How not to win a Lions series: Discord & disarray, 12 years on

[morepork]

Mate, I for one am thrilled with the long standing tradition of Benny Hill English coaches. It's probably the ,main thing keeping you off our perch. I think that it is fantastic that a well-funded competing 21st century professional organisation is firmly entrenched in a time loop.

[Mikey Brown]

No, that's just him. The losses in 2004 were because of the RFU not supporting him well enough, his failed venture at Southampton was because he didn't get sufficient buy-in from the players, the Lions was because... well, see that article. Self-confidence? 10/10. Self-awareness and ability to learn from his mistakes? 1/10 and that's being generous.

He has achieved entelechy as a pundit sniping from the sidelines and demanding gonzo selections like Andy Saull and Cipriani at 12. There's two very good reasons why he's never returned to coaching: clubs and unions have realised that the RWC win was probably more to do with an outstanding group of players that had innate natural leadership (and could ignore some of the wackier ideas) and secondly, I think he's aware that if he tries to interact with real rugby again it will damage his mystique and aura because it would be a f*cking disaster.

Puja

How the fuck did he get the England gig in the first place?

If memory serves, there were literally no other options. The RFU had been toying with getting rid of Jack Rowell for a while and had fannied about with committees and leaks to the press and calling him in for meetings and openly discussing alternatives to him, so they were understandably taken aback when Rowell decided he'd had enough and announced his retirement with a very loud unspoken "Fuck you!" All the names in the sport who'd been linked with the job made a beeline in the other direction as none of them wanted to work with the 57 old farts, and the only semi-legitimate option was Woodward, who of course *believed* in himself, despite only having had two jobs as London Irish manager and then as Bath assistant coach.

He did have some good moments and was what we needed in a lot of ways in terms of shaking things up and breaking the mould, as the entire English rugby structure was amateur, blazer run, and resistant to change. We did need a rock thrown in the lake and he did achieve a lot of good things, but there's no doubt that he was tempered by having good assistants and leadership like Johnson, Leonard, Back, Hill, Dallaglio, Dawson, Wilkinson, etc who could rein him in when the mad outweighed the genius.

Puja

So he was English rugbys Donald Turnip?

[Mikey Brown]

Hmm. Not sure whether to correct that post or not.

[morepork]

You winner.

[kk67]

The article in yesterdays Fail was a lot more self-deprecating. He claimed in that article that a lot of the players have stayed in contact with Alistair Campbell. One assumes they stayed in contact with him for similar reasons that so many celebrities stayed in contact with Max Clifford or commercial organisations keep retaining Carter-Fuck.

[Mr Mwenda]

I also think that he's aware that 'mad Woodward' makes him an awful lot if easy money. I remember fondly the Woodward-Jones pre match competitions to see who could say the most ridiculous thing. I guess it says something about us sports fans that we allow people like Woodward to keep getting their paycheque for the same old tired acts.

[Buggaluggs]

Clive was a lucky jockey who got to ride a great horse for a while

[WaspInWales]

Is Woodentop related to Trump by any chance?

Delusions of grandeur, narcissism, nepotism - does that apply to favourite players???

I reckon he'd be a good politician.

[kk67]

Is Woodentop related to Trump by any chance?

Delusions of grandeur, narcissism, nepotism - does that apply to favourite players???

I reckon he'd be a good politician.

Every club has a Clive somewhere in the club structure.