RugbyRebels

Banquo wrote:Rory Stewart leaves Tory party and stands down at next election. Don't blame him. Sh*t show to the power of n, Tories and Parliament.

Now that is a real shame. The London Mayoral role is important but Id prefer parliament to have some decent MPs in it.

Sandydragon wrote:

Banquo wrote:Rory Stewart leaves Tory party and stands down at next election. Don't blame him. Sh*t show to the power of n, Tories and Parliament.

Now that is a real shame. The London Mayoral role is important but Id prefer parliament to have some decent MPs in it.

one would be a start

Banquo wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Banquo wrote:Rory Stewart leaves Tory party and stands down at next election. Don't blame him. Sh*t show to the power of n, Tories and Parliament.

Now that is a real shame. The London Mayoral role is important but Id prefer parliament to have some decent MPs in it.

one would be a start

I don't think it's quite that bad.

But the scum has certainly risen to the top.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Sandydragon wrote: Now that is a real shame. The London Mayoral role is important but Id prefer parliament to have some decent MPs in it.

one would be a start

I don't think it's quite that bad.

But the scum has certainly risen to the top.

its a bit of a struggle to name one which is revealing. Mind, I do probably expect a bit much- real world experience, intellect, articulate, passionate, reasonable, compassion, willingness to both compromise and fight for what's right, understanding legislative role and so on.

MPs could amend Queen’s Speech to call for a referendum

https://infacts.org/mps-could-amend-que ... eferendum/

Twas only a matter of time: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-50013578
Sturgeon: Corbyn must back indyref2 for SNP votes

Which Tyler wrote:Twas only a matter of time: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-50013578
Sturgeon: Corbyn must back indyref2 for SNP votes

None of the remain alliance (awful term) are prepared to give a little to mount an effective challenge. Shame none of them can put the national interest first.

Sandydragon wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:Twas only a matter of time: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-50013578
Sturgeon: Corbyn must back indyref2 for SNP votes

None of the remain alliance (awful term) are prepared to give a little to mount an effective challenge. Shame none of them can put the national interest first.

Yup

Well, I hope you enjoyed your party political broadcast on behalf of the Conservative party this morning.
Not that they've any intention or expectation of actually having to honour these pledges (honour? What's that?) They certainly hope they don't have to zcgually find any of this money! But still...
Now we just have to see how many disgruntled labour voters think that the rich kids have the poor kids best interests at heart, how many disgruntled tory voters will remember that being harsh on criminals is all that counts (except the criminals in cabinet, of course), and how long this will distract everyone from Brexit and Climate Catastrophe

Just seen it said that British Politics is the only game you see a queen reduced to a pawn in an attempt to show that you've won despite losing every exchange.

What an utter farce. How can we have a Queen’s speech when Parliament hasn’t been officially prorogued?

Shall we have a quick bet now as to how Boris will comply with the Benn Act?

Full compliance, no further shenanigans?

Technical compliance while making it clear he won't negotiate further during any extension?

Pre-emptive court proceedings by the Govt trying to justify non-compliance?

No compliance, Boris resigns to let someone else do it?

No compliance, no resignation, bare-faced refusal to follow the law - nobile officium court case is revived?

You've left off small technical extension whilst the ERG swallow a deal they declined under May and claim victory

Lizard wrote:Shall we have a quick bet now as to how Boris will comply with the Benn Act?

Full compliance, no further shenanigans?

Technical compliance while making it clear he won't negotiate further during any extension?

Pre-emptive court proceedings by the Govt trying to justify non-compliance?

No compliance, Boris resigns to let someone else do it?

No compliance, no resignation, bare-faced refusal to follow the law - nobile officium court case is revived?

And Option B is the winner, technical compliance by sending an unsigned letter as per the Act, along with a side letter (signed) saying an extension would be a mistake.

Lizard wrote:

Lizard wrote:Shall we have a quick bet now as to how Boris will comply with the Benn Act?

Full compliance, no further shenanigans?

Technical compliance while making it clear he won't negotiate further during any extension?

Pre-emptive court proceedings by the Govt trying to justify non-compliance?

No compliance, Boris resigns to let someone else do it?

No compliance, no resignation, bare-faced refusal to follow the law - nobile officium court case is revived?

