Explosion reported in Mancester

[Lord Lucan]

You can trace all this back to Blair, he took us into Iraq and Afghanistan, when we should have stayed well out of it. Cameron got involved in taking out Gadaffi and got us involved in Syria, more blunders. Saddam, Gadaffi and Assad knew how to deal with their own people, we don't, its as simple as that, we have stirred up a hornets nest and are now paying the price, this is just the tip of the iceberg, there will be much more to come, its impossible to stop this when you have a fifth column entrenched in our society. Draconian methods will be needed to combat this, and I doubt this lilly livered politically correct group of politicians we have now have the stomach for such a fight.
We are a legitimate target for these islamic nutcases, in their eyes we drop bombs on their people so they blow us up.

I'm fed up of hearing May tell us what has happened, I want to know what she plans to do about it. We can start with the 800 odd arseholes with British passports who went out to Syria to join the Jihad, strip them of their citizenship, if they try coming back in, get as much intel out of them as possible, with the use of waterboarding, the rack, whatever it takes, then give them one in the back of the head, and dump them on a rubbish tip, they won't be missed.

[morepork]

That orange buffoon is unqualified to comment on this issue. The children of Yemen will no doubt be delighted at his brokering of a "great deal" made with the Saudis to provide billions in armaments with which to scorch the earth.

"losers". "they would think monsters a great term". Stay classy. Perhaps it would be better if he stuck to reading the prepared bits with his finger rather than attempt to inject reality TV vernacular.

You fucking prick, after an attack like this all you can do is have a go at Trump, he is trying to stop this happening in America, with his temporary travel ban on refugees and travellers from certain muslim countries, but the likes of you are screaming from the rooftops to stop him doing that.
That mad bastard who killed those kids in Manchester was a son of refugees, there's the thanks we get for taking these people in, housing them, putting them to the front of the council housing queue, feeding them and giving them welfare.

Trump doesn't know shit. All that bluster was for stupid white to vote for him. Him and his iodit family members piping up with poorly thought out colloquial nonsense is not a positive contribution from a head of state. You, sir, are the fucking prick, for using whatever context possible to promote your whites-first world view.

[SerjeantWildgoose]

Saddam, Gadaffi and Assad knew how to deal with their own people, we don't, its as simple as that ...

ISIL/ISIS/IS/AQIM/Daesh or whatever you want to call them spring from those who used to prop up Saddam and Gadaffi - get to know your enemy or shut the fuck up and let those of us who have had to do so get on with it.

... get as much intel out of them as possible, with the use of waterboarding, the rack, whatever it takes, then give them one in the back of the head, and dump them on a rubbish tip, they won't be missed.

I wondered yesterday, how long it would take before someone on this thread matched the depths of depravity of those who commit these vile attacks. I had no real doubts who would win the race. Torture in any form has been completely discredited as a technique for extracting reliable information and I'm sure you know this, so clearly it is a gut-response for violent revenge - and I get that. Anyone who is not moved to the point of wanting to exact biblical retribution would not be human. But what sets us apart from these people is our ability in the face of such miserable pressure, to temper the urge to lash out with the same indiscriminate violence that we find so repugnant.

[Sandydragon]

Armed troops being deployed to key sites in order to free up armed police. Threat level now critical.

Potential for this to be part of a wider terror cell , do sadly the possibility of further atrocities is very real.

[Sandydragon]

Saddam, Gadaffi and Assad knew how to deal with their own people, we don't, its as simple as that ...

ISIL/ISIS/IS/AQIM/Daesh or whatever you want to call them spring from those who used to prop up Saddam and Gadaffi - get to know your enemy or shut the fuck up and let those of us who have had to do so get on with it.

... get as much intel out of them as possible, with the use of waterboarding, the rack, whatever it takes, then give them one in the back of the head, and dump them on a rubbish tip, they won't be missed.

I wondered yesterday, how long it would take before someone on this thread matched the depths of depravity of those who commit these vile attacks. I had no real doubts who would win the race. Torture in any form has been completely discredited as a technique for extracting reliable information and I'm sure you know this, so clearly it is a gut-response for violent revenge - and I get that. Anyone who is not moved to the point of wanting to exact biblical retribution would not be human. But what sets us apart from these people is our ability in the face of such miserable pressure, to temper the urge to lash out with the same indiscriminate violence that we find so repugnant.

