RugbyRebels

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:
If this was something in isolation, then fair enough, but Buttler's been in terrible nick for the Test side for a while and his keeping is not good enough to justify his place if he's not offering good returns with the bat. This was an opportunity to show value to the team - he didn't take it.

Puja

Got a 40 in the first dig, and you are having a go as he's just sacrificed himself for quick runs. Harsh, as I said- sending him into open against a red ball was an odd ask.

I don't know where my brain is - I was certain he'd fallen for 17-odd in the first innings, even to the extent of going to look at the scorecard because I *knew* you were wrong. Complete brainfart - you are absolutely correct that he did deliver in the first innings and I withdraw my complaint.

Puja

I do agree that generally he needs to score more though. He has an undeserved rep as not being a very good keeper imo.

On the YJB front, think he was a bit daft to 'insist' on keeping- bet his stats are better when not doing so? For a year or so, he was an excellent test batsman.

I like Butler but the stats dont lie.
He has scored one 50 in his last 21 innings. Has only one test hundred and his average has been falling since late 2018.
I dont blame him for getting out yesterday in a dash for quick runs, but all too often he gets out in very soft ways when looking reasonably set.
His keeping is generally very reliable.
The batting must be an issue with Foakes in the wings.

fivepointer wrote:I like Butler but the stats dont lie.
He has scored one 50 in his last 21 innings. Has only one test hundred and his average has been falling since late 2018.
I dont blame him for getting out yesterday in a dash for quick runs, but all too often he gets out in very soft ways when looking reasonably set.
His keeping is generally very reliable.
The batting must be an issue with Foakes in the wings.

I feel like he forces things and is being asked to play a role that he rarely gets to play because of our collapses. So when an opportunity does come and he doesn’t take it, it’s not a good look.

I don’t feel he’s particularly suited to this team, yet... but feel he might be soon if we can add a bit of steel higher up. Stokes recent form is a good sign, while Crawley and Pope both have potential to play the innings we need. Both openers can stick around.

So he might get more chances over the next few tests to show his worth with the bat.

Good start

Ben Stokes is utterly ridiculous.

Puja

Bit conservative, but lets see.

Broad in one of those moods, good stuff.

Banquo wrote:Broad in one of those moods, good stuff.

Interesting to see Michael Holding saying he'd pick Broad every time, including over Anderson.

Broad also made a fair point last night. He is 4 years younger than Jimmy, Jimmy has 130+ wickets since he was Broads age. It would be a mistake to write him off prematurely.

Something fired him oop....
The Chase is on (different this time). Looks good for JR at this juncture.

Galfon wrote:Something fired him oop....
The Chase is on (different this time). Looks good for JR at this juncture.

The thing is Broad is kind of right in what he is saying, he had a pretty poor 2017, but since then averaging 25.27 across his last 26 tests including 1/171 in 2 tests in Sri Lanka and Oz.

England have a lot of variety in their options. Like discussed earlier, finding the right combination isn't going to be easy.

I think Ollie Pope can keep and get an extra bowler in

Big D wrote:

Banquo wrote:Broad in one of those moods, good stuff.

Interesting to see Michael Holding saying he'd pick Broad every time, including over Anderson.

Broad also made a fair point last night. He is 4 years younger than Jimmy, Jimmy has 130+ wickets since he was Broads age. It would be a mistake to write him off prematurely.

Holding was always staggered we didn't pick Finn whenever we could.

Big D wrote:

Galfon wrote:Something fired him oop....
The Chase is on (different this time). Looks good for JR at this juncture.

The thing is Broad is kind of right in what he is saying, he had a pretty poor 2017, but since then averaging 25.27 across his last 26 tests including 0/171 in 2 tests in Sri Lanka and Oz.

England have a lot of variety in their options. Like discussed earlier, finding the right combination isn't going to be easy.

I think Ollie Pope can keep and get an extra bowler in

Think Broad has the best stats of any England bowler in the last 12 months.

I know you are joking on Pope, but keeping pretty much automatically diminishes batting averages for batsman- keepers (rather than keeper-batsmen, if that makes sense). Gilchrist and possibly Flower are exceptions.

Banquo wrote: I know you are joking on Pope, but keeping pretty much automatically diminishes batting averages for batsman- keepers (rather than keeper-batsmen, if that makes sense). Gilchrist and possibly Flower are exceptions.

Yeah that is partly why I am a Foakes guy (of the current options) to be honest. His batting isn't incredible but I think he'd be more consistent in the long run.

Banquo wrote:Broad in one of those moods, good stuff.

You get the feeling it'd be a good tactic to drop and rubbish Broad for the first test of an Ashes series and then recall him for the second Test.

