RugbyRebels

Banquo wrote:

Timbo wrote:Personally, I'm a big fan of Joseph, but I do think it's fair to question where his attacking game is at the moment. He can't be a 13 that only makes things happen when he has time and space to operate in. Hes capable of more imo.

He does offer more though, he has been distributing a lot in midfield, and trying a lot of very effective grubbers through. Otherwise he's been very well marked in the THREE games Bath have played, with Priestland playing as a pivot in attack, in complete contrast to the style under Ford.

How do you suggest he produce 'more'?

As an addendum, Marchant's attacking numbers look excellent, but he also doesn't make the squad.

Timbo wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Timbo wrote:Personally, I'm a big fan of Joseph, but I do think it's fair to question where his attacking game is at the moment. He can't be a 13 that only makes things happen when he has time and space to operate in. Hes capable of more imo.

He does offer more though, he has been distributing a lot in midfield, and trying a lot of very effective grubbers through. Otherwise he's been very well marked in the THREE games Bath have played, with Priestland playing as a pivot in attack, in complete contrast to the style under Ford.

How do you suggest he produce 'more'?

As an addendum, Marchant's attacking numbers look excellent, but he also doesn't make the squad.

His distribution has improved, as has his short range kicking game. Neither are yet really top class though. His running game has stagnated a bit imo...As an international class 13 being heavily marked is only a slight mitigation, he needs to make things happen more often.

Mellsblue wrote:Ive just had another worry. With no JJ and with Slade in and Eddie stating he should concentrate on 13......you have Ford - Farrell - Slade and no real running threat, or Farrell - Teo - Slade/Ford - Farrell- Teo and an isolated (quality) playmaker. I'm not sure I like the balance of any of those options.

Banquo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Ive just had another worry. With no JJ and with Slade in and Eddie stating he should concentrate on 13......you have Ford - Farrell - Slade and no real running threat, or Farrell - Teo - Slade/Ford - Farrell- Teo and an isolated (quality) playmaker. I'm not sure I like the balance of any of those options.

We all know F and F will be starting, so this is what will unfold (unless Daly is in the mix there).

ah well.

belgarion wrote:I'm just going to wait until Oct 26 when the squad for the AIs is announced after which I will either
be OTT enthusiastic & hopeful or suicidally depressed. Until then this is just a training squad & Eddie being Eddie

Banquo wrote:That's me told; just sounded really crass the way Billy put it- does this apply to dynamic stretching as part of a warm up and warm down?
(these guys seem to be still in favour of stretching as part of warm down at least http://rugbyready.worldrugby.org/?section=76 ). I have to ask though, can Billy really not improve his flexibility now? Maybe its also what does 'stretching' mean.

Seems to me the critics want JJ to be making flashing breaks and scoring tries for fun. I'm not sure he can do that all by himself.

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote: Is that 'four try Robson' who was injured for last weekends game?

I was thinking more of 'two chargedown and loopy passing Robson' - I think they're related.

Banquo wrote: How can you 'dominate' at 13 without a fully functioning side round you? This sort of comment utterly baffles me.

I'm including the end of last season in this - when was the last time you looked at a Joseph game and thought, "Wow!" Cause he's definitely capable of wow.

Puja

On Robson, was that this season, in which case fair enough, though Youngs has hardly been on fire.

On JJ pretty much every game in defence. The concept of an outside back 'dominating' (maybe its me, but can we not use that word?) any game, let alone in a malfunctioning side is a bit odd (see Bath at the end of last season); mind, he was pretty handy v Scotland, for example. If you look at the back lines he has been operating in, and in the sides he has played in as a whole, you wouldn't expect to see flashing breaks-- you see him continually having to 'force attacks' in no space. Maybe Eddie is just accepting the other limitations in the team; I'd pick JJ just for his defence tbh though. Out of interest, what 13's are regularly making flashing breaks in the AP (assuming that is what you are awaiting?). And even if I agreed that, to simplify, 'he's not in great nick', his not great nick is still better than others' good in my view. If its a dropping, its a bit crass.

Mellsblue wrote:On Billy's interview on R2, I heard the first five mins. Now, we all know Billy's not the sharpest but for Chris Evans to be taking the piss out of professional, world class athlete about his pre-match routine was effing ridiculous. You're a bloody aging DJ and failed Top Gear presenter. At Billy's age you were driving a forklift around a warehouse and doing local radio. At twice his age you spent a year pissed, travelling round the world shagging Billie Piper (I'll admit to a slight bit of jealousy here) just because you've now run a couple of half marathons what gives you the right to laugh at a pro-rugby player. Smug prat. Rant over.

