RugbyRebels

Pretty unnecessary from Toner.

What the hell has happened to Kruis? Missing tackles, dropping passes, he's a shadow of the player he was this time last year.

Well Kearney's never going to wrap an arm, so it's a yellow. He can't control that Williams has slipped (though players in the Prem have had 4 week bans for less) but it's a shoulder charge so a minimum yellow. I dont see what Garces is saying; if it's a penalty it has to be a yellow.

Lack of accuracy from Sarries. So many mistakes

Peej wrote:Well Kearney's never going to wrap an arm, so it's a yellow. He can't control that Williams has slipped (though players in the Prem have had 4 week bans for less) but it's a shoulder charge so a minimum yellow. I dont see what Garces is saying; if it's a penalty it has to be a yellow.

Because it’s beyond Kearney’s control. He can’t do anything else, other than self-combust. Sensible reffing, if you ask me. As it was when Lowe hit Goode in the air after Burger (who is rank average these days) knocked him off balance.

Mellsblue wrote:

Peej wrote:Well Kearney's never going to wrap an arm, so it's a yellow. He can't control that Williams has slipped (though players in the Prem have had 4 week bans for less) but it's a shoulder charge so a minimum yellow. I dont see what Garces is saying; if it's a penalty it has to be a yellow.

Because it’s beyond Kearney’s control. He can’t do anything else, other than self-combust. Sensible reffing, if you ask me. As it was when Lowe hit Goode in the air after Burger (who is rank average these days) knocked him off balance.

Which is why it wouldn't be any more than a yellow. But his arms are by his side and he's leading with the shoulder, so even if Williams doesn't slip it's a shoulder charge and a yellow card

Peej wrote:Well Kearney's never going to wrap an arm, so it's a yellow. He can't control that Williams has slipped (though players in the Prem have had 4 week bans for less) but it's a shoulder charge so a minimum yellow. I dont see what Garces is saying; if it's a penalty it has to be a yellow.

Williams clearly lost his footing and fell into Kearney's belly button. Kearney had his arms by his side. If the ref judges it as a slip (which he stated) how can he then award a penalty kick, never mind a yellow card. This was an important decision since Sarries mauled over for a try from the following lineout. Could have been a gamechanger.

Peej wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Peej wrote:Well Kearney's never going to wrap an arm, so it's a yellow. He can't control that Williams has slipped (though players in the Prem have had 4 week bans for less) but it's a shoulder charge so a minimum yellow. I dont see what Garces is saying; if it's a penalty it has to be a yellow.

Because it’s beyond Kearney’s control. He can’t do anything else, other than self-combust. Sensible reffing, if you ask me. As it was when Lowe hit Goode in the air after Burger (who is rank average these days) knocked him off balance.

Which is why it wouldn't be any more than a yellow. But his arms are by his side and he's leading with the shoulder, so even if Williams doesn't slip it's a shoulder charge and a yellow card

He’s in that position as Williams stumbles and comes at him quicker and at a different height, and he’s had no time to react. It’s a penalty but wholly unintentional and unavoidable. For me that’s a pen only.

Well respectfully I disagree. He knows Williams can step inside him and get to the line so he's going for brute force stopping power and swinging the shoulder in. He's already committed. Williams slips in the act of stepping which is why there's contact with the head - which I agree was completely unavoidable.

Horrible 3rd quarter did for Saracens. They will be very disappointed to concede the tries the way they did, and to make uncharacteristic mistakes. They are not at their best.
Farrell probably not fit, Kruis has lost his edge completely and Burger is coasting in his retirement. Does Bosch offer anything at all as an attacker? They need to refresh the squad for next season.
On the plus side Mako was great, Isiekwe impressive. Spencer and Lozowski improved things from the bench.

Did Loz play 10 when he came on or was he at 12?

Peej wrote:Did Loz play 10 when he came on or was he at 12?

I thought 13. Replaced Bosch and seemed to be stationed outside Barritt most of the time. Good player, I’d like him to get a run for Eng at 12.

Sarries not quite at their best, and of course Billy (and Rhodes) make a difference, but I feel like Sarries have developed a game plan over the years to deal with the Pre-eminent big French teams. They’ll have to adapt again to take on the likes of Leinster/Scarlets etc.

They’ll need to add a bit more pace and athleticism in midfield and a much more varied attacking kicking game i’d say.

16th man wrote:Pretty unnecessary from Toner.

What the hell has happened to Kruis? Missing tackles, dropping passes, he's a shadow of the player he was this time last year.

He's definitely 'Wooden Hands' now. I don't see him as better than 3rd choice lock at Saracens and about 7th for England. Sad.

