RugbyRebels

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:02 pm Do any of those coaches assume they keep their job if Eddie goes anyway? Lots of odd ‘news’ like that today.

I had kinda assumed that any new coach would be bringing in his own backroom team, so who on earth amongst Eddie's assistants would be actively trying to work against him...?

Ah, yes. That makes sense. Coup incoming.

Puja

I suppose in a ‘caretaker’ situation they might not want to spend time swapping out the whole crew, but it’s hard to imagine many top coaches signing on to that.

I’m not sure even sure how Cockerill/Proudfoot work together anyway.

The RFU have been quite stingy post world cup with hiring the requested assistants if they are in contract. It might be a sticking point with their HC negotiations.

Good luck getting a top quality HC if they can’t appoint their own assistants. Borthwick might be the only exception to that and even then he’s bound to want to bring in one or two of his own.

Borthwick's a "top quality" HC?

Borthwick, Sinfield and Aled Walters according to rumours/reports.

Timbo wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 8:55 pm Borthwick, Sinfield and Aled Walters according to rumours/reports.

I'd be surprised if the RFU having just inked the deal on a new defence coach bin him off and hire Sinfield a defence coach with barely any experience instead. Walters would be a brilliant addition pre world cup but he's also a proud Welshman so it's not a given he'd come.

Tigers seem to be planning for Borthwick going, they've apparently already contacted a few agents to sound out potential interest. MacDonald at the Auckland Blues is one according to the rumours.

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:09 pm

Timbo wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 8:55 pm Borthwick, Sinfield and Aled Walters according to rumours/reports.

I'd be surprised if the RFU having just inked the deal on a new defence coach bin him off and hire Sinfield a defence coach with barely any experience instead. Walters would be a brilliant addition pre world cup but he's also a proud Welshman so it's not a given he'd come.

Tigers seem to be planning for Borthwick going, they've apparently already contacted a few agents to sound out potential interest. MacDonald at the Auckland Blues is one according to the rumours.

Walters has recently been on record saying that he wants another go at international rugby and at a world cup: https://12ft.io/proxy?&q=https%3A%2F%2F ... relentless

Together, Borthwick and Walters have been major figures in the resurgence of Leicester. One day, they may well return to the Test arena. It speaks volumes for Walters’ ambition that winning the World Cup with South Africa served to stoke a nagging thought rather then encourage him to relax. He is eager to add to his winner’s medal.

“I want another one,” Walters finishes. “The aspiration would be to take Leicester as far as possible. I am fully focused on seeing this group achieve all that they can. That’s number one – let’s do as much as we can here. The long-term goal, though, and I’ve only said this to the missus, I think, is that I want to get to a World Cup final with a different nation at some stage.

“That would be a genuine test because, at the back of my mind, I’ve felt myself go sometimes: ‘Were the Boks always going to win it, with the quality of player and calibre of athlete that they have?’

“That would be the biggest test for me. Can I work with another nation and at least get to a final? That’s the long-term goal, anyway.”

Puja

To be fair I was surprised he joined Tigers in the first place, though he is Loughborough University alumni and part of his studying involved working with Dosser Smith so maybe there was some connection.

He might well go but at the same time I'd expect him to be also looking at who was coming in. Borthwick is unusual in that one of his two lieutenants is the S&C coach. If he was going to be allowed to be as central with England or whether the next Tigers HC was going to be more or less receptive might push him one way or the other. He's not been afraid of taking new challenges.

I do wonder if Wales will come calling. They certainly should be looking for an edge. The Twitter reactions from the Boks player suggests they thought he was pretty key to their world cup win and Pollard noted wanting to work with him again as one of the reasons he came to Tigers.

Borthwick will clearly want some of his own staff. And he has a pretty strong hand given the RFU’s relative desperation. The chances of Sinfield and/or Walters turning it down if offered? Minimal.

So looks like he's gone. And Borthwick in. Interesting.

If Borthwick takes Walters and Sinfield, then the only thing he's missing to cover the main bases is an attack coach. The obvious answer is Vesty, but that might be an extra chunk of change that the RFU might not want to spend, given they'd be compensating Leicester for three members of staff, and he might not want to bail on Saints mid-season. Anyone think of anyone else who might fit the bill?

I suppose there is an outside risk that he might want to take Wigglesworth with him, but I hope not, for England's sake. Wiggy might be a good coach in years to come, but he's a long way from being ready yet.

Puja

Borthwick- Headcoach/lineout
Sinfield- Defence
Proudfoot- Scrum
Gleeson- Attack
Walters- S&C
Cockers- P45?

Timbo wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:56 pm Borthwick- Headcoach/lineout
Sinfield- Defence
Proudfoot- Scrum
Gleeson- Attack
Walters- S&C
Cockers- P45?

Is that your preference, your prediction, a compelling rumour?

Not sure about keeping Proudfoot. Granted, he's got pedigree having worked with the Boks, but he's not been hugely impressive for our scrums so far. Same with Gleeson in attack, albeit I can make more of a case as he would provide the continuity for all the plans that Eddie allegedly had stored up for "later on". Depends if we actually were holding stuff back or if what we've seen is the best that our attack has got to offer.

Puja

Dont know if its been mentioned...Replacement for Borthwick....Steve Diamond?

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 8:27 pm Borthwick's a "top quality" HC?

Let’s hope so.

Tigger wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:44 am Dont know if its been mentioned...Replacement for Borthwick....Steve Diamond?

He might do as a short term option because the three key decision makers all leaving Tigers at the same time would us right in the cacky. Longer term I'd expect us to go for someone more innovative.

We'd have Brett Deacon as forwards coach, Harrison scrum coach and Wiggy/Smith as backs/attack coach. We have Everard with the academy squad who was Wasps defence coach who could step up in the short term. Just need someone with experience and vision to pull them together. Maybe bring back Louis Deacon from England Ladies to work with his brother on the forward coaching.

I'm rather hoping we keep Borthwick, Sinfield and Walters to at least the start of the 6N. Somewhat irritating that the RFU avoided paying out for coaches like Vesty and giving Eddie the back room staff he needed but are now quite happy to hit the panic button and splurge so much paying him off and buying out half the Tigers coaching staff. I hope Borthwick has insisted on a list of staff based demands so he can pull together the best coaches from the league and not be fobbed off with the RFU doing it on the cheap as seems to be the case in recent times.

Porter is going to start every game from now on isn’t he.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:00 am Porter is going to start every game from now on isn’t he.

What a thought to start the working day with.

Tigger wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:44 am Dont know if its been mentioned...Replacement for Borthwick....Steve Diamond?

Isn’t he part of the/a consortium looking to buy Worcester?

I really hope he brings in some fresh blood - kind of worried he doesn't go for the more expansive game I was hoping.

Frying pan to sous vide

Its a gamble. Jones has been failing but has the WC experience and maybe had just enough time to fashion a truly competitive team. I can only assume that he failed to convince the panel of his masterplan. That, and i just think he's upset too many people and is proving to be a right pain in the arse to work with. He's run out of road.

Is appointing Borthwick on a permanent contract the right decision? There are pros and cons with the biggest 'pro' the departure of Jones obviously. However, taking the decision to ditch Jones three years too late and in something of a muddled hurry makes me wonder if it is a mistake not to appoint a caretaker set-up. Is it a fully reasoned decision or panic to go straight for Borthwick?

I wish Borthwick well despite misgivings.

I will wait to see what sort of deal is unveiled but I am concerned the mistakes that were made around Lancaster are being made again.

I also find it concerning that it is all leaking again.