Which Tyler wrote:

Banquo wrote:That's me told; just sounded really crass the way Billy put it- does this apply to dynamic stretching as part of a warm up and warm down?
(these guys seem to be still in favour of stretching as part of warm down at least http://rugbyready.worldrugby.org/?section=76 ). I have to ask though, can Billy really not improve his flexibility now? Maybe its also what does 'stretching' mean.

Seems to me the critics want JJ to be making flashing breaks and scoring tries for fun. I'm not sure he can do that all by himself.

Stretching post-match can be part of the warm-down, a few hours later, or before bed; the closer to when the individual tends to cramp up the better.

Billy can improve his felxibility; but he'd increase his risk of injury whilst doing so; and it'll be a long, hard road for him, to make a relatively minimal gain.

Stretching means increasing the length of the muscles, and therefore the mobility of the joint (possibly at the expence of stability / strength).

Mellsblue wrote:JJ is a massive surprise. If it is a straight drop rather than a request from Bath etc, I'd be very, very disappointed. Sinkler is a strange one, too. I had hope of him being first choice by the World Cup. Williams must've been seriously impressive in Argentina.

On Billy's interview on R2, I heard the first five mins. Now, we all know Billy's not the sharpest but for Chris Evans to be taking the piss out of professional, world class athlete about his pre-match routine was effing ridiculous. You're a bloody aging DJ and failed Top Gear presenter. At Billy's age you were driving a forklift around a warehouse and doing local radio. At twice his age you spent a year pissed, travelling round the world shagging Billie Piper (I'll admit to a slight bit of jealousy here) just because you've now run a couple of half marathons what gives you the right to laugh at a pro-rugby player. Smug prat. Rant over.

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Ive just had another worry. With no JJ and with Slade in and Eddie stating he should concentrate on 13......you have Ford - Farrell - Slade and no real running threat, or Farrell - Teo - Slade/Ford - Farrell- Teo and an isolated (quality) playmaker. I'm not sure I like the balance of any of those options.

We all know F and F will be starting, so this is what will unfold (unless Daly is in the mix there).

ah well.

Ah, yes. I'd forgotten about Daly. I've just become used to thinking of him as wing at test level. I suppose he's the closest replacement but his defence certainly isn't as good - one on one or organisationally. It also probably means one of Nowell or Brown in the back three slowing it all down. May - Daly - Watson outside Joseph would be very exciting.

Which Tyler wrote:

Banquo wrote:That's me told; just sounded really crass the way Billy put it- does this apply to dynamic stretching as part of a warm up and warm down?
(these guys seem to be still in favour of stretching as part of warm down at least http://rugbyready.worldrugby.org/?section=76 ). I have to ask though, can Billy really not improve his flexibility now? Maybe its also what does 'stretching' mean.

Seems to me the critics want JJ to be making flashing breaks and scoring tries for fun. I'm not sure he can do that all by himself.

Stretching post-match can be part of the warm-down, a few hours later, or before bed; the closer to when the individual tends to cramp up the better.

Billy can improve his felxibility; but he'd increase his risk of injury whilst doing so; and it'll be a long, hard road for him, to make a relatively minimal gain.

Stretching means increasing the length of the muscles, and therefore the mobility of the joint (possibly at the expence of stability / strength).

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:
I was thinking more of 'two chargedown and loopy passing Robson' - I think they're related.



I'm including the end of last season in this - when was the last time you looked at a Joseph game and thought, "Wow!" Cause he's definitely capable of wow.

Puja

On Robson, was that this season, in which case fair enough, though Youngs has hardly been on fire.

On JJ pretty much every game in defence. The concept of an outside back 'dominating' (maybe its me, but can we not use that word?) any game, let alone in a malfunctioning side is a bit odd (see Bath at the end of last season); mind, he was pretty handy v Scotland, for example. If you look at the back lines he has been operating in, and in the sides he has played in as a whole, you wouldn't expect to see flashing breaks-- you see him continually having to 'force attacks' in no space. Maybe Eddie is just accepting the other limitations in the team; I'd pick JJ just for his defence tbh though. Out of interest, what 13's are regularly making flashing breaks in the AP (assuming that is what you are awaiting?). And even if I agreed that, to simplify, 'he's not in great nick', his not great nick is still better than others' good in my view. If its a dropping, its a bit crass.

