RugbyRebels

whatisthejava wrote:

hp18 wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:Also forgetting Ryan Grant,

Still some good rugby in that player but he needs a good run of not being injured

I fear that ship may have sailed. Contract is up this year, may be good for all parties if he moves on.

Id be surprised if an AP team doesn't pick him up for cover, the guy has class and skill but seems to have struggled since the last Lions

I remember reading after that he really regrets not confronting Gatland about his selection and fighting for the shirt

It was also when the scrum laws changed. Apart from the 18-24 month period where he was great his career either side of that has been pretty unremarkable. At 31 or so he has the chance for another couple of years at a good level if he can find the form.

whatisthejava wrote: Id rather have Reid than Sutherland , but I know thats not universally shared

I don't think there's a lot between then but VC and I guess Humphries don't rate Reid given he wasn't on the bench last week.

whatisthejava wrote:Highlights of the Georgia scrum demolishing the Samoan one, will have to be careful and hope the guys don't have as many scrums in the first 40. Think the guys were quite nervy about the RG scrum

Aye, my thoughts exactly.

Wont matter how good we think our backs are, if we get minced up front it'll be close and cagey.

If they stick with Dell and Allan for the loosehead (and I'm not sure that they've much choice) then it's imperative that they select a hooker that can hook the ball quickly and get things going. However I'm it sure such a player exists in Scotland unless they call up Cochrane (and I've heard worse ideas).

I don't want to see us take Georgia too lightly. Most people turning up to the game will be expecting a cricket score but the likelihood is that they'll make the game stuffy and difficult in much the same way Argentina did. There's room for some youngsters but only if they're in form. I'd like to see Bradbury start again, Hoyland on the wing (for Maitland) and ideally Toolis in the second row. Wouldn't be unhappy if Kinghorn was 23 but equally fine if he's kept with Edinburgh.

I agree that Laidlaw should be dropped for now. I actually think that his biggest issue is the quality of ball presentation. Against Aus it was excellent and he, by and large, got it moving pretty quickly and made good decisions. He doesn't seem to cope as well when it's messy and there are boots flying everywhere, not in the same way Murray does for example.

switchskier wrote: He doesn't seem to cope as well when it's messy and there are boots flying everywhere, not in the same way Murray does for example.

Not being funny but with the Irish back row and the Munster pack when does Murray ever get the crap ball Laidlaw does

Scotland made a decision to not put too many men in the ruck and it caused us a whole heap of problems , which slowed Greg down, if we had put another 1 or 2 men in we would have been fine

whatisthejava wrote:

switchskier wrote: He doesn't seem to cope as well when it's messy and there are boots flying everywhere, not in the same way Murray does for example.

Not being funny but with the Irish back row and the Munster pack when does Murray ever get the crap ball Laidlaw does

Scotland made a decision to not put too many men in the ruck and it caused us a whole heap of problems , which slowed Greg down, if we had put another 1 or 2 men in we would have been fine

How dare you defend Laidlaw. Did you not recieve the memo?

whatisthejava wrote:

switchskier wrote: He doesn't seem to cope as well when it's messy and there are boots flying everywhere, not in the same way Murray does for example.

Not being funny but with the Irish back row and the Munster pack when does Murray ever get the crap ball Laidlaw does

Scotland made a decision to not put too many men in the ruck and it caused us a whole heap of problems , which slowed Greg down, if we had put another 1 or 2 men in we would have been fine

Aye, our ruck clearance is utter horse shit at the moment. I think it goes a way to explaining the hysterical response on here, that when we finally do get good, clean, quick ball, it's instantly slowed down. That's a team tactic in my humble, not a Laidlaw thing.

I'll get the ban hammer out you cunts.

OptimisticJock wrote: How dare you defend Laidlaw. Did you not recieve the memo?

Edinburgh in Exile wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:

switchskier wrote: He doesn't seem to cope as well when it's messy and there are boots flying everywhere, not in the same way Murray does for example.

Not being funny but with the Irish back row and the Munster pack when does Murray ever get the crap ball Laidlaw does

Scotland made a decision to not put too many men in the ruck and it caused us a whole heap of problems , which slowed Greg down, if we had put another 1 or 2 men in we would have been fine

Aye, our ruck clearance is utter horse shit at the moment. I think it goes a way to explaining the hysterical response on here, that when we finally do get good, clean, quick ball, it's instantly slowed down. That's a team tactic in my humble, not a Laidlaw thing.

The thing where Laidlaw put his hands on the ball, forward pods start charging, then he just doesn't bother passing and waits for everyone to be stood still, that's our plan?!

Edinburgh in Exile wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:

switchskier wrote: He doesn't seem to cope as well when it's messy and there are boots flying everywhere, not in the same way Murray does for example.

