6 Nations Squad Announcement - 11:30am

[Scrumhead]

Part of the dilemma with Earl is how he is used in attack. Having him as a ‘third centre’ has been a pretty frequent ploy and if he’s not picked, the other back row players don’t really have pace/explosiveness to perform the same role.

I’m not saying that should cement his place in the side, but it’s not a simple case of switching out a back row player, it also necessitates a tactical rethink.

I really want Willis in the side so I’d probably give it a go with Earl at 7 but it probably means Tom Curry has to play 6 to balance things out from a work rate POV.

[Mikey Brown]

Maybe I haven't been paying enough attention to the point in games when these errors happen, but to me he's always looked a bit inconsistent/erratic with his technique in the contact area. I mentioned his engine because we still seeing him getting on the ball and making breaks late on in the game, but maybe you're right.

I think either way we're describing a player that might struggle to simply shift his focus to playing openside, despite having a fantastic USP as a carrier.

Though he does play openside every week for Sarries to be fair. But agree on breakdown, and also on being error rich.

I know? I'm talking about doing it for England, which we've only seen at the tail end of games.

[TheDasher]

Part of the dilemma with Earl is how he is used in attack. Having him as a ‘third centre’ has been a pretty frequent ploy and if he’s not picked, the other back row players don’t really have pace/explosiveness to perform the same role.

I’m not saying that should cement his place in the side, but it’s not a simple case of switching out a back row player, it also necessitates a tactical rethink.

I really want Willis in the side so I’d probably give it a go with Earl at 7 but it probably means Tom Curry has to play 6 to balance things out from a work rate POV.

But to be honest Earl and Curry on the flanks with the tight five we have just isn't strong enough physically for me, I don't think you beat South Africa and France with that. Again, usual disclaimer that I'm not Beefeater, it's not all about size... but the new reality is we are regularly mullered in the scrum and fairly regularly don't have the dominant pack around the park. Potentially at some point you could end up with Baxter, Dan, Curry, Earl in your forward pack of eight and against France, I think you get torn a new one frankly, especially as our lock pairing isn't exactly big by intl standards either. We need a pack that wins the majority of the collisions but that also in the tight exchanges is the pack that looks like it's playing downhill rather than up over the 80 mins...

[p/d]

I’ve watched quite a bit of Sale recently, both live and on the telly box, and I think he’s in some of the best form of his career. He’s even starting to dominate at scrum time which I thought was always his biggest weakness. Whether that translates to test matches…

Big fan, big fan.

[Banquo]

Maybe I haven't been paying enough attention to the point in games when these errors happen, but to me he's always looked a bit inconsistent/erratic with his technique in the contact area. I mentioned his engine because we still seeing him getting on the ball and making breaks late on in the game, but maybe you're right.

I think either way we're describing a player that might struggle to simply shift his focus to playing openside, despite having a fantastic USP as a carrier.

Though he does play openside every week for Sarries to be fair. But agree on breakdown, and also on being error rich.

I know? I'm talking about doing it for England, which we've only seen at the tail end of games.

Just seems a bit odd to reference a shift of focus being a challenge when its his day job for Sarries; other players do it, eg when switching between lock and back row. Not following your train of thought again I guess.

[Mikey Brown]

I’m saying that although it’s simple in theory (stick him at 7 where he plays alongside club 8 Willis) what we’ve seen of him as a defender and breakdown threat for England so far hasn’t actually been that impressive.

If his time with England is focused on those areas and not just being the primary ball carrier (or kick return) you’d hope to get a bit more out of him, but I guess we’ll see.

[jngf]

I’m saying that although it’s simple in theory (stick him at 7 where he plays alongside club 8 Willis) what we’ve seen of him as a defender and breakdown threat for England so far hasn’t actually been that impressive.

If his time with England is focused on those areas and not just being the primary ball carrier (or kick return) you’d hope to get a bit more out of him, but I guess we’ll see.

Surely you then pick your 6 to cover the breakdown and support with defence when picking a more attack focussed player like Earl at openside? - for me the 7 role can be much more than just defence and fetching (though we’re never going to agree on that I expect )

[Which Tyler]

Stolen from elsewhere, my 6N final table predictions:
1. It's
2. Too
3. Early
4. To
5. Predict
6. Wales

[Scrumhead]

I’m saying that although it’s simple in theory (stick him at 7 where he plays alongside club 8 Willis) what we’ve seen of him as a defender and breakdown threat for England so far hasn’t actually been that impressive.

