Re: America
Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2024 7:07 pm
Bidens pulled out! There’s still hope that Trump can be stopped at the ballot box!
I mean, the primary wasn't exactly an actual competition. No-one sensible stood against him, so the options were basically "or Biden."Coco wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 8:26 pm I feel bad for the man, hes obviously been used this entire time. His fat rich donors withheld money to force him out, regardless of what his primary voters actually wanted and voted for.
Seems the rich donors were more of a threat to democracy than anyone else.
#muhdemocracy
Biden wasn’t held to any challenge in the primaries. I get that’s the convention but it’s a crap convention when at least one sensible challenger can put a bit of scrutiny on a sitting president.Puja wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 10:24 pmI mean, the primary wasn't exactly an actual competition. No-one sensible stood against him, so the options were basically "or Biden."Coco wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 8:26 pm I feel bad for the man, hes obviously been used this entire time. His fat rich donors withheld money to force him out, regardless of what his primary voters actually wanted and voted for.
Seems the rich donors were more of a threat to democracy than anyone else.
#muhdemocracy
You're not wrong on the influence money has on US politics though. Citizens United is a blight on your democracy.
Puja
I’m always interested which events prompt responses from you on here. You have a very different perspective to most. Of course there’s a divide between party and supporters, but that’s not a new thing or limited to the democrats is it?Coco wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 11:21 pm While I understand both your points, thats how it works here. Doesnt matter if he had a challenger. The D party should have promoted a decent challenger at that time. A primary was held and he won for the D party. The people spoke with their vote. Its been well known for nearly 4 yrs Biden's faculties were in decline. People chose to overlook it and act like nothing was wrong and the people speaking up with concerns were cast off as bigots, conspiracy theorists, and traitors. Reasonable people had valid concerns. Nothing changed until the donor money train vanished like a fart in the wind, then all of a sudden he needs to be forced out by his own party. Thats not democracy - thats a huge FU to the voters... and nothing short of resembling a coup.
Now the delegates will decide who runs and the people... the voters... will have no say.
Destroying the very democracy they harp on about day and night in the pursuit of power.
Except in November there will be an election.Coco wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 11:21 pm While I understand both your points, thats how it works here. Doesnt matter if he had a challenger. The D party should have promoted a decent challenger at that time. A primary was held and he won for the D party. The people spoke with their vote. Its been well known for nearly 4 yrs Biden's faculties were in decline. People chose to overlook it and act like nothing was wrong and the people speaking up with concerns were cast off as bigots, conspiracy theorists, and traitors. Reasonable people had valid concerns. Nothing changed until the donor money train vanished like a fart in the wind, then all of a sudden he needs to be forced out by his own party. Thats not democracy - thats a huge FU to the voters... and nothing short of resembling a coup.
Now the delegates will decide who runs and the people... the voters... will have no say.
Destroying the very democracy they harp on about day and night in the pursuit of power.
More than that, the rules say that the Convention decides. The delegates are only pledged if their candidate remains. As for "the D party" promoting a decent challenger, that just isn't how things are done. There was a challenger who wasn't some numpty but an actual sitting congressman who Biden defeated handily.J Dory wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 12:27 amExcept in November there will be an election.Coco wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 11:21 pm While I understand both your points, thats how it works here. Doesnt matter if he had a challenger. The D party should have promoted a decent challenger at that time. A primary was held and he won for the D party. The people spoke with their vote. Its been well known for nearly 4 yrs Biden's faculties were in decline. People chose to overlook it and act like nothing was wrong and the people speaking up with concerns were cast off as bigots, conspiracy theorists, and traitors. Reasonable people had valid concerns. Nothing changed until the donor money train vanished like a fart in the wind, then all of a sudden he needs to be forced out by his own party. Thats not democracy - thats a huge FU to the voters... and nothing short of resembling a coup.
Now the delegates will decide who runs and the people... the voters... will have no say.
Destroying the very democracy they harp on about day and night in the pursuit of power.
It's true that Biden did have competition, but none of the big beasts went against him. There was never the sense of jeopardy over who might win compared to his nomination 4 years previously. A sitting president is given an almost free ride in many ways, which has helped cause this problem.Eugene Wrayburn wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 1:35 amMore than that, the rules say that the Convention decides. The delegates are only pledged if their candidate remains. As for "the D party" promoting a decent challenger, that just isn't how things are done. There was a challenger who wasn't some numpty but an actual sitting congressman who Biden defeated handily.J Dory wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 12:27 amExcept in November there will be an election.Coco wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 11:21 pm While I understand both your points, thats how it works here. Doesnt matter if he had a challenger. The D party should have promoted a decent challenger at that time. A primary was held and he won for the D party. The people spoke with their vote. Its been well known for nearly 4 yrs Biden's faculties were in decline. People chose to overlook it and act like nothing was wrong and the people speaking up with concerns were cast off as bigots, conspiracy theorists, and traitors. Reasonable people had valid concerns. Nothing changed until the donor money train vanished like a fart in the wind, then all of a sudden he needs to be forced out by his own party. Thats not democracy - thats a huge FU to the voters... and nothing short of resembling a coup.