And Option B is the winner, technical compliance by sending an unsigned letter as per the Act, along with a side letter (signed) saying an extension would be a mistake.

Thankfully, at least Tusk is taking it as an extension request, regardless of its presentation:

The extension request has just arrived. I will now start consulting EU leaders on how to react.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50174402

Boris Johnson has said he will give MPs more time to debate Brexit deal, but only if they agree to a 12 December general election.
"If they (MPs) genuinely want more time to study this excellent deal, they can have it - but they have to agree to a general election on 12 December,"

So he wants a GE before the students get home to vote, and hopes that it's before the weather is severe enough to reduce the old-folk vote.
Parliament is only allowed to do its job IF they agree to his will.
Even that much is still begrudged, and is obviously with the hope that he can immediately subvert the will of this parliament by having a majority and the ability to undo anything this parliament decides before any new deadline.
It looks like he'll be trying the FTPA again - which would be allowed, as his first attempt was before prorogation - he's obviously still scared that if he tries the "simple bill" method, it gets ammended against his will, and passed against his will.
For someone who campaigned so hard on "parliamentary soveriegnty" he really, REALLY doesn't like it when parliament exerts its sovereignty.

ETA: On which - if we get another day when the backbenches control the order paper, could somone else propose a "simple bill" for a new GE, already ammended as the opposition parties would want?

Which Tyler wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50174402

Boris Johnson has said he will give MPs more time to debate Brexit deal, but only if they agree to a 12 December general election.
"If they (MPs) genuinely want more time to study this excellent deal, they can have it - but they have to agree to a general election on 12 December,"

So he wants a GE before the students get home to vote, and hopes that it's before the weather is severe enough to reduce the old-folk vote.
Parliament is only allowed to do its job IF they agree to his will.
Even that much is still begrudged, and is obviously with the hope that he can immediately subvert the will of this parliament by having a majority and the ability to undo anything this parliament decides before any new deadline.
It looks like he'll be trying the FTPA again - which would be allowed, as his first attempt was before prorogation - he's obviously still scared that if he tries the "simple bill" method, it gets ammended against his will, and passed against his will.
For someone who campaigned so hard on "parliamentary soveriegnty" he really, REALLY doesn't like it when parliament exerts its sovereignty.

ETA: On which - if we get another day when the backbenches control the order paper, could somone else propose a "simple bill" for a new GE, already ammended as the opposition parties would want?

Of course, although he says the 12th December, he may be lying and have another date in mind.

It is quite staggering that he now does not seem to want to get the legislation done for his deal. It's quite a change really, and reveals what he actually thinks of getting a deal done. One wonders, if he found himself with a majority after an election, if he wouldn't just scrap his deal and have a no deal Brexit.

It would get any number of people out of those god awful nativity plays

Son of Mathonwy wrote:Of course, although he says the 12th December, he may be lying and have another date in mind.

Of course - how did I manage to forget that?
If he could get a GE under the FTPA; he can then dissolve parliament whenever he wants, reagardless of the election date - meaning that there's no-one at home to receive or debate any extension offer from the EU - and we crash out without a deal.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:It is quite staggering that he now does not seem to want to get the legislation done for his deal. It's quite a change really, and reveals what he actually thinks of getting a deal done. One wonders, if he found himself with a majority after an election, if he wouldn't just scrap his deal and have a no deal Brexit.

Possibly; he's certainly promised the ERG that his deal is the way to get No Deal - speculation that it's via simply not agreeing to anything by December 2020 and crashing out then; but I guess there's nothing to stop him doing that - apart from honour... not exactly the strongest motivator for any Cockwomble, and not even a consideration for the Cum*****

Which Tyler wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:Of course, although he says the 12th December, he may be lying and have another date in mind.

Of course - how did I manage to forget that?
If he could get a GE under the FTPA; he can then dissolve parliament whenever he wants, reagardless of the election date - meaning that there's no-one at home to receive or debate any extension offer from the EU - and we crash out without a deal.

I don't think it's quite as bad as that (although I am no lawyer), but it's certainly an issue.

