Anti-Zionism

[Zhivago]

Well call me a bit of a bluff old stater of the bleeding obvious, but the IDF has tended to maintain a pretty rigid monopoly in the killing of Palestinians, so the question as to who is doing it isn't one that needs emphasising.

How about I write the headline and you tell me what you think:

"How many more unarmed Palestinians will the IDF kill when the French move their Embassy to occupied Jerusalem?"

"Israeli army kills dozens of Palestinians and injures hundreds more during US embassy protests."

Would be the most informative headline while still being concise.

Hey now hold on a fecking minute!

From the Guardian Live - "Israeli troops kill dozens of Palestinians in protests as US embassy opens in Jerusalem – live updates."

Yer a fecking mole, Zhivago!

Good. Still think that it's important to consider how modern (subtle) propaganda functions.

[Stom]

Good god, that's not propaganda, that's journalism. The second headline includes everything, so why would you click through? The guardian one implies, leading to a click for more info. Thus it has served its purpose.

[rowan]

Agree with Zhivago but I just find the American mainstream media so much worse than its British counterpart that the latter hardly bothers me at all. They have repeatedly described these protests as violent, when the only violence is being perpetrated by the heavily armed Israeli soldiers, and they repeatedly describe anything Israel does as retaliation. & when it just gets too blatant and gory to lie anymore, they simply ignore the issue and run stories about anti-Semitism or the dastardly Hezbollah making threats against Israel. In fact, the only story about Israel featuring atop the Yahoo News headlines at the moment refers to Israeli retaliation after a missile was fired at it by the Lebanese militant group. No mention of the fact that the Israeli troops who came under fire are occupying Syrian territory in violation of international law...

[Digby]

Many of the protests are violent. Whether such violence justifies the shootings is a different question, but throwing stones, throwing molotov cocktails, charging the fence in numbers, floating incendiary devices over the fence on kites (not that sort) and the like are all violent actions.

In many instances I'd simply say if you poke a bear don't be surprised when it rips off your head and eats you, but the desperation caused by the economic blockades does change the story somewhat

[rowan]

Many of the protests are violent. Whether such violence justifies the shootings is a different question, but throwing stones, throwing molotov cocktails, charging the fence in numbers, floating incendiary devices over the fence on kites (not that sort) and the like are all violent actions.

In many instances I'd simply say if you poke a bear don't be surprised when it rips off your head and eats you, but the desperation caused by the economic blockades does change the story somewhat

Strange, we had live coverage of the demonstrations on Turkish news all day today and I didn't see any examples of the above. I've seen video clips of youths being shot as well, and they were not engaging in any of the above acts. & even if they were, it is absurd to suggest that warrants a bullet in the head - or the legs if you're lucky. That's a mentality reminiscent of Apartheid South Africa (literally, that's what they used to say, and I'm old enough to remember). & let's not forget that a number of clearly marked journalists and medical staff have also been killed and wounded. Perhaps the level of alleged violence is best summed up by the fact not a solitary Israeli soldier has been reported wounded - while over a hundred Palestinians have been murdered and thousands more injured (many seriously) since these unarmed demonstrations began.

[Digby]

Many of the protests are violent. Whether such violence justifies the shootings is a different question, but throwing stones, throwing molotov cocktails, charging the fence in numbers, floating incendiary devices over the fence on kites (not that sort) and the like are all violent actions.

In many instances I'd simply say if you poke a bear don't be surprised when it rips off your head and eats you, but the desperation caused by the economic blockades does change the story somewhat

Strange, we had live coverage of the demonstrations on Turkish news all day today and I didn't see any examples of the above. I've seen video clips of youths being shot as well, and they were not engaging in any of the above acts. & even if they were, it is absurd to suggest that warrants a bullet in the head - or the legs if you're lucky. That's a mentality reminiscent of Apartheid South Africa (literally, that's what they used to say, and I'm old enough to remember). & let's not forget that a number of clearly marked journalists and medical staff have also been killed and wounded. Perhaps the level of alleged violence is best summed up by the fact not a solitary Israeli soldier has been reported wounded - while over a hundred Palestinians have been murdered and thousands more injured (many seriously) since these unarmed demonstrations began.