Spot on.

[Big D]

I can't imagine the anguish those parents are going through just now. Horrible.

The reach of these events span the British Isles and beyond, I live in Fife in Scotland and there was 2 families from my town and 1 of those from my street at the concert. The Dad was in the car waiting on his wife and 5 and 8 year olds coming out, that must have been horrendous. Thankfully they are ok.

I was checking in with a friend in Manchester and her husband who is a doctor was on duty on Monday night, she said he was devastated when he came home by what they saw and had to deal with. I hope they are also given the support they need too.

[Stones of granite]

I can't imagine the anguish those parents are going through just now. Horrible.

The reach of these events span the British Isles and beyond, I live in Fife in Scotland and there was 2 families from my town and 1 of those from my street at the concert. The Dad was in the car waiting on his wife and 5 and 8 year olds coming out, that must have been horrendous. Thankfully they are ok.

I was checking in with a friend in Manchester and her husband who is a doctor was on duty on Monday night, she said he was devastated when he came home by what they saw and had to deal with. I hope they are also given the support they need too.

I've heard of a few from Kinross that there were too. Thankfully unharmed.

[Which Tyler]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 52511.html

Manchester Attack: Home Secretary Amber Rudd condemns US for leaks of shared British intelligence

Confidential details appeared in the US media apparently leaked by US intelligence

Dear the USA - if you want your allies to continue sharing confidential information with you - please still stop leaking to the press / foreign diplomats.
Sincerely
the UK / Israel (/Jordan?)

[Which Tyler]

Absolutely heartbreaking.

It would be helpful at this point for the peaceful muslim community to publicly publicly PUBLICLY denounce these actions by the radical fringe. It would help more people understand that muslims arent the boogieman. The longer they sit quietly, the more people are going to lump them all together as evil.

They do, regularly - it just doesn't garner many headlines, because OR COURSE every right thinking human being condemns this sort of action.
Just from my facebook feed at the moment...

[Tre]

Saddam, Gadaffi and Assad knew how to deal with their own people, we don't, its as simple as that ...

ISIL/ISIS/IS/AQIM/Daesh or whatever you want to call them spring from those who used to prop up Saddam and Gadaffi - get to know your enemy or shut the fuck up and let those of us who have had to do so get on with it.

... get as much intel out of them as possible, with the use of waterboarding, the rack, whatever it takes, then give them one in the back of the head, and dump them on a rubbish tip, they won't be missed.

I wondered yesterday, how long it would take before someone on this thread matched the depths of depravity of those who commit these vile attacks. I had no real doubts who would win the race. Torture in any form has been completely discredited as a technique for extracting reliable information and I'm sure you know this, so clearly it is a gut-response for violent revenge - and I get that. Anyone who is not moved to the point of wanting to exact biblical retribution would not be human. But what sets us apart from these people is our ability in the face of such miserable pressure, to temper the urge to lash out with the same indiscriminate violence that we find so repugnant.

This is a good post.

Did someone torture you into making it serj?

[Stones of granite]

Saddam, Gadaffi and Assad knew how to deal with their own people, we don't, its as simple as that ...

ISIL/ISIS/IS/AQIM/Daesh or whatever you want to call them spring from those who used to prop up Saddam and Gadaffi - get to know your enemy or shut the fuck up and let those of us who have had to do so get on with it.

... get as much intel out of them as possible, with the use of waterboarding, the rack, whatever it takes, then give them one in the back of the head, and dump them on a rubbish tip, they won't be missed.

I wondered yesterday, how long it would take before someone on this thread matched the depths of depravity of those who commit these vile attacks. I had no real doubts who would win the race. Torture in any form has been completely discredited as a technique for extracting reliable information and I'm sure you know this, so clearly it is a gut-response for violent revenge - and I get that. Anyone who is not moved to the point of wanting to exact biblical retribution would not be human. But what sets us apart from these people is our ability in the face of such miserable pressure, to temper the urge to lash out with the same indiscriminate violence that we find so repugnant.

This is a good post.

Did someone torture you into making it serj?

