Woollett from Jersey. 6ft5 winger originally from Australia. It's a short term contract so probably injury cover for Simmons who pulled up injured at the weekend, Tigers aren't exactly over flowing with wing options anyways.

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 1:37 pm

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 3:16 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 2:37 pm

South Africa are a set piece centred team and he's very good at leading the lineout?

I feel like all I’ve ever seen him do is drop the ball, but maybe that’s my selective memory.

He seems to lead the lineout whenever I see him play and I don't notice him much outside of that but he must be handy as the Boks aren't exactly short on good locks. We're Jenkins and du Plessis available for any of England, Scotland, Wales for instance then they wouldn't be sat a home for this tournament.

Tigers have signed Ben Woollett from Jersey. 6ft5 winger originally from Australia. It's a short term contract so probably injury cover for Simmons who pulled up injured at the weekend, Tigers aren't exactly over flowing with wing options anyways.

I assume Wigglesworth isn't too fussed about that. Must have a host of 13's that could 'do a job'.

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 1:49 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 1:37 pm

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 3:16 pm

I feel like all I’ve ever seen him do is drop the ball, but maybe that’s my selective memory.

He seems to lead the lineout whenever I see him play and I don't notice him much outside of that but he must be handy as the Boks aren't exactly short on good locks. We're Jenkins and du Plessis available for any of England, Scotland, Wales for instance then they wouldn't be sat a home for this tournament.

Tigers have signed Ben Woollett from Jersey. 6ft5 winger originally from Australia. It's a short term contract so probably injury cover for Simmons who pulled up injured at the weekend, Tigers aren't exactly over flowing with wing options anyways.

I assume Wigglesworth isn't too fussed about that. Must have a host of 13's that could 'do a job'.

Wigglesworth isn't there anymore he's with England.

McKellar seems to like his wingers to be ball so suspect we might be needing more options. There's a certain type we are looking at though, OHC, Bassett and now Woollett all joining his summer are all pretty sizeable with Bassett the smallest at 6ft2 15st. Kata might be used as an emergency wing like he has been for Tonga as well.

Hard to judge from pre season/PRC games but it certainly looks like Tigers are standing flankers in the 15m channels to try and facilitate playing wider and supporting the backline. Be interesting to see how that looks come Prem kick off.

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 2:21 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 1:49 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 1:37 pm

He seems to lead the lineout whenever I see him play and I don't notice him much outside of that but he must be handy as the Boks aren't exactly short on good locks. We're Jenkins and du Plessis available for any of England, Scotland, Wales for instance then they wouldn't be sat a home for this tournament.

Tigers have signed Ben Woollett from Jersey. 6ft5 winger originally from Australia. It's a short term contract so probably injury cover for Simmons who pulled up injured at the weekend, Tigers aren't exactly over flowing with wing options anyways.

I assume Wigglesworth isn't too fussed about that. Must have a host of 13's that could 'do a job'.

Wigglesworth isn't there anymore he's with England.

He is staying with England? Christ on a bike!!! ............... I thought it was just temporary.

Is there no end to this pain.