RugbyRebels

Sourdust wrote:We had the same old circles going around on ScrumV tonight.

If we don't play our "top" players, we drop places, drop points, lose money. If we won't pick new caps in a dead rubber, when will we?

Jiffy says "How can you pick players who aren't the best?" Gwyn replies "How can you know they're the best if you wont try alternatives?"

If we stick to the same 23 next week and win, we'll have salvaged our pride and secured the short-term future, at the cost of having learned absolutely nothing, again.

If we pick new blood and lose, we'll have a few valuable answers, but we'll be left holding the effective wooden spoon (Italy don't count) and confidence will be rock-bottom. But then, does it really matter whether we come 3rd, 4th or 5th? Or rather, accepting that it matters a BIT, does it really matter ENOUGH?

I don't know the answer, but I know what I think I'd do: Leave the starting 15 the same, perhaps with Taulupe and/or Clart in there. But load the bench with genuine wildcards; Steff Evans/Keelan Giles, Olly Cracknell/James Davies, Aled Davies/Tom Habberfield, Christian Dacey/Sam Parry. Commit to bringing all or most of these "finishers" on with 25-30 to go, unless there are powerful extenuating circumstances which do NOT include the score being close; in other words, injuries/cards. Make it clear to the starters that preparing the match for the finishers to flourish is their responsibility, rather than it being the latter's job to get the old guard out of the shit.

Sandydragon wrote:Nighty, wind your neck in. If you wish to discuss Welsh rugby then carry in, but this is just blatant wumming and it won't be tolerated.

joshfishkins wrote:

Sourdust wrote:We had the same old circles going around on ScrumV tonight.

If we don't play our "top" players, we drop places, drop points, lose money. If we won't pick new caps in a dead rubber, when will we?

Jiffy says "How can you pick players who aren't the best?" Gwyn replies "How can you know they're the best if you wont try alternatives?"

If we stick to the same 23 next week and win, we'll have salvaged our pride and secured the short-term future, at the cost of having learned absolutely nothing, again.

If we pick new blood and lose, we'll have a few valuable answers, but we'll be left holding the effective wooden spoon (Italy don't count) and confidence will be rock-bottom. But then, does it really matter whether we come 3rd, 4th or 5th? Or rather, accepting that it matters a BIT, does it really matter ENOUGH?
See previous post.
I don't know the answer, but I know what I think I'd do: Leave the starting 15 the same, perhaps with Taulupe and/or Clart in there. But load the bench with genuine wildcards; Steff Evans/Keelan Giles, Olly Cracknell/James Davies, Aled Davies/Tom Habberfield, Christian Dacey/Sam Parry. Commit to bringing all or most of these "finishers" on with 25-30 to go, unless there are powerful extenuating circumstances which do NOT include the score being close; in other words, injuries/cards. Make it clear to the starters that preparing the match for the finishers to flourish is their responsibility, rather than it being the latter's job to get the old guard out of the shit.

This is spot on. Howley is between a rock and a hard place still as far as I'm concerned. His inability /refusal to blood new players in the autumn means we have no idea of their ability to step up now. What's the prize pot difference between 2nd and 3rd/4th/5th? If it isn't significant we should just experiment and start with Sam Davies.

Oh, and Nighty Night, I was out having a life, rather than having an Internet argument with an imbecile.

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morepork wrote:Someone on here commented that Halfpenny has not scored an international try for four years. That is a bit of a worry for an outside back. I'm not sure Gatland et.al. have any planned moves or game plans that involve the fullback in anything other than kicking. It's turned a smart talented footballer into a total robot.

Sourdust wrote:

morepork wrote:Someone on here commented that Halfpenny has not scored an international try for four years. That is a bit of a worry for an outside back. I'm not sure Gatland et.al. have any planned moves or game plans that involve the fullback in anything other than kicking. It's turned a smart talented footballer into a total robot.

I think there's genuine doubt as to ½p's place in the team, for the first time in six years. I actually thought he had a better attacking game on Friday than for a while, but that's not saying much. What's particularly frustrating is that he doesn't seem to have lost much, if any, of his speed - witness his acceleration for the first try - but he just so rarely uses it. Now that his defensive game - while still very good - seems less superhuman than before, it's no longer heretical to ask what he's there for. Certainly if Biggar is going to stay at 10, we don't really need ½p for goal kicks.

I'm nowhere near calling for him to be dropped yet, but I might at least countenance a back three without him now, and even that feels weird.

Sandydragon wrote:

Sourdust wrote:

morepork wrote:Someone on here commented that Halfpenny has not scored an international try for four years. That is a bit of a worry for an outside back. I'm not sure Gatland et.al. have any planned moves or game plans that involve the fullback in anything other than kicking. It's turned a smart talented footballer into a total robot.

I think there's genuine doubt as to ½p's place in the team, for the first time in six years. I actually thought he had a better attacking game on Friday than for a while, but that's not saying much. What's particularly frustrating is that he doesn't seem to have lost much, if any, of his speed - witness his acceleration for the first try - but he just so rarely uses it. Now that his defensive game - while still very good - seems less superhuman than before, it's no longer heretical to ask what he's there for. Certainly if Biggar is going to stay at 10, we don't really need ½p for goal kicks.

I'm nowhere near calling for him to be dropped yet, but I might at least countenance a back three without him now, and even that feels weird.

