RugbyRebels

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:20 am I’ve had colonoscopies that were more entertaining than that!

Poor Henry! Absolutely shafted! The only time he gets the ball he makes a mistake, but then recovers it by taking the catch only for one of the fat twats to not retreat despite Berry shouting it at him five or six times.


I’m genuinely he’s happy going to a club where he’ll get to joue joue!

That’s not very fair. I thought the other props weren’t too bad.

It reads Stuart. He was awful

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:20 am
Poor Henry! Absolutely shafted!

I’m genuinely he’s happy going to a club where he’ll get to joue joue!

This.
After repeatedly calling for him to get some game time perhaps not playing in this team would’ve been better for him. He looked pretty dejected post match.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:00 am

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:20 am
Poor Henry! Absolutely shafted!

I’m genuinely he’s happy going to a club where he’ll get to joue joue!

This.
After repeatedly calling for him to get some game time perhaps not playing in this team would’ve been better for him. He looked pretty dejected post match.

Agree. All very well for Flats to say he has got to go looking for the ball but don’t think it would be welcome under the rigid game plan of kick it away.

Anyway finishes as our top try scorer with Dan coming in second.

FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 10:13 pmThird is a better finish than I expected. It was pretty ugly but the team have at least found a backbone. Our new attack coach has a lot of work to do before the 6N.

We've a new attack coach coming in? who's that?

Stom wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 11:00 pmEddie fucked him about so much, he's off to bloody France. Damn it. Marchant would be so needed right now, he was very good again.

I wanted to mention him as well.
Having managed to watch (or at least, be in the same room as) every minute of England's RWC, I've seen all of 1 tactic that is both good and repeated, both repeated within single matches, and across multiple matches.
Marchant shepherding Farrell away from the ref before he gets penalised for the way he talks to ref.s
Obviously, it didn't work every time, but keeping our captain away from the ref was generally a good, much repeated call

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:28 am

FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 10:13 pmThird is a better finish than I expected. It was pretty ugly but the team have at least found a backbone. Our new attack coach has a lot of work to do before the 6N.

We've a new attack coach coming in? who's that?

Stom wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 11:00 pmEddie fucked him about so much, he's off to bloody France. Damn it. Marchant would be so needed right now, he was very good again.

I wanted to mention him as well.
Having managed to watch (or at least, be in the same room as) every minute of England's RWC, I've seen all of 1 tactic that is both good and repeated, both repeated within single matches, and across multiple matches.
Marchant shepherding Farrell away from the ref before he gets penalised for the way he talks to ref.s
Obviously, it didn't work every time, but keeping our captain away from the ref was generally a good, much repeated call

Two issues there which astound any thinking rugby fan!!

1. Marchant was probably our best back despite seeing little decent ball to play with. Now, he's gone.
2. Farrell, in overall 80 minutes of contribution, is harmful to the team's effectiveness. Yet, the team is built around him.


Yes, we achieved better results than anticipated. But, continue playing in the same style and I suspect English fans will disappear in droves.

p/d wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:18 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:00 am

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:20 am
Poor Henry! Absolutely shafted!

I’m genuinely he’s happy going to a club where he’ll get to joue joue!

This.
After repeatedly calling for him to get some game time perhaps not playing in this team would’ve been better for him. He looked pretty dejected post match.

Agree. All very well for Flats to say he has got to go looking for the ball but don’t think it would be welcome under the rigid game plan of kick it away.

Anyway finishes as our top try scorer with Dan coming in second.

There were a couple of times where he started to come off his wing and you could see him almost tell himself he had to stay wide because of THE PLAN

Didn’t see it. Doesn’t sound like I missed much, other than to my absolute shock Arundell wasn’t able to put his mark on the game.

Seems like Underhill played well though, that’s nice to hear given I’d sort of written him off.

Underhill was great. Back row as a whole were good. Itoje likewise.

Dan just makes me smile. The commitment to make amends after missing the tackle was just magnificent.

England did well to see that out and for first 50 minutes I found that the most watchable England performance of the entire tournament.

Underhill is truly world class! ( alongside Jack Willis he’s our most talented foreword by a significant margin imo). Tom Curry seemed to add a further dimension to his own industrious game when playing alongside with his Kamikazee Kid compatriot and confirmed my view that he’s much more comfortable and effective in that 6 shirt than when playing at 7 ( especially with a lock like Lawes ).