He assembled it during a lariam induced nightmare.

[Vengeful Glutton]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05 ... de-bomber/

"Abedi went to school locally and then on to Salford University in 2014 where he studied business management before dropping out. His trips to Libya, where it is thought his parents returned in 2011 following Gaddafi’s overthrow, are now subject to scrutiny including links to jihadists.

A group of Gaddafi dissidents, who were members of the outlawed Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), lived within close proximity to Abedi in Whalley Range.

Among them was Abd al-Baset Azzouz, a father-of-four from Manchester, who left Britain to run a terrorist network in Libya overseen by Ayman al-Zawahiri, Osama bin Laden’s successor as leader of al-Qaeda.

Azzouz, 48, an expert bomb-maker, was accused of running an al-Qaeda network in eastern Libya. The Telegraph reported in 2014 that Azzouz had 200 to 300 militants under his control and was an expert in bomb-making."

Interesting article:

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.ie/2017/0 ... rists.html

"The LIFG seeks to replace the current Libyan regime with a hard-line Islamic state. The group is also part of the wider global Islamist extremist movement, as inspired by Al Qa’ida. The group has mounted several operations inside Libya, including a 1996 attempt to assassinate Mu’ammar Qadhafi"

That the US and UK are using terrorists to expedite their respective geopolitical objectives should come as no surprise - particularly in regards to LIFG - since the organization itself branched out of Washington's mercenary fighters used against the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 1980s.

What is surprising is that the Western public continues to react emotionally to each terrorist attack individually rather than rationally, seeing the much larger picture and pattern. And until the Western public sees that bigger picture and pattern, fear, injustice, murder, and mayhem will continue to dominate their lives and futures.

Personally, I think that the deep schisms between Islam and the Secular west (it's no longer Christian), can be traced back to the Seppos funding the Mujahideen, Saudi wahhabism, and Adbullah Yusuf Azzam's fatwa. Some have pointed out that it goes back even further to the abolition of the Ottoman sultanate, and the partition of muslim lands by the allies:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2% ... _Agreement

Interestingly, the incredible expansion of Islam after the death of the prophet was accompanied by tolerance for Ahl Al Kitab. Radical Islam on the other hand sees secularism (diseased culture), atheism (anti-thesis of Sharia), Christianity (The Crusaders) and Judaism (the Eternal Schemer) as the four heads of the monster, which must by fought and destroyed.

Where's it all going to end? Peace and reconciliation? A new world order based on Sharia? Or will humanity be slowly replaced by strong AI (my money's on this happening).

Or perhaps Beaumount's comet will pay us a visit? The earth might rejoice at humanity's obliteration?

[Which Tyler]

NB: I don't get the Times, nor can I look through its paywall; but...

1 hour ago, SeanF said:
I was reading in the Times today that some people have been posting the names of people at the Concert on social media, as dead or injured, when in fact they were unscathed. The sheer sickness of such "humour" is hard to credit.

It's even worse than that i'm afraid. Several people have noted that pictures of people supposedly missing in the attack are actually of past murder victims or of people totally unrelated to the situation.

The BBC has an article that shows that at least 2 murder victims, a Mexican journalist and a child model have all had their photos dropped into this by some sick bastards.

It's bad enough dealing with something like a terrorist attack is the world so far up it's on arse now that people get a kick out of creating fake missing persons for such events?!?!? I have no words.... :stunned:

[Vengeful Glutton]

I wondered yesterday, how long it would take before someone on this thread matched the depths of depravity of those who commit these vile attacks. I had no real doubts who would win the race. Torture in any form has been completely discredited as a technique for extracting reliable information and I'm sure you know this, so clearly it is a gut-response for violent revenge - and I get that. Anyone who is not moved to the point of wanting to exact biblical retribution would not be human. But what sets us apart from these people is our ability in the face of such miserable pressure, to temper the urge to lash out with the same indiscriminate violence that we find so repugnant.

Great post alright, but a tad naive, perhaps?

EITs are still used by American and British intelligence operatives, so it clearly has some benefits.

In fact western MICs have developed sophisticated instruments of torture, stamped them as "proven to work", and sold them to various despots 'round the globe.

