RugbyRebels

Does anybody want to think of the possibility that he’ll leave Launch behind and take Shields as sixth back row and lock cover?

Want to? No. but in the back of my mind it's a distinct possibility.

Exactly the same here. I wouldn’t rule it out as a possibility, but it definitely wouldn’t be my preference.

Why rule out a genuinely top class lock for a player who is an average back rower and no more than a stand-in at lock.

With Itoje and Kruis and Lawes and Launchbury, we have two combinations that have been proven to work well in the past. Why break that up for no good reason?

Why keep playing Hartley over George, why select Youngs over somebody on form, why try Nowell at 13, why give Cips a chance only to drop him after a match winning performance, why drop Ashton but then bring him back 18 months later after a ban and no match practice, why spend three years with 10. Ford 12. Farrell only to move on a year out from the World Cup...
I’m not advocating Shields over Launch just trying to prepare us all for the possibility.

Scrumhead wrote:Exactly the same here. I wouldn’t rule it out as a possibility, but it definitely wouldn’t be my preference.

Why rule out a genuinely top class lock for a player who is an average back rower and no more than a stand-in at lock.

With Itoje and Kruis and Lawes and Launchbury, we have two combinations that have been proven to work well in the past. Why break that up for no good reason?

It would be quite the turnaround from Eddie's previous obsession with locks playing all 8 positions. I really don't think Eddie rates Launch as highly as the rest of the planet so I could quite easily see him leaving him behind. Which would be a joke.

Mellsblue wrote:Why keep playing Hartley over George, why select Youngs over somebody on form, why try Nowell at 13, why give Cips a chance only to drop him after a match winning performance, why drop Ashton but then bring him back 18 months later after a ban and no match practice, why spend three years with 10. Ford 12. Farrell only to move on a year out from the World Cup...
I’m not advocating Shields over Launch just trying to prepare us all for the possibility.

Yeah, I get that. I just don’t even like talking about the possibility ...

Even if we win the World Cup, I think I’ll always associate the Eddie Jones years with frustratingly bizarre decisions.

A lot of similarities between Eddie and GoT...

Except EW likes GoT...

Does Launch no longer cover 6? And isn't Itoje already that extra option in there anyway?

I wouldn't say having players who cover more than one role is adding them in no reason, it's very important in a 31 man squad, but in the roles Shields covers we already look to have options. We could use someone akin to Healy in the backs, although one normally could

Digby wrote:Does Launch no longer cover 6? And isn't Itoje already that extra option in there anyway?

I wouldn't say having players who cover more than one role is adding them in no reason, it's very important in a 31 man squad, but in the roles Shields covers we already look to have options. We could use someone akin to Healy in the backs, although one normally could

Christ, Healey would be first choice 9 if he were around now, by a sizeable distance.

I'll be very upset when Robshaw is inevitably left out in favour of Shields and/or Hughes. Quite apart from him being a good player and the second best 6 in the country, I think he'd be the perfect choice for 5th back row in a RWC squad. He's a leader, he's experienced, he's got the respect of the playing group, but he's also not an ego that requires managing. He'd improve the atmosphere as well as more than holding up his end on the playing front.

Frankly, I think it was a mistake not taking him on the last Lions tour to captain the dirt trackers for that reason.

Puja

Shields will go to the RWC, set up a sweet deal with a Japanese club, then do the big fuckoffski post tournament. Sort of a more polite Sam Burgess.

Burgess was probably better for England than Shields has been so far ...

morepork wrote:Shields will go to the RWC, set up a sweet deal with a Japanese club, then do the big fuckoffski post tournament. Sort of a more polite Sam Burgess.

Too polite really. I think Te'o managed to become the highest paid club player in the world (per minute) in his stint.

Scrumhead wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Why keep playing Hartley over George, why select Youngs over somebody on form, why try Nowell at 13, why give Cips a chance only to drop him after a match winning performance, why drop Ashton but then bring him back 18 months later after a ban and no match practice, why spend three years with 10. Ford 12. Farrell only to move on a year out from the World Cup...
I’m not advocating Shields over Launch just trying to prepare us all for the possibility.

Yeah, I get that. I just don’t even like talking about the possibility ...

