RugbyRebels

Puja wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 9:20 am Yup, we're all fucked. Shame on Biden for his ego and shame on the Democratic party for none of them having the minerals to stand up to him. Pick any white, middle-aged, straight, cis, Christian male, stick a blue ribbon on them, and they would be annihilating Trump at this juncture, but they're insisting on trying to push an 81 year old man, who is clearly in decline, on the most virility-obsessed electorate in the world.

Puja

After winning in 2020 there wasn't really any other option was there? Has anyone ever had their sitting president stand down for another candidate? I don't know about Biden's ego. Does he even get a say in any of this?

The DNC get what they deserve (well some of it, assuming they even care about losing - 'fund-raising' under a Trump government is a gold mine) and Harris never seemed to be considered a serious candidate to step up from VP, but it's terrifying how many people will suffer for these decisions. I can only imagine what Trump (and his base) 'out for revenge' is going to look like. He's got nothing to lose this time.

Puja wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 9:20 am Yup, we're all fucked. Shame on Biden for his ego and shame on the Democratic party for none of them having the minerals to stand up to him. Pick any white, middle-aged, straight, cis, Christian male, stick a blue ribbon on them, and they would be annihilating Trump at this juncture, but they're insisting on trying to push an 81 year old man, who is clearly in decline, on the most virility-obsessed electorate in the world.

Puja

Yup. My thoughts exactly.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 9:36 am

Puja wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 9:20 am Yup, we're all fucked. Shame on Biden for his ego and shame on the Democratic party for none of them having the minerals to stand up to him. Pick any white, middle-aged, straight, cis, Christian male, stick a blue ribbon on them, and they would be annihilating Trump at this juncture, but they're insisting on trying to push an 81 year old man, who is clearly in decline, on the most virility-obsessed electorate in the world.

Puja

After winning in 2020 there wasn't really any other option was there? Has anyone ever had their sitting president stand down for another candidate? I don't know about Biden's ego. Does he even get a say in any of this?

The DNC get what they deserve (well some of it, assuming they even care about losing - 'fund-raising' under a Trump government is a gold mine) and Harris never seemed to be considered a serious candidate to step up from VP, but it's terrifying how many people will suffer for these decisions. I can only imagine what Trump (and his base) 'out for revenge' is going to look like. He's got nothing to lose this time.

Biden could absolutely say he's not running again. You can't force someone to stand for President! It would've been a first for a President to choose not to compete for a second term, but it's also a first to have an octogenarian President, so "Joe's going to retire and spend time with his family, because running the country is a younger man's game," is hardly something that can't be sold to the voting public.

Have you come across "Project 2025" before? It's a dedicated plan of action for the first year of a Trump administration, written up by a bunch of libertarian/theocratic/fascist government nerds, about how various loopholes, obscure presidential powers, and bureaucratic rules can be leveraged to completely and irrevocably change how America works. Highlights include placing the Department of Justice under the direct control of the President, allowing the deployment of the American military on American soil to round up and deport immigrants, removing all legal protections against discrimination for protected characteristics, and reclassifying thousands of people in skills-based roles in government departments as "Political Appointments", then firing them all because of a change of administration, and replacing them with true believers, who have already been picked out, vetted, and pre-approved. So, the EPA will no longer talk about climate change, because it'll be run and staffed by climate deniers at the highest level, the Department of Education will no longer talk about evolution because it'll be run and staffed by Christian fundamentalists, and the FTC won't worry about antitrust and mergers because it'll be run and staffed by people who are doing very well out of oligarchy.

The worst part is that it's using every back alley in the levers of government, so none of it will require getting through Congress or winning votes or requiring funding - it can just be done by fiat, without anything other than the Presidency. It is insanely well prepared and thought out and planned and it's absolutely terrifying.

Puja

I haven’t heard of that, but I’m not struggling to believe that’s the plan.

Biden standing down, with a similar message to what you’ve said, would obviously have been a sensible move in a rational world. I guess I was questioning it being about ego or a sense of duty or just not having a fucking clue what is going on.

I am very curious though who actually makes these key decisions like rail-roading Bernie and bringing Biden back from the dead. I might become a full-on Hillary Clinton illuminati guy, that seems like a fun interest to have.

Jesus Titty Fucking Christ.

morepork wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 11:10 am Jesus Titty Fucking Christ.

I know the situation is very serious but this made me lol.

morepork wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 11:10 am Jesus Titty Fucking Christ.

Collectively nuking ourselves not sounding so bad now, is it?

Watched some clips, absolute train wreck

That's terrifying stuff puja, really hope we don't see it

The cancer in the Executive branch of government is now terminal and poised to render the legislative and judiciary branches moribund.

That was unwatchable, very very sad. Is there still a path for the Dems to switch candidate?

J Dory wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 1:11 pm That was unwatchable, very very sad. Is there still a path for the Dems to switch candidate?

Realistically, only by Biden recognising, or being convinced to recognise, the inevitable and announcing that he won't be continuing with his campaign.

So, no, in other words, barring him having a stroke or something.

Puja

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 10:33 am I haven’t heard of that, but I’m not struggling to believe that’s the plan.

Biden standing down, with a similar message to what you’ve said, would obviously have been a sensible move in a rational world. I guess I was questioning it being about ego or a sense of duty or just not having a fucking clue what is going on.

I am very curious though who actually makes these key decisions like rail-roading Bernie and bringing Biden back from the dead. I might become a full-on Hillary Clinton illuminati guy, that seems like a fun interest to have.