Now the delegates will decide who runs and the people... the voters... will have no say.
Destroying the very democracy they harp on about day and night in the pursuit of power.
Anyway I think this is probably the right thing - the second best time to plant a tree being now. Biden might have won but it seemed pretty unlikely. I don't doubt that he can govern (right now) but he's lost the ability to campaign and campaigns still matter. And now anyone is welcome to stand and get crushed by the support for Harris.
Exactly, which is why it has taken something astoundingly bad to get him out of the way.Sandydragon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 9:58 amIt's true that Biden did have competition, but none of the big beasts went against him. There was never the sense of jeopardy over who might win compared to his nomination 4 years previously. A sitting president is given an almost free ride in many ways, which has helped cause this problem.Eugene Wrayburn wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 1:35 amMore than that, the rules say that the Convention decides. The delegates are only pledged if their candidate remains. As for "the D party" promoting a decent challenger, that just isn't how things are done. There was a challenger who wasn't some numpty but an actual sitting congressman who Biden defeated handily.
Anyway I think this is probably the right thing - the second best time to plant a tree being now. Biden might have won but it seemed pretty unlikely. I don't doubt that he can govern (right now) but he's lost the ability to campaign and campaigns still matter. And now anyone is welcome to stand and get crushed by the support for Harris.
As pointed out below, thank heavens for the early debate. I don't think the fact that Joe Biden was getting older and frailer is a huge shock to anyone and had to be factored in, but that debate was abysmal, followed up by the NATO conference. `hopefully, this hasn't been done too late.Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 10:47 amExactly, which is why it has taken something astoundingly bad to get him out of the way.Sandydragon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 9:58 amIt's true that Biden did have competition, but none of the big beasts went against him. There was never the sense of jeopardy over who might win compared to his nomination 4 years previously. A sitting president is given an almost free ride in many ways, which has helped cause this problem.Eugene Wrayburn wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 1:35 am
More than that, the rules say that the Convention decides. The delegates are only pledged if their candidate remains. As for "the D party" promoting a decent challenger, that just isn't how things are done. There was a challenger who wasn't some numpty but an actual sitting congressman who Biden defeated handily.
Anyway I think this is probably the right thing - the second best time to plant a tree being now. Biden might have won but it seemed pretty unlikely. I don't doubt that he can govern (right now) but he's lost the ability to campaign and campaigns still matter. And now anyone is welcome to stand and get crushed by the support for Harris.
It's just possible that the timing was close to perfect (excluding it happening way before the primaries) - any sooner and there would've been ambitious Dems eyeing up a potential run and taking lumps out of each other which is the last thing that was needed. Kamala Harris is very far from the perfect candidate, but she comes with the benefit of the Biden warchest, is an excellent demographic to attack Trump's age, criminality, racism, and facilitation of abortion bans, and it's not like many of the other options are perfect either. This close to the convention, the sack of cats is going to end up uniting around her pretty quickly, and concentrate on fighting for the VP role instead of assisting Trump's attack lines.Sandydragon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 10:57 amAs pointed out below, thank heavens for the early debate. I don't think the fact that Joe Biden was getting older and frailer is a huge shock to anyone and had to be factored in, but that debate was abysmal, followed up by the NATO conference. `hopefully, this hasn't been done too late.Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 10:47 amExactly, which is why it has taken something astoundingly bad to get him out of the way.Sandydragon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 9:58 am
It's true that Biden did have competition, but none of the big beasts went against him. There was never the sense of jeopardy over who might win compared to his nomination 4 years previously. A sitting president is given an almost free ride in many ways, which has helped cause this problem.
There are divisions in each party.Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 12:01 amI’m always interested which events prompt responses from you on here. You have a very different perspective to most. Of course there’s a divide between party and supporters, but that’s not a new thing or limited to the democrats is it?Coco wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 11:21 pm While I understand both your points, thats how it works here. Doesnt matter if he had a challenger. The D party should have promoted a decent challenger at that time. A primary was held and he won for the D party. The people spoke with their vote. Its been well known for nearly 4 yrs Biden's faculties were in decline. People chose to overlook it and act like nothing was wrong and the people speaking up with concerns were cast off as bigots, conspiracy theorists, and traitors. Reasonable people had valid concerns. Nothing changed until the donor money train vanished like a fart in the wind, then all of a sudden he needs to be forced out by his own party. Thats not democracy - thats a huge FU to the voters... and nothing short of resembling a coup.