If his time with England is focused on those areas and not just being the primary ball carrier (or kick return) you’d hope to get a bit more out of him, but I guess we’ll see.

Surely you then pick your 6 to cover the breakdown and support with defence when picking a more attack focussed player like Earl at openside? - for me the 7 role can be much more than just defence and fetching (though we’re never going to agree on that I expect )

No-one is saying it can’t be a balanced role. Simply that there are players who offer a better skill set for the role than Earl and don’t require others to pick up the slack for them.

In time, Pollock might offer some of Earl’s explosiveness and pace whilst also being better at the nuts and bolts.

[jngf]

I’m saying that although it’s simple in theory (stick him at 7 where he plays alongside club 8 Willis) what we’ve seen of him as a defender and breakdown threat for England so far hasn’t actually been that impressive.

If his time with England is focused on those areas and not just being the primary ball carrier (or kick return) you’d hope to get a bit more out of him, but I guess we’ll see.

Surely you then pick your 6 to cover the breakdown and support with defence when picking a more attack focussed player like Earl at openside? - for me the 7 role can be much more than just defence and fetching (though we’re never going to agree on that I expect )

No-one is saying it can’t be a balanced role. Simply that there are players who offer a better skill set for the role than Earl and don’t require others to pick up the slack for them.

In time, Pollock might offer some of Earl’s explosiveness and pace whilst also being better at the nuts and bolts.

I suppose what I am suggesting is that the nuts and bolts may actually be in the process of changing significantly for the openside role with more of those nuts and bolts being covered by the blindside and number 8. The best example I can give is that 6s and 8s seem to more involved in winning turnovers in the last few years rather than it being primarily down to the openside. Or another way of putting it is the openside role may be gradually evolving ( or indeed reverting ) to how it was played by for example Josh Kronfeld with the prominent attacking and linking aspect than when it became much more tighter and about fetching above all else by for example Richie McCaw.

[Mikey Brown]

A backrow who isn’t trusted as a defender or to be moderately effective at the breakdown (not saying emphatically that is Earl, I’m saying that is a concern) is a complete non-starter, whatever their attacking role.

You’re right in that 6 and 8 can do more though, and Willis can hopefully add to that too if he’s at 8.

[Danno]

A backrow who isn’t trusted as a defender or to be moderately effective at the breakdown (not saying emphatically that is Earl, I’m saying that is a concern) is a complete non-starter, whatever their attacking role.

Completely agree and whether it's system or player, Earl needs to be offering more

[Skalyba]

Genge has underwhelmed a little but is generally pretty good. I still think there’s a smarter way of using him that can make more of the carrying we see at club level. Baxter has dropped off a bit but Rodd seems to be playing well.

You can always worry about a coaching picking the complete wrong combinations, but that’s still a pretty handy group of backrows.

It’s not like we were a million miles from the big boys in the Autumn, and somehow it felt like we were functioning at about 60%

The 6 nations always feels like a fresh start so I think this might be interesting.

I like Genge and love the carrying element (although that's arguably not quite what it was) but he's not a top tier international scrummager, which is a concern. I hope Rodd can be that guy and would've loved to have seen a VRR or Obano at some point. For too long we've not had a strong enough scrum.

Great selection of back-rows but he could still fck it up. I don't think Earl has the minerals to play 7 at intl level personally. He misses tackles and isn't a gritty, difficult player in the tight, like Ben Curry is for instance. So I hope he doesn't pick Earl at 7. CCS needs to improve stamina in my view, looks like he's blowing out of his arse after 30 minutes, but great when he's fresh for sure. T Willis at 8, B Curry at 7 and then some combo of CCS, Chessum, Hill playing at 6 and benching... I'd have all three in the 23 in some form.

You're right though, we're not too far away from the odd great result. I also think we're not too far away from being absolutely demolished by someone like France, that's my concern. I can see a side like that putting 50 on us tbh.

Dash, you are dumping Earl from the 23 then? I think quite a few are thinking that way but will SB be one of them? I can still see him picking 6. Chessum, 7. T Curry, 8. Earl. I'd start none of the three but, if SB does, will there be two backrowers on the bench or just one? If the latter, might it be CCS - to Willis's exclusion again? I think things turning ugly, as you fear, could hinge on this, together with SB's credibility.

