RugbyRebels

Youngs and Ben Curry gone......from the 29. And Watson!

I guess that means Friday announcement for a Sunday game.

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:59 pm Youngs and Ben Curry gone......from the 29. And Watson!

The Borth giveth with one hand and taketh with the other.

I also feel compelled to tell you that Stephen Jones has agreed that the Smith - Farrell combo is not working and suggests that England should ape Scotland by selecting a “mercurial” flyhalf and a big, hard running centre. The mercurial flyhalf Jones suggests is, of course, Farrell. He also informed us that England wouldn’t have lost the match were Farrell playing at 10…

So, in the 23 Willis for Curry as the only change in the forwards?

As for the backs, apart from the 9/21 who now have to be JVP/Mitchell, I can't guess. There are five back-three players, so two, at least will presumably not be involved. I'm surprised Tuilagi and Fin Smith are retained.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:31 pm I also feel compelled to tell you that Stephen Jones has agreed that the Smith - Farrell combo is not working and suggests that England should ape Scotland by selecting a “mercurial” flyhalf and a big, hard running centre. The mercurial flyhalf Jones suggests is, of course, Farrell. He also informed us that England wouldn’t have lost the match were Farrell playing at 10…

Why do you want to hurt us with knowledge like this.

Puja

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:31 pm I also feel compelled to tell you that Stephen Jones has agreed that the Smith - Farrell combo is not working and suggests that England should ape Scotland by selecting a “mercurial” flyhalf and a big, hard running centre. The mercurial flyhalf Jones suggests is, of course, Farrell. He also informed us that England wouldn’t have lost the match were Farrell playing at 10…

Is he wrong about that?

Feel a bit for Curry. Youngs omission is overdue.

The backline could still throw up any number of alternative selections.

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:59 pm Youngs and Ben Curry gone......from the 29. And Watson!

Genge
Mako
George
Walker
Dunn
Sinckler
Cole
Itoje
Chessum
Ribbans
Isiekwe
Ludlam
Willis
Earl
Dombrandt

JVP
Mitchell
Smith
Farrell
Smith
Lawrence
Marchant
Slade
Manu
Malins
OHC
Freeman
Arundell
Steward

2 forwards and 4 backs to drop. In the forwards that's Dunn/Walker and Isiekwe/Ribbans, and in the backs, that's almost certainly FSmith and 3 of Lawrence/Marchant/Slade/Manu/OHC/Freeman/Arundell.

Puja

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:43 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:31 pm I also feel compelled to tell you that Stephen Jones has agreed that the Smith - Farrell combo is not working and suggests that England should ape Scotland by selecting a “mercurial” flyhalf and a big, hard running centre. The mercurial flyhalf Jones suggests is, of course, Farrell. He also informed us that England wouldn’t have lost the match were Farrell playing at 10…

Is he wrong about that?

we win less % of games with him at 10, than with him at 12, fact mcfact. But most of those were with Ford at 10. Just imagine if we'd have had a good 12 all that time

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:43 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:31 pm I also feel compelled to tell you that Stephen Jones has agreed that the Smith - Farrell combo is not working and suggests that England should ape Scotland by selecting a “mercurial” flyhalf and a big, hard running centre. The mercurial flyhalf Jones suggests is, of course, Farrell. He also informed us that England wouldn’t have lost the match were Farrell playing at 10…

Is he wrong about that?

the fact nobody knows gives him a free run at saying it's so. Just as I can say we wouldn't have lost if Youngs had done the full 80 mins............ on the bench


Anyhoo

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:52 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:59 pm Youngs and Ben Curry gone......from the 29. And Watson!

Genge
Mako
George
Walker
Dunn
Sinckler
Cole
Itoje
Chessum
Ribbans
Isiekwe
Ludlam
Willis
Earl
Dombrandt

JVP
Mitchell
Smith
Farrell
Smith
Lawrence
Marchant
Slade
Manu
Malins
OHC
Freeman
Arundell
Steward

2 forwards and 4 backs to drop. In the forwards that's Dunn/Walker and Isiekwe/Ribbans, and in the backs, that's almost certainly FSmith and 3 of Lawrence/Marchant/Slade/Manu/OHC/Freeman/Arundell.

Puja

/malins/Steward

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:43 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:31 pm I also feel compelled to tell you that Stephen Jones has agreed that the Smith - Farrell combo is not working and suggests that England should ape Scotland by selecting a “mercurial” flyhalf and a big, hard running centre. The mercurial flyhalf Jones suggests is, of course, Farrell. He also informed us that England wouldn’t have lost the match were Farrell playing at 10…

Is he wrong about that?

Is he right?

said Fred

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:03 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:43 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:31 pm I also feel compelled to tell you that Stephen Jones has agreed that the Smith - Farrell combo is not working and suggests that England should ape Scotland by selecting a “mercurial” flyhalf and a big, hard running centre. The mercurial flyhalf Jones suggests is, of course, Farrell. He also informed us that England wouldn’t have lost the match were Farrell playing at 10…

Is he wrong about that?

