RugbyRebels

I’m going to stop reading this thread as I find myself actually starting to believe Jones is going. It’s the hope that kills ya.

Beasties wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:09 am I’m going to stop reading this thread as I find myself actually starting to believe Jones is going. It’s the hope that kills ya.

So- any guesses for Borthwick's first squad?

Beasties wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:09 am I’m going to stop reading this thread as I find myself actually starting to believe Jones is going. It’s the hope that kills ya.

I was just about to say that we've only got one more day of fruitlessly spinning our wheels and repeating endless reptitions of, "I don't think Borthwick's ready", before it all gets confirmed that Eddie's being given a second chance.

Puja

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:27 am

Beasties wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:09 am I’m going to stop reading this thread as I find myself actually starting to believe Jones is going. It’s the hope that kills ya.

So- any guesses for Borthwick's first squad?

The triumphant elevation of Richard Wigglesworth to the England team!

No, not as a coach.

Puja

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:35 am Is appointing Borthwick on a permanent contract the right decision? There are pros and cons with the biggest 'pro' the departure of Jones obviously. However, taking the decision to ditch Jones three years too late and in something of a muddled hurry makes me wonder if it is a mistake not to appoint a caretaker set-up. Is it a fully reasoned decision or panic to go straight for Borthwick?

I wish Borthwick well despite misgivings.

This was the issue a lot of us mentioned when you repeatedly stated we should get rid. It’s all very well thinking a coach is done but you do need to replace them with someone better... and that is a small pool of people in tier 1 test rugby.
I think Borthwick will be an upgrade purely because he’s a fresh face but I’d like him to have another World Cup cycle at club level before he got the top job.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:49 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:35 am Is appointing Borthwick on a permanent contract the right decision? There are pros and cons with the biggest 'pro' the departure of Jones obviously. However, taking the decision to ditch Jones three years too late and in something of a muddled hurry makes me wonder if it is a mistake not to appoint a caretaker set-up. Is it a fully reasoned decision or panic to go straight for Borthwick?

I wish Borthwick well despite misgivings.

This was the issue a lot of us mentioned when you repeatedly stated we should get rid. It’s all very well thinking a coach is done but you do need to replace them with someone better... and that is a small pool of people in tier 1 test rugby.
I think Borthwick will be an upgrade purely because he’s a fresh face but I’d like him to have another World Cup cycle at club level before he got the top job.

I think the RFU will make some sort of cock of it whenever it happens. I'm certain Borthwick will do better than Jones initially but I'd prefer him to have longer to appoint a permanent coaching crew. Being lumbered with people he may not really want and on long-term contacts is the fear now. I hope he's appointed with a short-term contract initially (together with assistants). International expertise can come from the right assistant appointments.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:35 am Is appointing Borthwick on a permanent contract the right decision? There are pros and cons with the biggest 'pro' the departure of Jones obviously. However, taking the decision to ditch Jones three years too late and in something of a muddled hurry makes me wonder if it is a mistake not to appoint a caretaker set-up. Is it a fully reasoned decision or panic to go straight for Borthwick?

I wish Borthwick well despite misgivings.

Dors, let's not panic. Just keep fingers crossed that Jones is a gonna and we can then worry/question any future appointment. I'm sure many views will be cast (whoever it is and under what terms) but move forward we must.

I wonder if Jones foresaw his departure as part of his wider project for the WC

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:35 am Is appointing Borthwick on a permanent contract the right decision? There are pros and cons with the biggest 'pro' the departure of Jones obviously. However, taking the decision to ditch Jones three years too late and in something of a muddled hurry makes me wonder if it is a mistake not to appoint a caretaker set-up. Is it a fully reasoned decision or panic to go straight for Borthwick?

I wish Borthwick well despite misgivings.

I still don’t get your ‘3 years too late’ thing, but I liked the original idea of Jones having a 2 year handover period after the World Cup. I think they were hoping Baxter would be ready to take over in 2021 but there were dozens of reasons nobody else was really in a position to take charge.