Ah, you're watching propaganda then

[morepork]

Agree with Zhivago but I just find the American mainstream media so much worse than its British counterpart that the latter hardly bothers me at all. They have repeatedly described these protests as violent, when the only violence is being perpetrated by the heavily armed Israeli soldiers, and they repeatedly describe anything Israel does as retaliation. & when it just gets too blatant and gory to lie anymore, they simply ignore the issue and run stories about anti-Semitism or the dastardly Hezbollah making threats against Israel. In fact, the only story about Israel featuring atop the Yahoo News headlines at the moment refers to Israeli retaliation after a missile was fired at it by the Lebanese militant group. No mention of the fact that the Israeli troops who came under fire are occupying Syrian territory in violation of international law...

Yahoo fucking news? Seriously? Statements Blaming Hamas et.al. have been reported here as coming solely from the White house and the Israeli government.

[rowan]

Many of the protests are violent. Whether such violence justifies the shootings is a different question, but throwing stones, throwing molotov cocktails, charging the fence in numbers, floating incendiary devices over the fence on kites (not that sort) and the like are all violent actions.

In many instances I'd simply say if you poke a bear don't be surprised when it rips off your head and eats you, but the desperation caused by the economic blockades does change the story somewhat

Strange, we had live coverage of the demonstrations on Turkish news all day today and I didn't see any examples of the above. I've seen video clips of youths being shot as well, and they were not engaging in any of the above acts. & even if they were, it is absurd to suggest that warrants a bullet in the head - or the legs if you're lucky. That's a mentality reminiscent of Apartheid South Africa (literally, that's what they used to say, and I'm old enough to remember). & let's not forget that a number of clearly marked journalists and medical staff have also been killed and wounded. Perhaps the level of alleged violence is best summed up by the fact not a solitary Israeli soldier has been reported wounded - while over a hundred Palestinians have been murdered and thousands more injured (many seriously) since these unarmed demonstrations began.

Ah, you're watching propaganda then

Watching live coverage, you mean. Is that propaganda? Or is describing the execution of 55 unarmed demonstrators - mostly youths - by heavily armed Israeli snipers as violent clashes propaganda? There are no more prolific agents of propaganda in this world than the US and British mainstream media indstries. Indeed, propaganda has been a crucial part in the machinery of these, the two most rapacious empires of recent history. That's why there are so many brainwashed morons trying to justify and play down this blatant bloodbath at the moment.

[morepork]

Who is trying to play this outrage down?

[rowan]

Death toll appears to have gone up to 58. A further 2771 have been injured, including over 100 women and girls. Many of the injured will be crippled for life, as Israeli snipers like to shoot youths in the legs. You will notice also (if you saw the live coverage) the abundance of tear gas being fired without provocation. Eerily reminiscent of the scenes I recall from my childhood of the Apartheid regime in South Africa.

Here's one man who speaks his mindL

[rowan]

The snipers weren't firing into this unarmed demonstration, however. & nobody from mainstream media covered it either:

[Zhivago]

Israel has killed more people trying to cross the border than East Germany killed trying to cross the Berlin wall in its history.

[canta_brian]

Who is trying to play this outrage down?

I am yet to read a newspaper report or hear a radio or TV report that is anything but entirely critical of Israel and America. I am guessing the UK counts as western but Rowan's narrative is not playing out here from what I have seen.

[rowan]

Disgusting

Passive media whitewash Israel’s massacre in Gaza

As Israel slaughtered dozens of unarmed Palestinians in Gaza this week, prominent media outlets employed innocuous headlines to obscure the horrific reality.

In the video above, RT correspondent Anya Parampil points to some examples of what she calls “an almost across the board obfuscation of Israel’s responsibility for the violence.”