Is he right?

Buggered if I know but I'd rather Farrell was demonstrably comfortable at 10 than obviously uncomfortable at 12. From personal choice, I'd not have him in the squad at all but I think the team's stability and shape improve with him out of the 12 shirt. I think SB's decision to play him AND Smith was a selectorial error. For the sake of SB's theme, clarity, I think Farrell at 10 works with less complications. A 5% improvement in midfield shape could, arguably, have changed defeat into victory. It's a theory, anyway.

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:02 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:52 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:59 pm Youngs and Ben Curry gone......from the 29. And Watson!

Genge
Mako
George
Walker
Dunn
Sinckler
Cole
Itoje
Chessum
Ribbans
Isiekwe
Ludlam
Willis
Earl
Dombrandt

JVP
Mitchell
Smith
Farrell
Smith
Lawrence
Marchant
Slade
Manu
Malins
OHC
Freeman
Arundell
Steward

2 forwards and 4 backs to drop. In the forwards that's Dunn/Walker and Isiekwe/Ribbans, and in the backs, that's almost certainly FSmith and 3 of Lawrence/Marchant/Slade/Manu/OHC/Freeman/Arundell.

Puja

/malins/Steward

You'd like to assume that, if one of those two were dropped from the XV, they would at least make the bench.

Could still be Farrell though. Let's keep hopeful!

Puja

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:11 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:03 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:43 pm

Is he wrong about that?

Is he right?

Buggered if I know

That’s my point. Nobody can know.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:17 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:11 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:03 pm
Is he right?

Buggered if I know

That’s my point. Nobody can know.

I know you mean it as "Nobody has the ability to know," but I prefer to read that as admission that there is a secret cabal dedicated to hiding the truth about Farrell at 10.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:20 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:17 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:11 pm

Buggered if I know

That’s my point. Nobody can know.

I know you mean it as "Nobody has the ability to know," but I prefer to read that as admission that there is a secret cabal dedicated to hiding the truth about Farrell at 10.

Puja

Secret?!?! Hiding plain sight…

If we do have Farrell at 10, he really needs to bring his Saracens form. Otherwise, I don’t see it being any better than what we’ve seen from the ‘axis’ with Smith.

For years, he’s been lauded as world class without ever really backing it up. When he’s at 12, he has a bit of an excuse. If he’s at 10, he really doesn’t.

A poster on another forum summed him up well by describing him as a ‘play runner’ than a playmaker’. In essence, he can execute a structured and pre-planned gameplan, but he can’t play off the cuff.

No Ben Youngs?? That's a positive. He's been a good servant, yada yada, but really he should have gone a while back. With him (and to some extent Care) being selected consistently we didn't blood a lot of other 9s so we don't have much experience there without him .. although we may have more speed getting the ball out of the ruck. So you know, swings and roundabouts

Stevie B mixing it up. Interesting. Makes sense to give Mitchell some game time at some point, Youngs isn't exactly looking international quality but with no one bar JVP with any experience we're short of options. Got to back another option and give them a chance at some point.

Watson has been struggling for fitness so not massively surprised he's not involved. Ben Curry is more of a surprise but maybe he didn't do enough in the eyes of Borthers and with Willis actually present for enough of the training week he's going to get a go instead.

ckeyn wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:16 pm Freeman at 12 eventually? Saw some online commentary on the idea. Size, handling; runs a good line and a good inside defender.

Was that the one which said that, if Earl and Simmonds had been from countries that teach forwards to handle, they'd potentially both be 12s?

Tom Moore wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 8:31 pm

ckeyn wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:16 pm Freeman at 12 eventually? Saw some online commentary on the idea. Size, handling; runs a good line and a good inside defender.

Was that the one which said that, if Earl and Simmonds had been from countries that teach forwards to handle, they'd potentially both be 12s?

So backline full of fullbacks still a goer then? I think Jones suggested Freeman could play 13 and SCW that Steward was the long term answer at 12.

10. Furbank
11. Arundell
12. Steward
13. Freeman
14. Watson
15. Malins

Couple of playmakers, both centres can carry hard and on good lines. We'd be great under the high ball and the crossfield would always be on.

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:14 pm

Tom Moore wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 8:31 pm

ckeyn wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:16 pm Freeman at 12 eventually? Saw some online commentary on the idea. Size, handling; runs a good line and a good inside defender.

Was that the one which said that, if Earl and Simmonds had been from countries that teach forwards to handle, they'd potentially both be 12s?

So backline full of fullbacks still a goer then? I think Jones suggested Freeman could play 13 and SCW that Steward was the long term answer at 12.

10. Furbank
11. Arundell
12. Steward
13. Freeman
14. Watson
15. Malins

Couple of playmakers, both centres can carry hard and on good lines. We'd be great under the high ball and the crossfield would always be on.

Move Malins to 14 and put Carpenter at 15 and then you'd have a full backline of players who have actually played 15.

Actually, JVP's gone to fullback for Leicester before, so we've got a 9 as well.

Puja