Mellsblue wrote:

p/d wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:If you compared how Garces has reffed the breakdown in this match and Owens reffed the breakdown in Scotland v England you’d think they were playing under different laws.

On behalf of KK67.....FECK OFF!!!

Nothing on BOD’s scarf and coat but you comment on this?!?!?

He has a Biggles fetish. Did you see the boots?

Oakboy wrote:

16th man wrote:Pretty unnecessary from Toner.

What the hell has happened to Kruis? Missing tackles, dropping passes, he's a shadow of the player he was this time last year.

He's definitely 'Wooden Hands' now. I don't see him as better than 3rd choice lock at Saracens and about 7th for England. Sad.

7th? Who is 1 - 6?

Peej wrote:Well respectfully I disagree. He knows Williams can step inside him and get to the line so he's going for brute force stopping power and swinging the shoulder in. He's already committed. Williams slips in the act of stepping which is why there's contact with the head - which I agree was completely unavoidable.

I immediately said 'yellow card' in real time and, based on the season's precedents, saw no reason to change my mind. Avoidable shoulder to head, IMO. All sorts of excuses but none convincing.

Mellsblue wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

16th man wrote:Pretty unnecessary from Toner.

What the hell has happened to Kruis? Missing tackles, dropping passes, he's a shadow of the player he was this time last year.

He's definitely 'Wooden Hands' now. I don't see him as better than 3rd choice lock at Saracens and about 7th for England. Sad.

7th? Who is 1 - 6?

Launchbury, Lawes, Itoje, Isiekwe, Ewels, Johnny thing at Exeter.

Oakboy wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Oakboy wrote:
He's definitely 'Wooden Hands' now. I don't see him as better than 3rd choice lock at Saracens and about 7th for England. Sad.

7th? Who is 1 - 6?

Launchbury, Lawes, Itoje, Isiekwe, Ewels, Johnny thing at Exeter.

I’d put him fourth with the proviso that Isiekwe will probably over take him in the next couple of seasons. I think Ewels is an inferior version of Kruis. Barring a astronomical improvement, if Jonny Hill ever plays for England I’ll move to my mother-in-law’s in France and start supporting Les Blues, and I find my mother-in-law possibly the most annoying person in the world.

Mellsblue wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: 7th? Who is 1 - 6?

Launchbury, Lawes, Itoje, Isiekwe, Ewels, Johnny thing at Exeter.

I’d put him fourth with the proviso that Isiekwe will probably over take him in the next couple of seasons. I think Ewels is an inferior version of Kruis. Barring a astronomical improvement, if Jonny Hill ever plays for England I’ll move to my mother-in-law’s in France and start supporting Les Blues, and I find my mother-in-law possibly the most annoying person in the world.

Sam Skinner is the one to watch at Exeter.

Timbo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Oakboy wrote:
Launchbury, Lawes, Itoje, Isiekwe, Ewels, Johnny thing at Exeter.

I’d put him fourth with the proviso that Isiekwe will probably over take him in the next couple of seasons. I think Ewels is an inferior version of Kruis. Barring a astronomical improvement, if Jonny Hill ever plays for England I’ll move to my mother-in-law’s in France and start supporting Les Blues, and I find my mother-in-law possibly the most annoying person in the world.

Sam Skinner is the one to watch at Exeter.

Agreed.

Just based on this weekend i'd have Green, Robinson and Slater ahead of Kruis. His form has fallen off a cliff.

Give him the summer off in the hope he comes back physically and mentally recharged.

Are people forgetting Attwood is still with Bath so can play for England.

He would 100% your for me.

Tigersman wrote:Are people forgetting Attwood is still with Bath so can play for England.

He would 100% your for me.

A dig at Stephen Jones on a Sunday. It was only a matter of time.

fivepointer wrote:Just based on this weekend i'd have Green, Robinson and Slater ahead of Kruis. His form has fallen off a cliff.

Give him the summer off in the hope he comes back physically and mentally recharged.

Yep and as Tigersman said, Attwood, who was good yesterday for Toulon.

Outside of this weekend, Skinner, Spencer and Rowlands are all worth a look.

I’m not sure where the intense dislike of Hill comes from. I think he’s quite good ... probably not a test player, but not really warranting the ire either.

Scrumhead wrote:

fivepointer wrote:Just based on this weekend i'd have Green, Robinson and Slater ahead of Kruis. His form has fallen off a cliff.

Give him the summer off in the hope he comes back physically and mentally recharged.

I’m not sure where the intense dislike of Hill comes from. I think he’s quite good ...

Isn’t that the point. He’s ‘quite good’ but he’s allegedly the sixth best EQ lock.