Even if we win the World Cup, I think I’ll always associate the Eddie Jones years with frustratingly bizarre decisions.

Ok, and yes.

Mikey Brown wrote: I think Te'o managed to become the highest paid club player in the world (per minute) in his stint.

Good chance you could include footballers in that and still be correct.

Banquo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:Wuss played Kev a lot at 8, so it's not just Exeter who've liked him there

p/d is also a big advocate so that will probably explain it.

indeed.

Indeedy

Also surprised Lozowski hasn’t got a mention. Has been pretty outstanding

Has he? I can’t really tell what’s going on with him any more. I thought he’d be making breaks all the time once he settled in at 13.

Mikey Brown wrote:Has he? I can’t really tell what’s going on with him any more. I thought he’d be making breaks all the time once he settled in at 13.

he's very hit and miss. Defence gets bigged up a lot, but he's not great there when Brad isn't playing. I think he'd be better off at 12.

Banquo wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:Has he? I can’t really tell what’s going on with him any more. I thought he’d be making breaks all the time once he settled in at 13.

he's very hit and miss. Defence gets bigged up a lot, but he's not great there when Brad isn't playing. I think he'd be better off at 12.

Fair enough. He’s very physical and makes some big shots, but just doesn’t seem to be in the right place a lot of the time. Reminds me of somebody.

12 seemed the obvious long-term bet to me too, but I’m sure I’d read from Saracens fans on here (or is it just convex?) that he didn’t slot in as well there and Tompkins was generally preferred.

Slightly harsh IMO.

I agree that his performances have been mixed, but I’d say there have been considerably more good ones than not. I’d also say his worst performances have been OK rather than actually bad.

He’s also been good in the big games - notably in the ECC final.

He’s not pushing as hard for an England spot as I might have thought, but he’s not too far off.

Scrumhead wrote:Slightly harsh IMO.

I agree that his performances have been mixed, but I’d say there have been considerably more good ones than not. I’d also say his worst performances have been OK rather than actually bad.

He’s also been good in the big games - notably in the ECC final.

He’s not pushing as hard for an England spot as I might have thought, but he’s not too far off.

what's harsh? That he's hit and miss? He's good when Brad is there helping him, not so much when not, in defence. Think I'm being kind rather than harsh; I think he has more talent than gets displayed.

You said ‘very hit and miss’. I said ‘slightly harsh’ as I thought the ‘very’ was overdoing it. I don’t think he’s that inconsistent.

I agree that he has more talent than he’s currently showing though.

Scrumhead wrote:You said ‘very hit and miss’. I said ‘slightly harsh’ as I thought the ‘very’ was overdoing it. I don’t think he’s that inconsistent.

I agree that he has more talent than he’s currently showing though.

tomato tomaato.... I guess I'm just disappointed that a gifted player hasn't really kicked on, though in fairness he has by and large held onto the 13 shirt since getting the opportunity.

Scrumhead wrote:You said ‘very hit and miss’. I said ‘slightly harsh’ as I thought the ‘very’ was overdoing it. I don’t think he’s that inconsistent.

I agree that he has more talent than he’s currently showing though.

The league is full of talented players who don't always show it. Consistency is the name of the game. A great player is usually one who plays consistently at the top, or close to the top, of his game, and never has an outright howler, even when he's a tad off form. That sort of reliability often develops with maturity. I think Lozowski has the basic goods with a balanced all-round game, and at 25, still has some headroom to mature and improve. Agree with those who think he looks more of a 12 than a 13. Plenty of players with loads of talent/promise never make it because of the selection philosophy of their club- or international coach.

Talking of disappointments what about lewington? I remember just before his move to sarries we were all tipping him to be scoring for fun and breaking into the england team.

Yeah - it hasn’t really clicked for him at Saracens.

When I think back to how he played at London Irish he had a lot more freedom to run from anywhere. I assume he’s still trying to find how he fits in to Saracens’ systems.

Saracens’ kick chase is also a big part of their game plan and Lewington is nowhere near Maitland, Strettle or Williams from an aerial point of view so I’m not really sure why they signed him?

I know Strettle is retiring but Lewington isn’t a like for like replacement.