Not being funny but with the Irish back row and the Munster pack when does Murray ever get the crap ball Laidlaw does

Scotland made a decision to not put too many men in the ruck and it caused us a whole heap of problems , which slowed Greg down, if we had put another 1 or 2 men in we would have been fine

Aye, our ruck clearance is utter horse shit at the moment. I think it goes a way to explaining the hysterical response on here, that when we finally do get good, clean, quick ball, it's instantly slowed down. That's a team tactic in my humble, not a Laidlaw thing.

The thing where Laidlaw put his hands on the ball, forward pods start charging, then he just doesn't bother passing and waits for everyone to be stood still, that's our plan?!

Mikey Brown wrote:

Edinburgh in Exile wrote:

whatisthejava wrote: Not being funny but with the Irish back row and the Munster pack when does Murray ever get the crap ball Laidlaw does

Scotland made a decision to not put too many men in the ruck and it caused us a whole heap of problems , which slowed Greg down, if we had put another 1 or 2 men in we would have been fine

Aye, our ruck clearance is utter horse shit at the moment. I think it goes a way to explaining the hysterical response on here, that when we finally do get good, clean, quick ball, it's instantly slowed down. That's a team tactic in my humble, not a Laidlaw thing.

The thing where Laidlaw put his hands on the ball, forward pods start charging, then he just doesn't bother passing and waits for everyone to be stood still, that's our plan?!

Well aye, slowing everything down. Dramatic example aside, its either that, or Laidlaw is going off script and Cotter is unlike any other coach I've ever encountered and not only tolerates it, he rewards it.

Doesn't seem likely to me.

Right. So it's all 8 forwards going off script in every single game by trying to actually maintain some momentum when we get it. Doesn't give me much more faith in Vern (or our pack) either.

Edinburgh in Exile wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:

Edinburgh in Exile wrote:
Aye, our ruck clearance is utter horse shit at the moment. I think it goes a way to explaining the hysterical response on here, that when we finally do get good, clean, quick ball, it's instantly slowed down. That's a team tactic in my humble, not a Laidlaw thing.

The thing where Laidlaw put his hands on the ball, forward pods start charging, then he just doesn't bother passing and waits for everyone to be stood still, that's our plan?!

Well aye, slowing everything down. Dramatic example aside, its either that, or Laidlaw is going off script and Cotter is unlike any other coach I've ever encountered and not only tolerates it, he rewards it.

Doesn't seem likely to me.

You don't have to go fast every time, a good example of this was in the last couple of mins , against RG it looked like we were going side to side and slow and then suddenly there was a player out of position and we capitalised on it, I accept Laidlaw slows it down, but Scotland tend to opt for this control game of slowing it down and then looking for people to be pulled in before spinning it wide , all our scrums half do it so it must be a game plan

Whats more interesting is whenever Laidlaw isn't there, J Gary tends to be the scrum half and he usually whips it straight out to a forward waiting

An interesting stat I heard was the average time the ball is available at a ruck, NZ tend to be between 1 - 3 seconds , NH tend to be 3 - 5

Mikey Brown wrote:Right. So it's all 8 forwards going off script in every single game by trying to actually maintain some momentum when we get it. Doesn't give me much more faith in Vern (or our pack) either.

Not at all catman, as I said, dramatic example aside. I just think we don't execute slow ball as well as they hope.

Hmm. There absolutely are times when it is right to slow things down, and Laidlaw does this very well sometimes. But turning fast, attacking ball in to slow, erratic ball is just not a thing we should be doing. If we're that terrified of fast ball we should just give up on mixing it with the big boys.

Mikey Brown wrote:Right. So it's all 8 forwards going off script in every single game by trying to actually maintain some momentum when we get it. Doesn't give me much more faith in Vern (or our pack) either.

A little revisionist I feel. What I mostly see is pods of forwards waiting but not ones starting and then checking their runs forwards. It was also interesting to hear how often the ref Mike picked up Scottish forwards shouting 'he's on his own' when in defence. Suggests that is something that they very much try and avoid in attack.

That's not to excuse Laidlaw entirely but my biggest issue is that the speed and accuracy of his pass seems to have gone awol.

Mikey Brown wrote:Hmm. There absolutely are times when it is right to slow things down, and Laidlaw does this very well sometimes. But turning fast, attacking ball in to slow, erratic ball is just not a thing we should be doing. If we're that terrified of fast ball we should just give up on mixing it with the big boys.

I don't disagree mate, don't confuse my shithouse attempt at explaining this reoccorance as endorsement of it.

Revisionist? I feel I've been saying that for about 3 years. Plenty of gash passing in the mix doesn't really change that, it's equally to blame for the stifling effect that often comes from 9.

I'm not saying he's the worst player ever, or that this is our only issue, but it has been an issue for a long, long time. We don't seem to be doing (or even trying) anything to solve it.

