RugbyRebels

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:No support for Broad and Woakes so far

Indeed. May well fall short. Windies may even have a pop.

Bess will be dropped, 1-100+ on a wicket that's turning isn't going to convince anyone, okay it's slow turn but the length just isn't controlled enough. In other circumstances we might have picked 2 spinners for the last game but with Archer, Anderson and Wood to come back I doubt they'll worry about the seamers needing protection. The bigger concern for me might be do we try to leave a spinner out altogether, even at OT, and even with the next pitch looking a tad yellow. Leach will be back in is my assumption for now

Bess will be kept in. He is a young spinner learning as he goes averaging just over 31/32. Getting him continued gametime when he almost certainly will be needed in UAE/India is important IMO.

I am not sure England should change that bowling line up at all. Good all round bowling performance. Opening pair taking wickets, 1st and 2nd change bowlers taking wickets and spinner nipping out tail enders.

Maybe one of Jimmy or Archer for Curran but the left hander is a nice difference.

If Stokes is struggling to bowl then Wood can't play. He is a walking injury risk.

Fast turn-round for the decider - this Fri in the bio-secure Old Traff. bubble.Archer is available, which gives an option.Anderson and Wood seem permanently brittle these days and can't see the pitch changing too much.
Curran may lose out but agreed, he's good to have in the toolbox.

There is a case for leaving the team alone but i'm sure Anderson will be back, probably for Woakes. Difficult to see Broad dropped and Curran does give you some variation. There is a case for the left arm spinner given the Windies have only one left hander, but i'd stick with Bess.
All in all that was a very good win. Stokes is on another level.

Big D wrote:

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote: Indeed. May well fall short. Windies may even have a pop.

Bess will be dropped, 1-100+ on a wicket that's turning isn't going to convince anyone, okay it's slow turn but the length just isn't controlled enough. In other circumstances we might have picked 2 spinners for the last game but with Archer, Anderson and Wood to come back I doubt they'll worry about the seamers needing protection. The bigger concern for me might be do we try to leave a spinner out altogether, even at OT, and even with the next pitch looking a tad yellow. Leach will be back in is my assumption for now

Bess will be kept in. He is a young spinner learning as he goes averaging just over 31/32. Getting him continued gametime when he almost certainly will be needed in UAE/India is important IMO.

I am not sure England should change that bowling line up at all. Good all round bowling performance. Opening pair taking wickets, 1st and 2nd change bowlers taking wickets and spinner nipping out tail enders.

Maybe one of Jimmy or Archer for Curran but the left hander is a nice difference.

If Stokes is struggling to bowl then Wood can't play. He is a walking injury risk.

I think you have to bring back Anderson for Woakes (unless there are any doubts about his fitness). Woakes got a few good wickets this game, but he's not in the same class as Jimmy as a regular wicket taking threat. I'd probably have Archer ahead of Woakes as well, as the project with the greater long-term ceiling.

Puja

Big D wrote:

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote: Indeed. May well fall short. Windies may even have a pop.

Bess will be dropped, 1-100+ on a wicket that's turning isn't going to convince anyone, okay it's slow turn but the length just isn't controlled enough. In other circumstances we might have picked 2 spinners for the last game but with Archer, Anderson and Wood to come back I doubt they'll worry about the seamers needing protection. The bigger concern for me might be do we try to leave a spinner out altogether, even at OT, and even with the next pitch looking a tad yellow. Leach will be back in is my assumption for now

Bess will be kept in. He is a young spinner learning as he goes averaging just over 31/32. Getting him continued gametime when he almost certainly will be needed in UAE/India is important IMO.

I am not sure England should change that bowling line up at all. Good all round bowling performance. Opening pair taking wickets, 1st and 2nd change bowlers taking wickets and spinner nipping out tail enders.

Maybe one of Jimmy or Archer for Curran but the left hander is a nice difference.

If Stokes is struggling to bowl then Wood can't play. He is a walking injury risk.