I think the issue is that Biden believed he would beat Trump and he didn't want to be a one-term President (having waited "his turn" for the nomination for so long). Presumably he still does believe he'll beat Trump.

Puja

J Dory wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 1:11 pm That was unwatchable, very very sad. Is there still a path for the Dems to switch candidate?

Andrew Little did it for Ardern…

Biden needs to eat a massive slice of humble pie and the idiots that put him on the biggest of stages need to STFU. There is still appetite for progression here. If the democrats have any semblance of balls left after that emasculation they will damn the torpedoes and opt for a sea change. I’m thinking some leveling estrogen would be an appropriate response to this toxic masculinity. Go hard or go home.

Take the fight to them, get off the ropes, and if they are to go down, go down swinging. It will mobilize community level advocacy.

Surely some names get shortlisted between here and the next debate

morepork wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 2:12 pm

J Dory wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 1:11 pm That was unwatchable, very very sad. Is there still a path for the Dems to switch candidate?

I’m thinking some leveling estrogen would be an appropriate response to this toxic masculinity. Go hard or go home.

Are you saying what I think you're saying?

Pokemon go hard or Pokemon go home?

Puja wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 10:12 am Have you come across "Project 2025" before? It's a dedicated plan of action for the first year of a Trump administration, written up by a bunch of libertarian/theocratic/fascist government nerds, about how various loopholes, obscure presidential powers, and bureaucratic rules can be leveraged to completely and irrevocably change how America works.

It's terrifying.
Anyone who hasn't already, I highly recommend the John Oliver bit on it (Last week tonight, June 16th)

SkyGo

Via a VPN

morepork wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 2:15 pm Take the fight to them, get off the ropes, and if they are to go down, go down swinging. It will mobilize community level advocacy.

This. Leave Biden at the top of the ticket and he'll likely take the House and Senate and State legislatures and a load of governors down with him. And I say that as someone who thinks he's still perfectly able to govern and has been an incredible president, but there isn't a cat's chance in hell that he's going to get enough americans to vote for him.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 11:25 pm

morepork wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 2:15 pm Take the fight to them, get off the ropes, and if they are to go down, go down swinging. It will mobilize community level advocacy.

This. Leave Biden at the top of the ticket and he'll likely take the House and Senate and State legislatures and a load of governors down with him. And I say that as someone who thinks he's still perfectly able to govern and has been an incredible president, but there isn't a cat's chance in hell that he's going to get enough americans to vote for him.

This surely has to motivate the dems. Losing the presidency and allowing the republicans a
Majority in both houses would be a nightmare.

It’s time for some brutal honesty.

The supreme court has basically totally emasculated the SCC and EPA and federal regulatory bodies. Anyone prosecutions now have to go to a jury as I understand it

Crazy stuff

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2024 9:36 am The supreme court has basically totally emasculated the SCC and EPA and federal regulatory bodies. Anyone prosecutions now have to go to a jury as I understand it

Crazy stuff

Crazy business (if I understand it correctly). An unbalanced, politicised (and by its nature, undemocratic) supreme court is terrifying, and this is one of the consequences. The Republicans seek to control the country even when they don't have control of the elected branches of government. And it's probably not the end of that process.

https://www.vox.com/scotus/357900/supre ... power-grab

A shame that Biden didn't (or couldn't) find a way to increase the size of the SC and rebalance it (I know this would lead to the SC swelling in size every time the White House changed hands but it would be better than this right-wing domination).

NB even before this power grab the SC had granted itself significant powers (which it only used to stop Democrat policies, funnily enough):

https://www.vox.com/scotus/23791610/sup ... ch-barrett

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 9:40 am

Eugene Wrayburn wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 11:25 pm

morepork wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 2:15 pm Take the fight to them, get off the ropes, and if they are to go down, go down swinging. It will mobilize community level advocacy.

This. Leave Biden at the top of the ticket and he'll likely take the House and Senate and State legislatures and a load of governors down with him. And I say that as someone who thinks he's still perfectly able to govern and has been an incredible president, but there isn't a cat's chance in hell that he's going to get enough americans to vote for him.

This surely has to motivate the dems. Losing the presidency and allowing the republicans a
Majority in both houses would be a nightmare.

It’s time for some brutal honesty.

This is depressing. So he was over-prepared? It didn't look like that. Yet Obama and Bill Clinton back him.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/art ... g-advisers

A big problem is that there's no heir apparent. The VP should be the obvious backup but she's not popular enough.

This is fixed now, everyone has seen it. Biden looks senile. Even if all his performances are a lot better from now on, people will wince whenever he slurs his words, pauses for thought, goes off on a tangent (even on a good day these things still seem to happen).

So immune when operating officially so get everything defined as official and hey presto totally immunity

Does ordering something whilst holding the office of President make it official? Or is it confined to the expected duties of a president, i.e. not organising an insurgency against his own country? Presumably, the lower courts will define that and then it too will be appealed. Except the election will probably stop proceedings forevermore. Until the next time, someone suggests Trump has abused his power.

The ideological split in SCOTUS is obvious 6-3, and the minority view is making it very clear that they aren't happy. I think it's clear that SCOTUS is giving Trump cover and aren't just interpreting the law in an unbiased manner.

Maybe Biden should exercise some official power and eject Trump from the ballot. After all, SCOTUS seems to think that's fine.

This ruling makes it even more clear, or should do, that the Democrats must remove Biden for someone who might actually beat Trump.