Earl’s a bit of a curate’s egg for me at 8 whilst there’s no doubt of his explosive pace, he doesn’t have the physical power to get over the gainline and is too easily rag dolled backwards at a rate of knots when attempting a direct close quarters carry. Underhill by contrast made several direct powerful carries, breaking the first tackle and gaining hard yards.

I really think Borthwick needs to very seriously look at picking Underhill at 8 and moving Earl back to 7 for the 6 Nations opener, keeping Curry nicely settled at 6. That way we really might have the makings of a Lions class triumvirate.

On other matters:

(I) felt Dan had an excellent match and plays like an extra back row in attack

(I I) I don’t know what his tasking from SB was, bur Arundell really needs to make some more infield movements and go looking for work - England simply aren’t going to supply a pipeline of ball to his wing!

jngf wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 12:02 pm

I really think Borthwick needs to very seriously look at picking Underhill at 8

Really? Are you suggesting another makeshift 8 when there are at least two genuine 8s (Mercer and Willis) waiting in the wings for Bumbling Billy to retire and for Earl to go back to wing forward?

jngf wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 12:02 pm England did well to see that out and for first 50 minutes I found that the most watchable England performance of the entire tournament.

Underhill is truly world class! ( alongside Jack Willis he’s our most talented foreword by a significant margin imo). Tom Curry seemed to add a further dimension to his own industrious game when playing alongside with his Kamikazee Kid compatriot and confirmed my view that he’s much more comfortable and effective in that 6 shirt than when playing at 7 with a lock like Lawes.

Earl’s a bit of a curate’s egg for me at 8 whilst there’s no doubt of his explosive pace, he doesn’t have the physical power to get over the gainline and is too easily rag dolled backwards at a rate of knots when attempting a direct close quarters carry. Underhill by contrast made several direct powerful carries, breaking the first tackle and gaining hard yards.

I really think Borthwick needs to very seriously look at picking Underhill at 8 and moving Earl back to 7 for the 6 Nations opener, keeping Curry nicely settled at 6. That way we really might have the makings of a Lions class triumvirate.

On other matters:

(I) felt Dan had an excellent match and plays like an extra back row in attack

(I I) I don’t know what his tasking from SB was, bur Arundell really needs to make some more infield movements and go looking for work - England simply aren’t going to supply a pipeline of ball to his wing!

Instead of Itoje or Martin you mean?

Agree with Underhill manifesting as different class, with much needed pace and energy combined with expected vigour.
Curry does seem to become more effective too maybe by not having to fill a void left when SU isn't there, and the other flanker is really a lock. A substancial 8 would be good!
Dan has done well, Rodd went ok too.
Don't know who the pie supplier is for Sarries, but Dan, like George looks well fed..
Reckon Smith's Tony Underwood impression (Carreras,) showed the risk of using him at FB in a match like this. Good spirit though.

francoisfou wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 12:16 pm

jngf wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 12:02 pm

I really think Borthwick needs to very seriously look at picking Underhill at 8

Really? Are you suggesting another makeshift 8 when there are at least two genuine 8s (Mercer and Willis) waiting in the wings for Bumbling Billy to retire and for Earl to go back to wing forward?

You just haven’t followed the logic:
Earl played well at 8 but has limitations due to being a 7.
Underhill is a ‘truly world class’ 7.
The obvious answer is to move Underhill to 8.

francoisfou wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 12:16 pm

jngf wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 12:02 pm

I really think Borthwick needs to very seriously look at picking Underhill at 8

Really? Are you suggesting another makeshift 8 when there are at least two genuine 8s (Mercer and Willis) waiting in the wings for Bumbling Billy to retire and for Earl to go back to wing forward?

Yes because neither (T) Willis or Mercer is as good an all round backrow imo (excepting they are good specialists at what they do).

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 12:37 pm

francoisfou wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 12:16 pm

jngf wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 12:02 pm

I really think Borthwick needs to very seriously look at picking Underhill at 8

Really? Are you suggesting another makeshift 8 when there are at least two genuine 8s (Mercer and Willis) waiting in the wings for Bumbling Billy to retire and for Earl to go back to wing forward?

You just haven’t followed the logic:
Earl played well at 8 but has limitations due to being a 7.
Underhill is a ‘truly world class’ 7.
The obvious answer is to move Underhill to 8.