Puja

Big D wrote:

Banquo wrote: I know you are joking on Pope, but keeping pretty much automatically diminishes batting averages for batsman- keepers (rather than keeper-batsmen, if that makes sense). Gilchrist and possibly Flower are exceptions.

Yeah that is partly why I am a Foakes guy (of the current options) to be honest. His batting isn't incredible but I think he'd be more consistent in the long run.

Butler does look stilted behind the stumps, not much anticipation and not great footwork, but Prior had some of those issues and he improved hugely

No support for Broad and Woakes so far

Digby wrote:No support for Broad and Woakes so far

Indeed. May well fall short. Windies may even have a pop.

Curran deciding this moment is best to have a quiet day, after I promoted his cause so heavily. Sorry guys, this appears to be my fault!

Puja

Puja wrote:Curran deciding this moment is best to have a quiet day, after I promoted his cause so heavily. Sorry guys, this appears to be my fault!

Puja

Fortunately Stokes is still with us.....

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:No support for Broad and Woakes so far

Indeed. May well fall short. Windies may even have a pop.

Bess will be dropped, 1-100+ on a wicket that's turning isn't going to convince anyone, okay it's slow turn but the length just isn't controlled enough. In other circumstances we might have picked 2 spinners for the last game but with Archer, Anderson and Wood to come back I doubt they'll worry about the seamers needing protection. The bigger concern for me might be do we try to leave a spinner out altogether, even at OT, and even with the next pitch looking a tad yellow. Leach will be back in is my assumption for now

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:No support for Broad and Woakes so far

Indeed. May well fall short. Windies may even have a pop.

Bess will be dropped, 1-100+ on a wicket that's turning isn't going to convince anyone, okay it's slow turn but the length just isn't controlled enough. In other circumstances we might have picked 2 spinners for the last game but with Archer, Anderson and Wood to come back I doubt they'll worry about the seamers needing protection. The bigger concern for me might be do we try to leave a spinner out altogether, even at OT, and even with the next pitch looking a tad yellow. Leach will be back in is my assumption for now

Perhaps, I’d keep broad and bring back Anderson and Wood. Or maybe Archer

Stom wrote:

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote: Indeed. May well fall short. Windies may even have a pop.

Bess will be dropped, 1-100+ on a wicket that's turning isn't going to convince anyone, okay it's slow turn but the length just isn't controlled enough. In other circumstances we might have picked 2 spinners for the last game but with Archer, Anderson and Wood to come back I doubt they'll worry about the seamers needing protection. The bigger concern for me might be do we try to leave a spinner out altogether, even at OT, and even with the next pitch looking a tad yellow. Leach will be back in is my assumption for now

Perhaps, I’d keep broad and bring back Anderson and Wood. Or maybe Archer

If you want all 4 you're probably not picking a spinner, which isn't what I'd do at OT. Actually I'd always try and have a serious spin option whatever the ground, but still more so at OT. If not you're probably picking between Archer and Wood. Stokes being able to bowl will also be looked at one assumes

9/11 ..last man standing.

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:No support for Broad and Woakes so far

Indeed. May well fall short. Windies may even have a pop.

Bess will be dropped, 1-100+ on a wicket that's turning isn't going to convince anyone, okay it's slow turn but the length just isn't controlled enough. In other circumstances we might have picked 2 spinners for the last game but with Archer, Anderson and Wood to come back I doubt they'll worry about the seamers needing protection. The bigger concern for me might be do we try to leave a spinner out altogether, even at OT, and even with the next pitch looking a tad yellow. Leach will be back in is my assumption for now

Bowled a great little spell at the end- dip, turn and drift. The point was well made that he'd been bowling the wrong end all this match. Good fieldsman and bat- I wouldn't be so impatient, given the rotating spinners door....its his 6th test, which is nothing given the leeway batsmen get; he's only played 42 f/c games full stop, so steep learning curve.

Stom wrote:

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote: Indeed. May well fall short. Windies may even have a pop.

Bess will be dropped, 1-100+ on a wicket that's turning isn't going to convince anyone, okay it's slow turn but the length just isn't controlled enough. In other circumstances we might have picked 2 spinners for the last game but with Archer, Anderson and Wood to come back I doubt they'll worry about the seamers needing protection. The bigger concern for me might be do we try to leave a spinner out altogether, even at OT, and even with the next pitch looking a tad yellow. Leach will be back in is my assumption for now

Perhaps, I’d keep broad and bring back Anderson and Wood. Or maybe Archer

Archer has to be back- well in front of Wood, much as I like Wood.