[Sandydragon]

I wondered yesterday, how long it would take before someone on this thread matched the depths of depravity of those who commit these vile attacks. I had no real doubts who would win the race. Torture in any form has been completely discredited as a technique for extracting reliable information and I'm sure you know this, so clearly it is a gut-response for violent revenge - and I get that. Anyone who is not moved to the point of wanting to exact biblical retribution would not be human. But what sets us apart from these people is our ability in the face of such miserable pressure, to temper the urge to lash out with the same indiscriminate violence that we find so repugnant.

Great post alright, but a tad naive, perhaps?

EITs are still used by American and British intelligence operatives, so it clearly has some benefits.

In fact western MICs have developed sophisticated instruments of torture, stamped them as "proven to work", and sold them to various despots 'round the globe.

Lets not confuse tactical questioning with torture. Physical torture, waterboarding for example, is not a proven method. The means by which Taleban fighters were 'de-radicalised' in Afghanistan were directed to a long term mental argument at overcoming the core arguments of their belief system. Not torture by any means but neither is it in line with a police led PACE interview. British security agents using information obtained by physical torture has been alleged; that speaks more of a desperation for information rather than any real value attached to the final product.

[Stones of granite]

I wondered yesterday, how long it would take before someone on this thread matched the depths of depravity of those who commit these vile attacks. I had no real doubts who would win the race. Torture in any form has been completely discredited as a technique for extracting reliable information and I'm sure you know this, so clearly it is a gut-response for violent revenge - and I get that. Anyone who is not moved to the point of wanting to exact biblical retribution would not be human. But what sets us apart from these people is our ability in the face of such miserable pressure, to temper the urge to lash out with the same indiscriminate violence that we find so repugnant.

Great post alright, but a tad naive, perhaps?

EITs are still used by American and British intelligence operatives, so it clearly has some benefits.

In fact western MICs have developed sophisticated instruments of torture, stamped them as "proven to work", and sold them to various despots 'round the globe.

How do you know this, and what are they?

[Lord Lucan]

That orange buffoon is unqualified to comment on this issue. The children of Yemen will no doubt be delighted at his brokering of a "great deal" made with the Saudis to provide billions in armaments with which to scorch the earth.

"losers". "they would think monsters a great term". Stay classy. Perhaps it would be better if he stuck to reading the prepared bits with his finger rather than attempt to inject reality TV vernacular.

You fucking prick, after an attack like this all you can do is have a go at Trump, he is trying to stop this happening in America, with his temporary travel ban on refugees and travellers from certain muslim countries, but the likes of you are screaming from the rooftops to stop him doing that.
That mad bastard who killed those kids in Manchester was a son of refugees, there's the thanks we get for taking these people in, housing them, putting them to the front of the council housing queue, feeding them and giving them welfare.

Trump doesn't know shit. All that bluster was for stupid white to vote for him. Him and his iodit family members piping up with poorly thought out colloquial nonsense is not a positive contribution from a head of state. You, sir, are the fucking prick, for using whatever context possible to promote your whites-first world view.

Get back to the trump thread you bellend, this thread is for those concerned about our people being torn apart by bombs, you can continue you your anti Trump, white supremacist crusade on the other thread.

[Lord Lucan]

Saddam, Gadaffi and Assad knew how to deal with their own people, we don't, its as simple as that ...

ISIL/ISIS/IS/AQIM/Daesh or whatever you want to call them spring from those who used to prop up Saddam and Gadaffi - get to know your enemy or shut the fuck up and let those of us who have had to do so get on with it.

... get as much intel out of them as possible, with the use of waterboarding, the rack, whatever it takes, then give them one in the back of the head, and dump them on a rubbish tip, they won't be missed.

I wondered yesterday, how long it would take before someone on this thread matched the depths of depravity of those who commit these vile attacks. I had no real doubts who would win the race. Torture in any form has been completely discredited as a technique for extracting reliable information and I'm sure you know this, so clearly it is a gut-response for violent revenge - and I get that. Anyone who is not moved to the point of wanting to exact biblical retribution would not be human. But what sets us apart from these people is our ability in the face of such miserable pressure, to temper the urge to lash out with the same indiscriminate violence that we find so repugnant.