I share the concern with Borthwick. Giving him a short term role until the World Cup would give him valuable experience down the line, with expectations currently fairly low. Or are we committing to 3/5 years and saying he is our man, give him the time to learn? I’m just worried we’ll give him a couple of years, far too early, and then fire him and that’s another coach written off.

What are Andy Farrell’s plans?

p/d wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 10:13 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:35 am Is appointing Borthwick on a permanent contract the right decision? There are pros and cons with the biggest 'pro' the departure of Jones obviously. However, taking the decision to ditch Jones three years too late and in something of a muddled hurry makes me wonder if it is a mistake not to appoint a caretaker set-up. Is it a fully reasoned decision or panic to go straight for Borthwick?

I wish Borthwick well despite misgivings.

but move forward we must.

Yoda lives on

p/d wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 10:18 am I wonder if Jones foresaw his departure as part of his wider project for the WC

“Look, mate, it’s all part of the plan. I knew this was how it would work out when I first appointed Borthers. Not only was I hiding our plan in attack, defence and set piece until 2023, I was also hiding my departure date and successor. Wait till you read my next book.”

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:49 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:35 am Is appointing Borthwick on a permanent contract the right decision? There are pros and cons with the biggest 'pro' the departure of Jones obviously. However, taking the decision to ditch Jones three years too late and in something of a muddled hurry makes me wonder if it is a mistake not to appoint a caretaker set-up. Is it a fully reasoned decision or panic to go straight for Borthwick?

I wish Borthwick well despite misgivings.

This was the issue a lot of us mentioned when you repeatedly stated we should get rid. It’s all very well thinking a coach is done but you do need to replace them with someone better... and that is a small pool of people in tier 1 test rugby.

I wonder if Steve Bruce has pushed his resume through the letterbox

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 10:22 am

p/d wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 10:18 am I wonder if Jones foresaw his departure as part of his wider project for the WC

“Look, mate, it’s all part of the plan. I knew this was how it would work out when I first appointed Borthers. Not only was I hiding our plan in attack, defence and set piece until 2023, I was also hiding my departure date and successor. Wait till you read my next book.”

I wouldn't put it past him

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 10:21 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:35 am Is appointing Borthwick on a permanent contract the right decision? There are pros and cons with the biggest 'pro' the departure of Jones obviously. However, taking the decision to ditch Jones three years too late and in something of a muddled hurry makes me wonder if it is a mistake not to appoint a caretaker set-up. Is it a fully reasoned decision or panic to go straight for Borthwick?

I wish Borthwick well despite misgivings.

I still don’t get your ‘3 years too late’ thing, but I liked the original idea of Jones having a 2 year handover period after the World Cup. I think they were hoping Baxter would be ready to take over in 2021 but there were dozens of reasons nobody else was really in a position to take charge.

I share the concern with Borthwick. Giving him a short term role until the World Cup would give him valuable experience down the line, with expectations currently fairly low. Or are we committing to 3/5 years and saying he is our man, give him the time to learn? I’m just worried we’ll give him a couple of years, far too early, and then fire him and that’s another coach written off.

What are Andy Farrell’s plans?

Yes, I was going to say the same re Baxter, but Chiefs hit a brick wall somehow; maybe too long in the one job.

Andy Farrell would be a fascinating appointment, but he'd be mad to leave Ireland at this point, esp having been (rightly at the time) ditched by us.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 10:21 am
What are Andy Farrell’s plans?

Signed an extension through to 2025 in July.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 10:22 am

p/d wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 10:18 am I wonder if Jones foresaw his departure as part of his wider project for the WC

“Look, mate, it’s all part of the plan. I knew this was how it would work out when I first appointed Borthers. Not only was I hiding our plan in attack, defence and set piece until 2023, I was also hiding my departure date and successor. Wait till you read my next book.”