That'd be very harsh. Against Ireland & France I'd probably Curry (Ben), Willis and Chessum - Chessum was very good at 6 last year and I think thats nice and balanced/hard working. I'd put CCS and Earl on the bench (6/2 split) with the specific remit to up the ante when they come on. After the France game I want to see Hill given time at 6, either starting or off the bench but I think Him, B Curry and Willis is just too inexperienced to throw in v Ireland and France

[Danno]

Less than 10 caps between them, what could go wrong heh

[Captainhaircut]

I think the pack I’d go with would be Genge, LCD, Stuart, Martin, Itoje, Chessum, TCurry, Willis. Bench of Rodd, Dan, AOF, CCS and BCurry, The bench is pretty light in terms of experience which is a worry for seeing games out but that’s the squad we have I guess..

I think that starting pack isn’t a million miles away from what Borthers has generally went with when everyone is fit (not counting George as he’s unavailable)- bar Willis instead Earl at 8. Hopefully he’s seen the light there.

[FKAS]

I think the pack I’d go with would be Genge, LCD, Stuart, Martin, Itoje, Chessum, TCurry, Willis. Bench of Rodd, Dan, AOF, CCS and BCurry, The bench is pretty light in terms of experience which is a worry for seeing games out but that’s the squad we have I guess..

I think that starting pack isn’t a million miles away from what Borthers has generally went with when everyone is fit (not counting George as he’s unavailable)- bar Willis instead Earl at 8. Hopefully he’s seen the light there.

I'd have Earl over BCurry as BCurry has never looked at home at international level and away Vs Ireland isn't the time to see if he break that particular duck. Earl has some issues but we know he can perform at this level and would be a good impact option.

AOF a great impact option but he's a young guy and again, away Vs Ireland the time for him to win his second cap. He's 21 and id Stuart goes down early he's got a long game against high quality opposition. I'd rather not risk breaking him whilst he's still learning. Use Heyes who's in good form, has more experience and is solid in all areas. Bring in AOF towards the tail end of the tournament.

[Captainhaircut]

I think the pack I’d go with would be Genge, LCD, Stuart, Martin, Itoje, Chessum, TCurry, Willis. Bench of Rodd, Dan, AOF, CCS and BCurry, The bench is pretty light in terms of experience which is a worry for seeing games out but that’s the squad we have I guess..

I think that starting pack isn’t a million miles away from what Borthers has generally went with when everyone is fit (not counting George as he’s unavailable)- bar Willis instead Earl at 8. Hopefully he’s seen the light there.

I'd have Earl over BCurry as BCurry has never looked at home at international level and away Vs Ireland isn't the time to see if he break that particular duck. Earl has some issues but we know he can perform at this level and would be a good impact option.

AOF a great impact option but he's a young guy and again, away Vs Ireland the time for him to win his second cap. He's 21 and id Stuart goes down early he's got a long game against high quality opposition. I'd rather not risk breaking him whilst he's still learning. Use Heyes who's in good form, has more experience and is solid in all areas. Bring in AOF towards the tail end of the tournament.

No issue with Heyes. Quick like him.

Regarding Earl on the bench, concern for me is that TCurry goes off injured early and you’re playing Earl at 7 for the entire game. The Australia game showed that this is a serious issue although Chessum and Willis either side of him would be better than CCS and Dombrant.

I genuinely think Earl isn’t really a test back row in the same way Simmonds never was. If you build a side around him then you can make use of a fairly unique skillset but Earl (and Simmonds before that) aren’t really good enough to warrant that.

[Mikey Brown]

How much game time is Chessum likely to have? I can’t remember what kind of injury he actually had or how up to speed he’s likely to be.

[Oakboy]

I have not seen anything recent on T Curry's fitness. The last report I read talked about a chronic hip condition that remained following surgery. Managing it would always be necessary. If that holds good what can reasonably be expected of him at international level?

[FKAS]

How much game time is Chessum likely to have? I can’t remember what kind of injury he actually had or how up to speed he’s likely to be.

He had an hour Vs Toulouse and that'll be it pre Ireland.

[Stom]

I think I'd go for:

Genge
LCD
Stuart
Itoje
Martin
Hill
Curry
Willis
MItchell(if not fit, then Randall)
MSmith
Sleighthome
Dingwall
Beard
Freeman
Steward

Dan, Baxter, Heyes, Chessum, CCS, Randall/Quirke, FSmith, Murley

Obviously, it'll make a big difference if Mitchell is fit, or if we have to go with Randall & hopQuirke (deceased).

[Mr Mwenda]

Chessum's stock has really risen lately!

[Danno]

The privilege of not playing

[Stom]

Chessum's stock has really risen lately!

I don't get all the calls to start, tbh. He is our 3rd best lock, though.

[Mikey Brown]

Chessum's stock has really risen lately!

Hot on Jack Willis’s heels.