I know where they came from chap, I thought the point I was making was obvious, I see I shall have to explain for your benefit.
If Saddam etc, were still in power the aforementioned terror groups would not exist, as they would be living under the iron fist of said dictators.
Bush, Blair Cameron etc, blew the lid off all that, now we have to deal with the aftermath, whereas if we'd left well alone the middle east and those living there would be under the control by those who know how to control their own people.

Hope this helps.

I see you are taking the moral high ground in regards to dealing with those hell bent on destroying us, so how would you deal with it?

[morepork]

You fucking prick, after an attack like this all you can do is have a go at Trump, he is trying to stop this happening in America, with his temporary travel ban on refugees and travellers from certain muslim countries, but the likes of you are screaming from the rooftops to stop him doing that.
That mad bastard who killed those kids in Manchester was a son of refugees, there's the thanks we get for taking these people in, housing them, putting them to the front of the council housing queue, feeding them and giving them welfare.

Trump doesn't know shit. All that bluster was for stupid white to vote for him. Him and his iodit family members piping up with poorly thought out colloquial nonsense is not a positive contribution from a head of state. You, sir, are the fucking prick, for using whatever context possible to promote your whites-first world view.

Get back to the trump thread you bellend, this thread is for those concerned about our people being torn apart by bombs, you can continue you your anti Trump, white supremacist crusade on the other thread.

'

Ha!

[Vengeful Glutton]

Lets not confuse tactical questioning with torture. Physical torture, waterboarding for example, is not a proven method. The means by which Taleban fighters were 'de-radicalised' in Afghanistan were directed to a long term mental argument at overcoming the core arguments of their belief system. Not torture by any means but neither is it in line with a police led PACE interview. British security agents using information obtained by physical torture has been alleged; that speaks more of a desperation for information rather than any real value attached to the final product.

Some Taliban fighters were "de-radicalised" by largesse in the form of cash payments.

Torture isn't always a reliable means of extracting information from hostiles.

Lets not pretend that the use of torture by Military and State intelligence agencies has stopped because it's been condemned and discredited. That's simply untrue. Sometimes it does work. That's why it remains in the State's bag of dirty tricks.

Waterboarding has been around in various guises since the year dot. It's use on Mme Brinvilliers is probably a more notable example of one variation of its use by the state apparatus.

Ask yourself this question:

Why is it still used by the authorities?

It's not down to wanton cruelty.

As the Gestapo used to say, the suspect will talk.

[kk67]

The bbc 'Security Expert' Frank Gardener has an interesting revisioning of the history of recent conflict in the middle east.
It's hard not to conclude that when he calls himself a 'security expert' that means he spends a lot of time hanging out with arms dealers and listening to their bullshit justifications for selling their wares. The man is vile.

[morepork]

VG....suspect is the operative term, surely. If you conduct interrogation under the assumption that a suspect "knows" something, then that logic works. However, the assumption can certainly be incorrect. What use torture then?

[OptimisticJock]

Saddam, Gadaffi and Assad knew how to deal with their own people, we don't, its as simple as that ...

ISIL/ISIS/IS/AQIM/Daesh or whatever you want to call them spring from those who used to prop up Saddam and Gadaffi - get to know your enemy or shut the fuck up and let those of us who have had to do so get on with it.

... get as much intel out of them as possible, with the use of waterboarding, the rack, whatever it takes, then give them one in the back of the head, and dump them on a rubbish tip, they won't be missed.

I wondered yesterday, how long it would take before someone on this thread matched the depths of depravity of those who commit these vile attacks. I had no real doubts who would win the race. Torture in any form has been completely discredited as a technique for extracting reliable information and I'm sure you know this, so clearly it is a gut-response for violent revenge - and I get that. Anyone who is not moved to the point of wanting to exact biblical retribution would not be human. But what sets us apart from these people is our ability in the face of such miserable pressure, to temper the urge to lash out with the same indiscriminate violence that we find so repugnant.

So... does that mean no more MOABs?

[Mellsblue]

NB: I don't get the Times, nor can I look through its paywall; but...

1 hour ago, SeanF said:
I was reading in the Times today that some people have been posting the names of people at the Concert on social media, as dead or injured, when in fact they were unscathed. The sheer sickness of such "humour" is hard to credit.