Well Jones has done some consulting work with Tigers to help the inexperienced attack coaches. Maybe he has laid out his grand plan to Borthers.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 10:21 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:35 am Is appointing Borthwick on a permanent contract the right decision? There are pros and cons with the biggest 'pro' the departure of Jones obviously. However, taking the decision to ditch Jones three years too late and in something of a muddled hurry makes me wonder if it is a mistake not to appoint a caretaker set-up. Is it a fully reasoned decision or panic to go straight for Borthwick?

I wish Borthwick well despite misgivings.

I still don’t get your ‘3 years too late’ thing, but I liked the original idea of Jones having a 2 year handover period after the World Cup. I think they were hoping Baxter would be ready to take over in 2021 but there were dozens of reasons nobody else was really in a position to take charge.

I share the concern with Borthwick. Giving him a short term role until the World Cup would give him valuable experience down the line, with expectations currently fairly low. Or are we committing to 3/5 years and saying he is our man, give him the time to learn? I’m just worried we’ll give him a couple of years, far too early, and then fire him and that’s another coach written off.

What are Andy Farrell’s plans?

Why would Borthwick take a 6 month contract in exchange for a job at Tigers where he's a) happy and b) has complete job security?

Dan MacFarland would have been high on my England interview list but his Ulster contract is lengthy so he might be a pricey option.

FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:12 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 10:22 am

p/d wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 10:18 am I wonder if Jones foresaw his departure as part of his wider project for the WC

“Look, mate, it’s all part of the plan. I knew this was how it would work out when I first appointed Borthers. Not only was I hiding our plan in attack, defence and set piece until 2023, I was also hiding my departure date and successor. Wait till you read my next book.”

Well Jones has done some consulting work with Tigers to help the inexperienced attack coaches. Maybe he has laid out his grand plan to Borthers.

Let‘s hope he hasn’t!

Gone, official on twitter

The Rugby Football Union (RFU) will now conclude the long-term work it has been undertaking on coach succession planning with changes set to be announced in the near future. In the interim, Richard Cockerill will take over the day to day running of the men’s performance team.

"It is important to recognise the huge contribution Eddie has made to English rugby, winning three Six Nations Championships, one Grand Slam and taking us to a Rugby World Cup Final," said RFU CEO, Bill Sweeney.

"He has the highest win ratio of any previous England head coach and has helped develop the leadership skills of many players and coaches. I am grateful to Eddie for all he has done for England across many areas of the game and the professional way in which he has approached reviewing the performance of the team. He has provided the panel with astute insight and meaningful lessons that will support the team performance going forward."

During his time in charge Jones steered England to three Six Nations titles, including a Grand Slam in 2016, two series wins in Australia, an unbeaten run of 18 matches, an Autumn Nations Cup, and a Rugby World Cup final in Japan.

"I am pleased with much that we have achieved as an England team and I look forward to watching the team’s performance in the future," said Jones. "Many of the players and I will no doubt keep in touch and I wish them all well in their future careers."

The decision for Eddie to leave was taken by the RFU board earlier today. Speaking about the decision, RFU Chair, Tom Ilube said: "The independent review panel regularly updates board on its discussions and findings. We are fully supportive of its process and recommendations."

cockers...ffs

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:32 am Gone, official on twitter

Changed the thread title.

Puja

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:35 am Am hearing that he’s being sacked on Monday. All payoffs being sorted and due to part companies.


Usually a very reliable source. Maybe my hope playing in too! We’ll see in 24/36 hours

Never doubted you EP

p/d wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:37 am

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:35 am Am hearing that he’s being sacked on Monday. All payoffs being sorted and due to part companies.


Usually a very reliable source. Maybe my hope playing in too! We’ll see in 24/36 hours

Never doubted you EP

Er, Monday?

Cockers running 'mens performance team'....is that broader than just the senior side?