Now the delegates will decide who runs and the people... the voters... will have no say.
Destroying the very democracy they harp on about day and night in the pursuit of power.
Of course when confidence drops the money dries up. It’s a business after all.
Does this strengthen or weaken DT’s chances in your mind?
Only 29 states have electors that are bound by popular vote.morepork wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 1:33 am Thwarting democracy. Classic. Rich lister backers. Classic. Let’s see what the electoral college Vs popular vote throws up this cycle. Let’s also see immigration dominate the domestic narrative, ignoring an economy that needs to evolve and deal with the scientific dead end that populist focus is taking us down. Again. Fuck corporate welfare and a pox on it’s house.
Just heard it mentioned that Obama can theoretically run as VP, and even become President again if Harris were to step down, which would be pretty funny though wildly unlikely. I'd hope it's likelier than Michelle at least, who for some reason people are still talking about as a serious candidate to run.Puja wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 11:09 amIt's just possible that the timing was close to perfect (excluding it happening way before the primaries) - any sooner and there would've been ambitious Dems eyeing up a potential run and taking lumps out of each other which is the last thing that was needed. Kamala Harris is very far from the perfect candidate, but she comes with the benefit of the Biden warchest, is an excellent demographic to attack Trump's age, criminality, racism, and facilitation of abortion bans, and it's not like many of the other options are perfect either. This close to the convention, the sack of cats is going to end up uniting around her pretty quickly, and concentrate on fighting for the VP role instead of assisting Trump's attack lines.Sandydragon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 10:57 amAs pointed out below, thank heavens for the early debate. I don't think the fact that Joe Biden was getting older and frailer is a huge shock to anyone and had to be factored in, but that debate was abysmal, followed up by the NATO conference. `hopefully, this hasn't been done too late.Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 10:47 am
Exactly, which is why it has taken something astoundingly bad to get him out of the way.
Who would be the best VP for her? It's tempting to say "Old White Male", but I don't think that would reassure any of the racists or misogynists particularly anyway (and let's face it, they were probably Trump voters anyway) and gives the impression of her being given a supervisor. Maybe Warnock from Georgia to burnish the Christian credentials of the ticket (although I don't know if that would necessitate a Senate election in Georgia, which might not be a good idea rn).
Puja
I think her VP will best be determined by any states in the balance. Winsome in California brings little ot the party realistically. Maybe someone from one of the mid west/northern swing states?Puja wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 11:09 amIt's just possible that the timing was close to perfect (excluding it happening way before the primaries) - any sooner and there would've been ambitious Dems eyeing up a potential run and taking lumps out of each other which is the last thing that was needed. Kamala Harris is very far from the perfect candidate, but she comes with the benefit of the Biden warchest, is an excellent demographic to attack Trump's age, criminality, racism, and facilitation of abortion bans, and it's not like many of the other options are perfect either. This close to the convention, the sack of cats is going to end up uniting around her pretty quickly, and concentrate on fighting for the VP role instead of assisting Trump's attack lines.Sandydragon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 10:57 amAs pointed out below, thank heavens for the early debate. I don't think the fact that Joe Biden was getting older and frailer is a huge shock to anyone and had to be factored in, but that debate was abysmal, followed up by the NATO conference. `hopefully, this hasn't been done too late.Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 10:47 am
Exactly, which is why it has taken something astoundingly bad to get him out of the way.
Who would be the best VP for her? It's tempting to say "Old White Male", but I don't think that would reassure any of the racists or misogynists particularly anyway (and let's face it, they were probably Trump voters anyway) and gives the impression of her being given a supervisor. Maybe Warnock from Georgia to burnish the Christian credentials of the ticket (although I don't know if that would necessitate a Senate election in Georgia, which might not be a good idea rn).
Puja
well except for Michelle and Tay Tay. Probably more of an indictment
The other week, I saw her name trending on twitter, wondered what it was and discovered a widespread conspiracy theory that she is trans, including AI photographs of her as teenage "Big Mikey" alongside a teenage Barack, analysis of her "manly features" (with comparisons to Melania and bonus racism), and dissections of pictures showing folds in her trousers that are "clearly a penis".Sandydragon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 1:52 pmThe Michele Obama candidature is interesting. She has literally no experience at that level of government, but does have name recognition. Polling suggests that she would beat Trump, so it's not a surprise that her name continues to be floated. It would be an interesting twist.