A BBC headline read for instance, “Gaza’s deadliest day of violence in years,” while The Guardian ran with “Fatal clashes in Gaza after opening of US embassy.”

The word “clashes,” Parampil observes, “would lead you to believe there are casualties or injuries on the Israeli side.”

In fact after seven weeks in which Israel has killed some 100 Palestinians and injured 12,600 others, Israel has reported one minor injury to a soldier.

Parampil also criticizes the overemphasis on the opening of the US embassy in Jerusalem, obscuring that the protests have largely been driven by Palestinian resistance to more than a decade of Israel’s siege of Gaza and 70 years of dispossession since the Nakba, the 1948 ethnic cleansing of Palestine before and after Israel was founded.

Parampil notes that after fierce criticism on social media, The New York Times changed one of its notorious passive-voice headlines – “At least 28 Palestinians die in protests as US prepares to open Jerusalem embassy” – to the more straightforward: “Israeli troops kill dozens of Palestinian protesters as US embassy opens in Jerusalem.”

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/al ... sacre-gaza

[rowan]

Israel-based British journalist Jonathan Cook saying pretty much the same thing, with quotes from renowned Jewish-American intellectual Noam Chomsky - along with veteran documentary maker and multi-award-winning Australian journalist John Pilger:

I've never known journalism to be so distorted in order to serve this propaganda [...] What we're seeing is the most intense campaign of propaganda at least since the build-up to the Iraq war in 2003.'

http://medialens.org/index.php/alerts/a ... ussia.html

[WaspInWales]

Disgusting

Passive media whitewash Israel’s massacre in Gaza

As Israel slaughtered dozens of unarmed Palestinians in Gaza this week, prominent media outlets employed innocuous headlines to obscure the horrific reality.

In the video above, RT correspondent Anya Parampil points to some examples of what she calls “an almost across the board obfuscation of Israel’s responsibility for the violence.”

A BBC headline read for instance, “Gaza’s deadliest day of violence in years,” while The Guardian ran with “Fatal clashes in Gaza after opening of US embassy.”

The word “clashes,” Parampil observes, “would lead you to believe there are casualties or injuries on the Israeli side.”

In fact after seven weeks in which Israel has killed some 100 Palestinians and injured 12,600 others, Israel has reported one minor injury to a soldier.

Parampil also criticizes the overemphasis on the opening of the US embassy in Jerusalem, obscuring that the protests have largely been driven by Palestinian resistance to more than a decade of Israel’s siege of Gaza and 70 years of dispossession since the Nakba, the 1948 ethnic cleansing of Palestine before and after Israel was founded.

Parampil notes that after fierce criticism on social media, The New York Times changed one of its notorious passive-voice headlines – “At least 28 Palestinians die in protests as US prepares to open Jerusalem embassy” – to the more straightforward: “Israeli troops kill dozens of Palestinian protesters as US embassy opens in Jerusalem.”

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/al ... sacre-gaza

Tbf, completely valid point.

Whilst UK outlets have been at least critical of IDF actions, it has been reported as a two-way conflict and it's anything but that.

Israel have taken the piss (again) and got away with it (again), and they will do so AGAIN.

[rowan]

A royal disgrace

(it's worth noting, also, that the handful of nations planning to follow America's lead and move their embassies to Jerusalem - in violation of international law - are either under America's control or receiving extensive financial aid from the US):

"Nevertheless, a spokesman for Buckingham Palace told MEE on Tuesday that there was “no change” and that the visit was due to go ahead as planned. He said further details, including the date of the visit, would be announced in due course.

William's father Charles, the Prince of Wales, is due to represent the royal family next week at the Royal Albert Hall in London for "Pllatinum - Israel at 70", the Jewish community's celebration of the 70th anniversary Israel's founding."