Good team but pretty pathetic that Cotter is yet again making little effort to develop younger players against smaller teams like Georgia.

Any of you lot worried about this game?

No.

You would say that.

24 NOV SCOTLAND ADD EXPERIENCE FOR RUGBY PARK RETURN

Head Coach Vern Cotter has added international experience to the Scotland side named to face Georgia at Rugby Park in Kilmarnock this Saturday (26 November, kick-off 2.30pm) – live on BBC.

The match will be the national team’s second venture to the Ayrshire ground, after defeating Tonga 37-12 at the home of Kilmarnock FC in November 2014.

Rugby Park boasts a World Rugby approved 3G pitch, and Scotland’s 2014 fixture at the venue was globally ground-breaking as the first international match involving a tier-one nation to be held on a fully-artificial surface.

Cotter said: “Our players are excited to be back in Kilmarnock and having the west country supporting us like they did two years ago will be great.

“The crowd’s enthusiasm will be key to getting a good performance against Georgia. The players feed off the energy from the stands, it’s one of these tangible things and really does help spur on the guys.”

There are five new faces in the starting line-up who add a further 125 caps to the side that overcame Argentina 19-16 in Edinburgh last weekend.

Centre Mark Bennett is the only change to the back division, with the Olympic silver medallist from Cumnock replacing the injured Huw Jones (foot) to confirm a homecoming to the Ayrshire ground.

It will be Bennett’s first game at the stadium, having missed the outings of both Scotland and Glasgow Warriors in previous years. It will be his first Scotland appearance since February.

Bennett will reform a familiar midfield partnership with clubmate Alex Dunbar in front of returning back-three players Stuart Hogg, Sean Maitland and Tommy Seymour.

The remaining changes occur in the pack, with cap centurion Ross Ford returning to the starting front-row alongside returning props Allan Dell and Zander Fagerson.

Lock Richie Gray has recovered from his suspected concussion to re-join brother Jonny in the second-row, while Rob Harley and Ryan Wilson come in to start in the back-row with the reinstated Hamish Watson.

The match will be Harley’s first start since the 2015 RBS 6 Nations.

Cotter added: “We’ve learned a lot from our previous Tests against Australia and Argentina and that’s what these games are about – learning what worked and what didn’t and making sure we improve with every game.

“Knowledge gained from our one-point loss to Australia and 83rd minute victory over Argentina will be important in negotiating Saturday’s game in the best way possible to get the win we want.

“Georgia are striving to be among the world’s best as they knock on the door of the top ten in the world rankings.

“We are expecting a typical Georgian game. They will be physical up front as they play a forwards-based game, however they are also developing their backs.”

Hooker Fraser Brown, lock Grant Gilchrist and John Barclay – who started last week’s game – are selected on the bench as consequence of the changes, while a further change to the replacements sees Rory Hughes selected in place of Tim Visser.

Scotland team to play Georgia at Rugby Park
Saturday 26 November (kick-off 2.30pm) – live on BBC

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 47 caps; 11 tries, 3 pens, 64 points

14 Sean Maitland (Saracens) – 25 caps; 4 tries, 20 points
13 Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors) – 16 caps; 6 tries, 30 points
12 Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors) – 18 caps; 5 tries, 25 points
11 Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 30 caps; 13 tries, 65 points

10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors) – 21 caps; 2 tries, 3 cons, 1 pen, 19 points
9 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Gloucester) – 55 caps; 4 tries, 69 cons, 133 pens, 557 points

1 Allan Dell (Edinburgh Rugby) – 2 caps
2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) – 101 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
3 Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 3 caps
4 Richie Gray (Toulouse) – 59 caps; 3 tries, 15 points
5 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 27 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
6 Rob Harley (Glasgow Warriors) – 18 caps; 1 try, 5 points
7 Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 4 caps
8 Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 22 caps

Substitutes
16 Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 19 caps
17 Alex Allan (Glasgow Warriors) – 2 caps
18 Moray Low (Exeter Chiefs) – 36 caps
19 Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby) – 14 caps; 1 try, 5 points
20 John Barclay (Scarlets) – 54 caps; 4 tries, 20 points
21 Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) – uncapped
22 Pete Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 22 caps; 2 tries, 1 con, 1 pen, 15 points
23 Rory Hughes (Glasgow Warriors) – 1 cap

Unavailable through injury: Alasdair Dickinson (hamstring), John Hardie (ankle), Huw Jones (foot), Henry Pyrgos (knee).

If it's not bad enough including Wilson and Harley it's at the expense of Bradbury. Cotter out!

OptimisticJock wrote:If it's not bad enough including Wilson and Harley it's at the expense of Bradbury. Cotter out!

I'm beginning to think Wilson is Vern's secret child. Baffled by Harley getting picked