The FTPA says that Parliament will dissolve 25 working days prior to the election date, so he can't just shut it down till then.
However, he can choose any date he likes (since "the polling day for the election is to be the day appointed by Her Majesty by proclamation on the recommendation of the Prime Minister"), so the question is, which date is the best for Boris? (a useful consideration whenever predicting his actions.)
How about Feb 1st? This would have the effect of shutting parliament down (I think) on 23rd Dec, which would impede (or possibly wreck?) the ability of the Benn act to bring about an additional extension. I suppose this would force parliament to take matters into its own hands again, before the dissolution date, in order to form a GNU or ask an increasingly irritated EU for yet another extension.
Or who knows - I am no expert on these matters - there may be some other date which would throw a spanner to two into the works.

The only thing we can be sure of is that Boris will pick the 12th December only if it is the best date for him. If another date is better, he will pick that.

Which Tyler wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:It is quite staggering that he now does not seem to want to get the legislation done for his deal. It's quite a change really, and reveals what he actually thinks of getting a deal done. One wonders, if he found himself with a majority after an election, if he wouldn't just scrap his deal and have a no deal Brexit.

Possibly; he's certainly promised the ERG that his deal is the way to get No Deal - speculation that it's via simply not agreeing to anything by December 2020 and crashing out then; but I guess there's nothing to stop him doing that - apart from honour... not exactly the strongest motivator for any Cockwomble, and not even a consideration for the Cum*****

Boris and honour? I think we have a problem here.
What is best for Boris? I imagine he'll just time his No Deal announcement to maximise his backers' profits on their financial bets.

Which Tyler wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:Of course, although he says the 12th December, he may be lying and have another date in mind.

Of course - how did I manage to forget that?
If he could get a GE under the FTPA; he can then dissolve parliament whenever he wants, reagardless of the election date - meaning that there's no-one at home to receive or debate any extension offer from the EU - and we crash out without a deal.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:It is quite staggering that he now does not seem to want to get the legislation done for his deal. It's quite a change really, and reveals what he actually thinks of getting a deal done. One wonders, if he found himself with a majority after an election, if he wouldn't just scrap his deal and have a no deal Brexit.

Possibly; he's certainly promised the ERG that his deal is the way to get No Deal - speculation that it's via simply not agreeing to anything by December 2020 and crashing out then; but I guess there's nothing to stop him doing that - apart from honour... not exactly the strongest motivator for any Cockwomble, and not even a consideration for the Cum*****

Which is why the opposition would be daft to take this at face value.

To be fair Boris could well be bullshitting to the ERG about no deal, given how much he lies and moves with the political winds it seems pointless to assign any motive beyond doing what he thinks best for him on any given day

Digby wrote:To be fair Boris could well be bullshitting to the ERG about no deal, given how much he lies and moves with the political winds it seems pointless to assign any motive beyond doing what he thinks best for him on any given day

This. He is seen as the face of Brexit so the ERG take him seriously but frankly given his variety of views in the past I wouldn't like to discern anything that could be regarded as a political ideology, beyond personal ambition.

Sandydragon wrote:

Digby wrote:To be fair Boris could well be bullshitting to the ERG about no deal, given how much he lies and moves with the political winds it seems pointless to assign any motive beyond doing what he thinks best for him on any given day

This. He is seen as the face of Brexit so the ERG take him seriously but frankly given his variety of views in the past I wouldn't like to discern anything that could be regarded as a political ideology, beyond personal ambition.

True - he cannot be trusted, but having burned a lot of bridges I don't think he's going to let the ERG down anytime soon.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Digby wrote:To be fair Boris could well be bullshitting to the ERG about no deal, given how much he lies and moves with the political winds it seems pointless to assign any motive beyond doing what he thinks best for him on any given day

This. He is seen as the face of Brexit so the ERG take him seriously but frankly given his variety of views in the past I wouldn't like to discern anything that could be regarded as a political ideology, beyond personal ambition.

True - he cannot be trusted, but having burned a lot of bridges I don't think he's going to let the ERG down anytime soon.

If there are two groups in this I'd be happy to see let down it'd perhaps be the DUP and the ERG, he's already thrown one of them under the bus, and other will go the same way if it's deemed in the interests of BJ. I wouldn't put it past BJ to take us through a hard Brexit and then sign an FTA with the EU the ERG detest