AlJazeera has apparently published a list of countries which sent representatives to the US embassy's opening ceremony in Jerusalem yesterday. Unfortunately, even if their populations are generally NOT in favour of Israel's occupation and oppression of Palestinians, most of these are poor countries under military dictatorships, or else heavily dependent on US 'aid' (including military). But what about countries like Britain or its EU partners, which have democratically elected governments with no pressing need to suck up to Israel? What is their excuse? Not to mention all those Arab league countries, including Saudi Arabia, who might not have attended the opening ceremony but behind the scenes have been busy doing deals with Israel and betraying the Palestinians and destroying other Arab countries (Yemen and Syria). Unsurprisingly, Qatar-based AlJazeera would rather point the finger at these poor countries rather than focus on own their complicity.

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/revea ... -550308310

[Digby]

It's not hard to spot Egypt and Saudi Arabia are all but silent for the moment. Turkey is making some noise of the near neighbours, but Israel, the Kingdom and Egypt seem much more focused on Iran

[rowan]

The Egyptian and Saudi dictatorships are financially dependent on the US, of course, while our glorious leader is saying all the right things with the elections upcoming but continues to do business with the apartheid regime.

[Stones of granite]

The Egyptian and Saudi dictatorships are financially dependent on the US, of course, while our glorious leader is saying all the right things with the elections upcoming but continues to do business with the apartheid regime.

What?

[rowan]

US imports from Saudi are worth about 20 billion annually, so it is certainly a vital trading partner, while US aid to Egypt is currently at 1.5 billion annually - second only to Israel. It's not to suggest either would collapse overnight without the US, only that they'd rather not do or say anything which might jeopardize such a major source of income.

[Stones of granite]

US imports from Saudi are worth about 20 billion annually, so it is certainly a vital trading partner, while US aid to Egypt is currently at 1.5 billion annually - second only to Israel. It's not to suggest either would collapse overnight without the US, only that they'd rather not do or say anything which might jeopardize such a major source of income.

You know, for someone who sits mightily on his high horse about use of the English language, and is (or has been) a journalist of some kind or another, your use of language can be remarkably imprecise. Perhaps it's deliberate.

[rowan]

US imports from Saudi are worth about 20 billion annually, so it is certainly a vital trading partner, while US aid to Egypt is currently at 1.5 billion annually - second only to Israel. It's not to suggest either would collapse overnight without the US, only that they'd rather not do or say anything which might jeopardize such a major source of income.

You know, for someone who sits mightily on his high horse about use of the English language, and is (or has been) a journalist of some kind or another, your use of language can be remarkably imprecise. Perhaps it's deliberate.

In fact, Stones, it is you who is mostly concerned with getting up on your high horse and attempting to appease your own ego, and that is evident in the ad hominem approach you have once again taken here. I couldn't care less about my use of language on this forum, while it is obvious you care even less about the issues being discussed. Indeed, imprecise is a worse I would use to describe some of the observations you have made on this forum, notably with regards to Turkey and Syria.

[Stones of granite]

US imports from Saudi are worth about 20 billion annually, so it is certainly a vital trading partner, while US aid to Egypt is currently at 1.5 billion annually - second only to Israel. It's not to suggest either would collapse overnight without the US, only that they'd rather not do or say anything which might jeopardize such a major source of income.

You know, for someone who sits mightily on his high horse about use of the English language, and is (or has been) a journalist of some kind or another, your use of language can be remarkably imprecise. Perhaps it's deliberate.

Usual pompous bollox

Stop deliberately misleading people then talking bollox when pulled up on it. Is that clear enough for you, tosspot?

[rowan]

You know, for someone who sits mightily on his high horse about use of the English language, and is (or has been) a journalist of some kind or another, your use of language can be remarkably imprecise. Perhaps it's deliberate.

Usual fucking bollox

Stop deliberately misleading people then talking bollox when pulled up on it. Is that clear enough for you, tosspot?

You need to stop side-tracking the issue with personal attacks and being a condescending twat. Now, back to the topic...

The Turkish government is now calling for Israel to be hauled up before the International Criminal Court, but we all know the only ones who go there are Africans and Slavs, which is why the Africans have set up their own criminal court and are beginning to withdraw from the ICC.