It's even worse than that i'm afraid. Several people have noted that pictures of people supposedly missing in the attack are actually of past murder victims or of people totally unrelated to the situation.

The BBC has an article that shows that at least 2 murder victims, a Mexican journalist and a child model have all had their photos dropped into this by some sick bastards.

It's bad enough dealing with something like a terrorist attack is the world so far up it's on arse now that people get a kick out of creating fake missing persons for such events?!?!? I have no words.... :stunned:

Article in full:

Online backlash as trolls use fake news and ‘missing’ posts to spread confusion after Manchester attack

Mark Bridge, Technology Correspondent
May 24 2017, 12:00am, The Times


Internet trolls flooded social media with false messages about missing people and fake news in the aftermath of the Manchester Arena attack.

Many of the “missing” posts were intended to gain tens of thousands of likes and shares and used images of celebrities or people chosen at random who the posters claimed were lost relatives.

They included a 12-year-old girl who was safe at school in Australia and a boy whose picture was lifted from an old article about Down’s syndrome.

One montage supposedly showing children unaccounted for after the Ariana Grande concert included photographs of YouTube celebrities based in America as well as those genuinely missing. This image was copied widely on Facebook and Twitter and by some news outlets.

Many people share or retweet all missing person alerts they see because they want to help, so these messages can spread rapidly.


Other false posts calculated to gain an audience included pictures purporting to show the aftermath of yesterday’s attack that actually showed a training exercise several years ago. Others showed the floor of the Bataclan theatre in Paris strewn with bodies after the attack in November 2015.

Some trolls tweeted a photograph of Ariana Grande appearing battered and bruised, which they claimed showed the 23-year-old singer after the bombing. In fact, it was taken two years ago and showed her in make-up on the set of a TV show. Grande was not injured.

Fake news describing other attacks, or gunmen on the loose, included a Facebook post urging: “Do not come Oldham Hospital [sic], I’m currently locked inside. Man outside with gun.”

This story was incorrect, although the person who posted it said it was an honest mistake. The post was shared 13,000 times and picked up, as true, by tabloid newspapers.

Another story that was widely circulated claimed that 50 or 60 unaccompanied children were being cared for at a Manchester Holiday Inn. The chain’s owners said this was not true, although some victims of the bombing had gone to the hotel for help. They urged people who were worried about missing loved ones to stop ringing the premises and contact the police.

Conspiracy theorists also put videos on YouTube, the video-sharing platform owned by Google, claiming that the bombing was a hoax by our “terrorist government”. One of those videos was watched 38,000 times. Another with the title “Manchester fake terror hoax 2017 Girl Smiling, no actual bomb” had 22,500 views. The caption claimed that the attack was staged by the “children of freemasons”.

Many writers of fake stories faced a backlash as people accused them of wasting police time and causing confusion and distress. One Twitter user replied to the “missing” tweet that used the stolen photograph of the little boy: “Please don’t make this sh** up. some people are ACTUALLY missing, and its absolutely terrifying. just stop.”

The extent of fake news after the attack will add to pressure on internet companies to do more to tackle the problem and to take their responsibilities as publishers seriously. Facebook has made it easier to report fake stories for review by independent fact-checkers, but false stories are not removed from the site, but marked as disputed and ranked further down news feeds.

The companies yesterday stressed the ways in which they were able to help people after the attacks. Twitter said that it had seen “incredible” use of the service to offer shelter and support to others. It added that people were able to follow the Greater Manchester police Twitter account for authenticated real-time updates and guidance.

Facebook stressed that it had activated its “safety check” feature, which allows people to tell friends and family that they are safe after a disaster. The feature went live at 11.57pm, almost an hour and a half after the bomb was detonated. When the feature is switched on, Facebook users who live in an area or spend a lot of time there are sent a notification asking if they want to “check in” as safe. There is also a dedicated page for the incident where others can prompt any friends or family they are worried about to check in.

A “community help” feature introduced in February enables people to offer assistance. Yesterday hundreds of people were offering meals, lifts or a room to those still stranded.

[kk67]

Jesus, people are weird.
Do some get paid for this sort of generating traffic or is it all just desperate, lonely kids saying 'look at me'..?.Or both.