Anderson remains the best of the bunch imo, certainly 1st innings.

Puja wrote:

Big D wrote:

Digby wrote:
Bess will be dropped, 1-100+ on a wicket that's turning isn't going to convince anyone, okay it's slow turn but the length just isn't controlled enough. In other circumstances we might have picked 2 spinners for the last game but with Archer, Anderson and Wood to come back I doubt they'll worry about the seamers needing protection. The bigger concern for me might be do we try to leave a spinner out altogether, even at OT, and even with the next pitch looking a tad yellow. Leach will be back in is my assumption for now

Bess will be kept in. He is a young spinner learning as he goes averaging just over 31/32. Getting him continued gametime when he almost certainly will be needed in UAE/India is important IMO.

I am not sure England should change that bowling line up at all. Good all round bowling performance. Opening pair taking wickets, 1st and 2nd change bowlers taking wickets and spinner nipping out tail enders.

Maybe one of Jimmy or Archer for Curran but the left hander is a nice difference.

If Stokes is struggling to bowl then Wood can't play. He is a walking injury risk.

I think you have to bring back Anderson for Woakes (unless there are any doubts about his fitness). Woakes got a few good wickets this game, but he's not in the same class as Jimmy as a regular wicket taking threat. I'd probably have Archer ahead of Woakes as well, as the project with the greater long-term ceiling.

Puja

Over their career he isn't in Andersons class. There is definitely a case to be made for keeping the same bowling line up. It is yet to be seen whether Anderson at 38 is the same as he was two summers ago. Woakes in English conditions contributes fairly regularly and averages 23 with the ball over a decent sample size.

No question Jofra is the long term star. Doesn't mean he must play every game.

I'm not saying they aren't good enough or that they won't come back in I'm just not sure they should be automatic picks when the bowling unit just rolled over the Windies twice fairly quickly when the series was on the line.

I do like Bess kept coming back for more, and kept trying to get the ball up to challenge the batsmen. With something on the line in just a few days, with Leach not having played yet and Bess not able to control length so far, and with a number of RHB in the Windies side I think they will make a change, and I probably just about think that's the right call, but it wouldn't upset me is Bess stays in, only no spinner (bar Root) would annoy me

Digby wrote:I do like Bess kept coming back for more, and kept trying to get the ball up to challenge the batsmen. With something on the line in just a few days, with Leach not having played yet and Bess not able to control length so far, and with a number of RHB in the Windies side I think they will make a change, and I probably just about think that's the right call, but it wouldn't upset me is Bess stays in, only no spinner (bar Root) would annoy me

you went a bit early with asserting he'd be dropped perchance?

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:I do like Bess kept coming back for more, and kept trying to get the ball up to challenge the batsmen. With something on the line in just a few days, with Leach not having played yet and Bess not able to control length so far, and with a number of RHB in the Windies side I think they will make a change, and I probably just about think that's the right call, but it wouldn't upset me is Bess stays in, only no spinner (bar Root) would annoy me

you went a bit early with asserting he'd be dropped perchance?

I still think he will be dropped, and should be. But I did like watching a young player get stuck in even if his technical skills weren't quite there, reminiscent of a young Owen Farrell perhaps

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:I do like Bess kept coming back for more, and kept trying to get the ball up to challenge the batsmen. With something on the line in just a few days, with Leach not having played yet and Bess not able to control length so far, and with a number of RHB in the Windies side I think they will make a change, and I probably just about think that's the right call, but it wouldn't upset me is Bess stays in, only no spinner (bar Root) would annoy me

you went a bit early with asserting he'd be dropped perchance?

I still think he will be dropped, and should be. But I did like watching a young player get stuck in even if his technical skills weren't quite there, reminiscent of a young Owen Farrell perhaps

apols, I did misread wot you had wrote.

My theory on the spinner selection is dissolving quickly

Digby wrote:My theory on the spinner selection is dissolving quickly

...they are talking about dropping Bess anyway, because its been raining....and Stokes may play only as a batsman.