That's the thing that I think Eddie is going for - Joseph's "pretty good" is better than most players' absolute best, but there's more to be got out of him. I suspect Eddie of playing silly buggers to see if he can get a reaction, same as he did with Haskell and Itoje.

That's a guess though. The mind of Eddie is ineffable and it may be that he just doesn't fancy him.

On Robson, yes that was this season. I'd agree that he's of a par with Youngs and Care or very very slightly above, but I respect Eddie not wanting to reward good enough.

And I apologise for using the word dominate.

Puja

Banquo wrote:

Timbo wrote:

Banquo wrote: He does offer more though, he has been distributing a lot in midfield, and trying a lot of very effective grubbers through. Otherwise he's been very well marked in the THREE games Bath have played, with Priestland playing as a pivot in attack, in complete contrast to the style under Ford.

How do you suggest he produce 'more'?

As an addendum, Marchant's attacking numbers look excellent, but he also doesn't make the squad.

His distribution has improved, as has his short range kicking game. Neither are yet really top class though. His running game has stagnated a bit imo...As an international class 13 being heavily marked is only a slight mitigation, he needs to make things happen more often.

How? and what does making things happen mean? Making breaks? Putting players away outside him?

He goes looking for work an awful lot, is putting people into space, and is making defences turn. Further, this 'judgement' is based on what, 3 games this season, in a Bath team with a new backline, who have been patchy as a whole.

Timbo wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Timbo wrote:
His distribution has improved, as has his short range kicking game. Neither are yet really top class though. His running game has stagnated a bit imo...As an international class 13 being heavily marked is only a slight mitigation, he needs to make things happen more often.

How? and what does making things happen mean? Making breaks? Putting players away outside him?

He goes looking for work an awful lot, is putting people into space, and is making defences turn. Further, this 'judgement' is based on what, 3 games this season, in a Bath team with a new backline, who have been patchy as a whole.

...personally I don't that fairly indicative of that part of his game more recently. Very little attempt to engage the defence, no hard or aggressive attempt to stress the opposition. And it's not just 3 games, he got dropped by Bath at the back end of last season, because aside from making his tackles he just wasn't doing anything...anonymous...not good enough (for his level of ability).

Banquo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:JJ is a massive surprise. If it is a straight drop rather than a request from Bath etc, I'd be very, very disappointed. Sinkler is a strange one, too. I had hope of him being first choice by the World Cup. Williams must've been seriously impressive in Argentina.

On Billy's interview on R2, I heard the first five mins. Now, we all know Billy's not the sharpest but for Chris Evans to be taking the piss out of professional, world class athlete about his pre-match routine was effing ridiculous. You're a bloody aging DJ and failed Top Gear presenter. At Billy's age you were driving a forklift around a warehouse and doing local radio. At twice his age you spent a year pissed, travelling round the world shagging Billie Piper (I'll admit to a slight bit of jealousy here) just because you've now run a couple of half marathons what gives you the right to laugh at a pro-rugby player. Smug prat. Rant over.

I thought he was more incredulous than pi55 taking; pretty sure BV also amusingly dropped the f bomb. I'm not sure letting Billy chat without some chaperoning is a great idea, given what he also said re the Lions.

On Evans.....makes me laugh, is worth millions, and has seen his share of decent 'action'- and does raise a bomb for charidee. Fair play, I say- though he is marmite in extremis.

Banquo wrote:meanwhile Burns starts for Bath. At 15. Bet he's chuffed.

Oakboy wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:On Billy's interview on R2, I heard the first five mins. Now, we all know Billy's not the sharpest but for Chris Evans to be taking the piss out of professional, world class athlete about his pre-match routine was effing ridiculous. You're a bloody aging DJ and failed Top Gear presenter. At Billy's age you were driving a forklift around a warehouse and doing local radio. At twice his age you spent a year pissed, travelling round the world shagging Billie Piper (I'll admit to a slight bit of jealousy here) just because you've now run a couple of half marathons what gives you the right to laugh at a pro-rugby player. Smug prat. Rant over.

P/D'd be drooling over the Billie Piper reference, I'd expect!

Puja wrote: And I apologise for using the word dominate.

Puja

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote:meanwhile Burns starts for Bath. At 15. Bet he's chuffed.

Who do you think is least pleased over their summer swop, Burns or Ford?!?!? It's very, very early days but it's not going too well for either so far.