Agreed. He is still solid and reliable, and his pass to North for the try was spot on. But, he doesn't challenge defences (is that him or the team tactics?) and Liam does at least keep defenders honest. I'd happily swap the 2 anyway, but with Halfpenny's kicking not being the nailed oncert for 3 points that it was, he needs to up his game to keep his place, with the likes of Evans and Gilles, not to mention Amos, pushing for inclusion.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Sourdust wrote:
I think there's genuine doubt as to ½p's place in the team, for the first time in six years. I actually thought he had a better attacking game on Friday than for a while, but that's not saying much. What's particularly frustrating is that he doesn't seem to have lost much, if any, of his speed - witness his acceleration for the first try - but he just so rarely uses it. Now that his defensive game - while still very good - seems less superhuman than before, it's no longer heretical to ask what he's there for. Certainly if Biggar is going to stay at 10, we don't really need ½p for goal kicks.

I'm nowhere near calling for him to be dropped yet, but I might at least countenance a back three without him now, and even that feels weird.

Agreed. He is still solid and reliable, and his pass to North for the try was spot on. But, he doesn't challenge defences (is that him or the team tactics?) and Liam does at least keep defenders honest. I'd happily swap the 2 anyway, but with Halfpenny's kicking not being the nailed oncert for 3 points that it was, he needs to up his game to keep his place, with the likes of Evans and Gilles, not to mention Amos, pushing for inclusion.

1/2p's pickup for North's first try was incredible - Webb, Scott, 1/2p and North combined brilliantly but 1/2p's part was the most difficult IMO. But he needs to keep getting involved, last week cannot be a one-off.

Sandydragon wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:
Agreed. He is still solid and reliable, and his pass to North for the try was spot on. But, he doesn't challenge defences (is that him or the team tactics?) and Liam does at least keep defenders honest. I'd happily swap the 2 anyway, but with Halfpenny's kicking not being the nailed oncert for 3 points that it was, he needs to up his game to keep his place, with the likes of Evans and Gilles, not to mention Amos, pushing for inclusion.

1/2p's pickup for North's first try was incredible - Webb, Scott, 1/2p and North combined brilliantly but 1/2p's part was the most difficult IMO. But he needs to keep getting involved, last week cannot be a one-off.

I was reading somewhere that the management value Halfpenny for his link play, whereas Liam tends to die with the ball too often. But if that is the case, why do we not see more of this. Im perfectly comfortable with Halfpennys personal try scoring record if he is setting tries up for others, but he rarely attacks the line in this way. With his kicking game not as reliable as it was and a few question marks over this aerial game at the moment, he isn't the shoe in he once was.

Given that he is also going to stay out of Wales when his contract is renewed, I wonder if one of the wild card slots will go his way or not?

Sandydragon wrote:Agreed, Roberts will probably lose his place. But with Faletau, Charteris, Liam Williams and Halfpenny fighting over 3 spots (is there anyone else who Galtand's law applies to who is in the frame?), someone is going to miss out and Id be stunned if it were Faletau. Id be surprised if Charteris were overlooked too as we don't have that many resources at lock up to the standard.

Ross. S wrote:Talking about dropping inexperienced fly halfs into depleted teams, whats going on with Patchel?

joshfishkins wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:Agreed, Roberts will probably lose his place. But with Faletau, Charteris, Liam Williams and Halfpenny fighting over 3 spots (is there anyone else who Galtand's law applies to who is in the frame?), someone is going to miss out and Id be stunned if it were Faletau. Id be surprised if Charteris were overlooked too as we don't have that many resources at lock up to the standard.

Is North exempt? What about Moriaty? I get confused with this stupid law.

morepork wrote:Someone on here commented that Halfpenny has not scored an international try for four years. That is a bit of a worry for an outside back. I'm not sure Gatland et.al. have any planned moves or game plans that involve the fullback in anything other than kicking. It's turned a smart talented footballer into a total robot.

joshfishkins wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:Agreed, Roberts will probably lose his place. But with Faletau, Charteris, Liam Williams and Halfpenny fighting over 3 spots (is there anyone else who Galtand's law applies to who is in the frame?), someone is going to miss out and Id be stunned if it were Faletau. Id be surprised if Charteris were overlooked too as we don't have that many resources at lock up to the standard.

Is North exempt? What about Moriaty? I get confused with this stupid law.

ALunpg wrote:

joshfishkins wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:Agreed, Roberts will probably lose his place. But with Faletau, Charteris, Liam Williams and Halfpenny fighting over 3 spots (is there anyone else who Galtand's law applies to who is in the frame?), someone is going to miss out and Id be stunned if it were Faletau. Id be surprised if Charteris were overlooked too as we don't have that many resources at lock up to the standard.

Is North exempt? What about Moriaty? I get confused with this stupid law.

Presently my understanding is Moriarty , Charteris, Tomas Francis , Thomas Young and Owain Williams are exempt as none have been offered Welsh region contracts .
Falateu , Liam , Halfpenny, North and Roberts will all come under the rule..but my understanding is the number of wildcards is 4 for 2017/18 season, so possibly Roberts will miss out his contract is until end 2018 season

ALunpg wrote:

joshfishkins wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:Agreed, Roberts will probably lose his place. But with Faletau, Charteris, Liam Williams and Halfpenny fighting over 3 spots (is there anyone else who Galtand's law applies to who is in the frame?), someone is going to miss out and Id be stunned if it were Faletau. Id be surprised if Charteris were overlooked too as we don't have that many resources at lock up to the standard.

Is North exempt? What about Moriaty? I get confused with this stupid law.

Presently my understanding is Moriarty , Charteris, Tomas Francis , Thomas Young and Owain Williams are exempt as none have been offered Welsh region contracts .
Falateu , Liam , Halfpenny, North and Roberts will all come under the rule..but my understanding is the number of wildcards is 4 for 2017/18 season, so possibly Roberts will miss out his contract is until end 2018 season