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:My theory on the spinner selection is dissolving quickly

...they are talking about dropping Bess anyway, because its been raining....and Stokes may play only as a batsman.

Ah, my worst case scenario, marvellous

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:My theory on the spinner selection is dissolving quickly

...they are talking about dropping Bess anyway, because its been raining....and Stokes may play only as a batsman.

Ah, my worst case scenario, marvellous

yep, not great.

Thats a fudge and dropping Crawley is poor form! Shows what happens when you don't have an all rounder in the side (ie stokes can't bowl). It would have been fairer, although harsh, to drop Pope. Now Root has to bat 3, which he doesn't like. Windies sniff a bit of blood and put us in.

Banquo wrote:Thats a fudge and dropping Crawley is poor form! Shows what happens when you don't have an all rounder in the side (ie stokes can't bowl). It would have been fairer, although harsh, to drop Pope. Now Root has to bat 3, which he doesn't like. Windies sniff a bit of blood and put us in.

I am not sure what they should to do when Stokes can't bowl. Crawley has one decent score but Pope has had a better start to his career and is a tremendous fielder in the silly positions.

They could have been really bold and dropped Buttler and given Pope the gloves.

Sibley misses a straight one. Good start that. Although given the expected weather Sibley going early may not be a bad thing and England need to take 20 wickets.

I also think England should have having a serious discussion about Root to 3 and Stokes to 4. The better Stokes is getting with the bat the more he will feel wasted further down the order.

Big D wrote:

Banquo wrote:Thats a fudge and dropping Crawley is poor form! Shows what happens when you don't have an all rounder in the side (ie stokes can't bowl). It would have been fairer, although harsh, to drop Pope. Now Root has to bat 3, which he doesn't like. Windies sniff a bit of blood and put us in.

I am not sure what they should to do when Stokes can't bowl. Crawley has one decent score but Pope has had a better start to his career and is a tremendous fielder in the silly positions.

They could have been really bold and dropped Buttler and given Pope the gloves.

Sibley misses a straight one. Good start that. Although given the expected weather Sibley going early may not be a bad thing and England need to take 20 wickets.

I also think England should have having a serious discussion about Root to 3 and Stokes to 4. The better Stokes is getting with the bat the more he will feel wasted further down the order.

Root is a much poorer three than 4/5 , and 5 (or 6) is perfect for Stokes. Hope he can make a go at 4 in this match- be easier as not bowling.

Personally, in the scenario they had, it might have been better to bin Bess and use Roots spin. The batting is way weaker with Root at 3 and Buttler at 6.

If Gabriel is really crocked, then if we get through this session relatively unscathed, that'd be a great result.

It's been nice to see Gabriel back, but he looked knackered in the 2nd test and turning around this soon I was fairly sure they'd have to be responsible to him and the side by not selecting him.

FFS

Sibley has clearly been watching videos by Shane Watson on how to open an innings, he played beautifully around a straight ball. And whilst I might think Holder could be a tad more aggressive as a captain it clearly worked on Root who wasn't happy to bat with the run rate being constrained.

Good, I think, Gabriel is back out there. Hope that's not taking a pain killing injection to get him back on the pitch. And it's great fun watching Cornwall bowl, but I would also like to see him chasing a few out to cow corner, or maybe hairing back to long on as Stokes did off his own bowling.

Stokes gone, trouble now. Wobbling about, and we are wobbling.

Hate seeing a wicket fall to a run out in a test match when there is no requirement to chase runs. You are giving a wicket away.
Sibley made a real hash of a straightforward defensive shot and Stokes got beat by a good ball.
Cornwall is in no kind of condition to be playing at this level.

Cornwall looks to be firing the ball down so to get the turn is impressive, but yes for all it amuses he does look too large to be a pro

Aussies will be noting the use of the short ball to halt Stokes' footwork with interest