Following the logic is presumably what SB’s been doing to date? All I’m suggesting is at times one needs an element of thinking outside the box to progress e.g. SCW converting Hill from 7 to 6

To be honest trying out Underhill at 8 is hardly radical compared to some of the experiments involving converting players with 50+ caps at lock onto blindside flankers

Why not just play a No8 at 8? We're not exactly short of prospects there. Dombrandt, Mercer, Willis, Barbeary, Fisilau, Chick. Is there a need to convert someone who has not played that position in the hope they.........what? Magically become a world beater? Likelihood? Pretty close to zero.

jngf wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 1:29 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 12:37 pm

francoisfou wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 12:16 pm

Really? Are you suggesting another makeshift 8 when there are at least two genuine 8s (Mercer and Willis) waiting in the wings for Bumbling Billy to retire and for Earl to go back to wing forward?

You just haven’t followed the logic:
Earl played well at 8 but has limitations due to being a 7.
Underhill is a ‘truly world class’ 7.
The obvious answer is to move Underhill to 8.

Following the logic is presumably what SB’s been doing to date? All I’m suggesting is at times one needs an element of thinking outside the box to progress e.g. SCW converting Hill from 7 to 6

To be honest trying out Underhill at 8 is hardly radical compared to some of the experiments involving converting players with 50+ caps at lock onto blindside flankers

If only. I, along with a few others, have questioned his selections since the final squad was announced. For the seemingly billionth time, Lawes has been a full time 6 for the last few years.
I see your next bit of logic is:
Borthwick has made some very illogical decisions so as long as mine are slightly less illogical they must be good.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 12:37 pm

francoisfou wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 12:16 pm

jngf wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 12:02 pm

I really think Borthwick needs to very seriously look at picking Underhill at 8

Really? Are you suggesting another makeshift 8 when there are at least two genuine 8s (Mercer and Willis) waiting in the wings for Bumbling Billy to retire and for Earl to go back to wing forward?

You just haven’t followed the logic:
Earl played well at 8 but has limitations due to being a 7.
Underhill is a ‘truly world class’ 7.
The obvious answer is to move Underhill to 8.

Doh! Didn’t see that! There’s nowt so queer as logic!

francoisfou wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 1:39 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 12:37 pm

francoisfou wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 12:16 pm

Really? Are you suggesting another makeshift 8 when there are at least two genuine 8s (Mercer and Willis) waiting in the wings for Bumbling Billy to retire and for Earl to go back to wing forward?

You just haven’t followed the logic:
Earl played well at 8 but has limitations due to being a 7.
Underhill is a ‘truly world class’ 7.
The obvious answer is to move Underhill to 8.

Doh! Didn’t see that! There’s nowt so queer as logic!

Part of what I’m saying is Earl does have limitations at 8, mainly he’s not very effective carrying in heavy traffic - if moved back to 7 he could bring his pace to bear in the linkman role, mixing it with the backs…for me he’s not the long term answer at 8 I’m afraid

jngf wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 1:46 pm

francoisfou wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 1:39 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 12:37 pm
You just haven’t followed the logic:
Earl played well at 8 but has limitations due to being a 7.
Underhill is a ‘truly world class’ 7.
The obvious answer is to move Underhill to 8.

Doh! Didn’t see that! There’s nowt so queer as logic!

Part of what I’m saying is Earl does have limitations at 8, mainly he’s not very effective carrying in heavy traffic - if moved back to 7 he could bring his pace to bear in the linkman role, mixing it with the backs

Like he did for the try? It’s possible to have Earl play wide and Underhill play tight in phase play without changing their role at scrum time.

Earl made 60 metres last night off 10 carries. He got rocked back once of note, but was by no means alone in that as England ran into brick walls over and over again with the pack.

We made a grand total of 282 metres last night and had a kick to pass ratio of 1:2!

Earl had a magnificent tournament at No 8. It was a make-shift arrangement that came off. Lawes has retired and I think Curry was not at his best.

That leaves all three back-row positions open and I'd guess that Earl considers himself (and should be considered) a genuine contender for all three now.

6. Curry
7. Underhill
8. Willis

20. Earl *a different role

p/d wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 3:47 pm 6. Curry
7. Underhill
8. Willis

20. Earl *a different role

That seems a good prospect - the challenge between T Curry and Ludlam for that 6 Nations blindside flank berth is going to be tantalising ( could we be looking at Worsley V Moody 2.0 ? )

On a different note I’d have liked to have seen more of Ribbans in this tournament - he’s our biggest lock and his carrying and offloading would have a been pretty handy and possibly a step up on Chessum (no slouch in this area himself) ?