RugbyRebels

I think my ideal would be:

2027: Aus
2031: USA
2035: Italy or Argentina

Puja

Puja wrote:I think my ideal would be:

2027: Aus
2031: USA
2035: Italy or Argentina

Puja

Italy in 35, then Argentina after that.

Puja wrote:I think my ideal would be:

2027: Aus
2031: USA
2035: Italy or Argentina

Puja

Make it Arg in 2035, Italy in 2039, with a Lions tour of the Americas in 2033 and you’ve got my vote.

Mellsblue wrote:https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... ssion=true

Shocking news!

Great to see they're doing it in an organised fashion though - feeling out stakeholders and stadia, getting MLR involved, hiring the guy who brought the 2026 football world cup to the US. If they're really serious about cracking the USA though, they surely have to consider the possibility of a summer RWC to avoid the NFL - just shifting it from end Sep-start Nov to an August-September slot would make a phenomenal difference in media coverage and attendances. Plus, it's unfair that RWC has just settled in "disrupting the NH season" slot for the past 6 iterations - I don't see why we couldn't inconvenience the SH season slightly for the first time since professionalism started.

Puja

To add onto political considerations we now also need to be giving serious consideration to where has the least impact from weather extremes and the infrastructure for the tournament to cope with flooding, snow storms etc.

East Coast US in the late summer early autumn will potentially be serious storms territory, whereas the South West CCoast could be murderous heatwave territory.

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... ssion=true

Shocking news!

Great to see they're doing it in an organised fashion though - feeling out stakeholders and stadia, getting MLR involved, hiring the guy who brought the 2026 football world cup to the US. If they're really serious about cracking the USA though, they surely have to consider the possibility of a summer RWC to avoid the NFL - just shifting it from end Sep-start Nov to an August-September slot would make a phenomenal difference in media coverage and attendances. Plus, it's unfair that RWC has just settled in "disrupting the NH season" slot for the past 6 iterations - I don't see why we couldn't inconvenience the SH season slightly for the first time since professionalism started.

Puja

An April/May/June time of year world cup would be pretty handy. After March madness and only the NHL play offs to go up against. Would need a realignment of a season but would be the best time for maximum exposure.

August into September is NFL time, no point even going up against their preseason.

Big D wrote:

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... ssion=true

Shocking news!

Great to see they're doing it in an organised fashion though - feeling out stakeholders and stadia, getting MLR involved, hiring the guy who brought the 2026 football world cup to the US. If they're really serious about cracking the USA though, they surely have to consider the possibility of a summer RWC to avoid the NFL - just shifting it from end Sep-start Nov to an August-September slot would make a phenomenal difference in media coverage and attendances. Plus, it's unfair that RWC has just settled in "disrupting the NH season" slot for the past 6 iterations - I don't see why we couldn't inconvenience the SH season slightly for the first time since professionalism started.

Puja

An April/May/June time of year world cup would be pretty handy. After March madness and only the NHL play offs to go up against. Would need a realignment of a season but would be the best time for maximum exposure.

August into September is NFL time, no point even going up against their preseason.

Huh - preseason's that big is it?

I wouldn't hate an April-June RWC, but I can't see it happening with all the vested interests. Maybe a June-July one could be possible, plus that'd have the advantage of not f*cking with the MLR. Is there anything going on in Yank sports then?

I mean, in terms of "cracking America", it'd be ideal to have MLR come directly after a RWC to give new fans something immediate to glom onto, but I don't see a USA RWC in Jan/Feb being all that good an idea for an uncountable number of reasons.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Big D wrote:

Puja wrote:
Shocking news!

Great to see they're doing it in an organised fashion though - feeling out stakeholders and stadia, getting MLR involved, hiring the guy who brought the 2026 football world cup to the US. If they're really serious about cracking the USA though, they surely have to consider the possibility of a summer RWC to avoid the NFL - just shifting it from end Sep-start Nov to an August-September slot would make a phenomenal difference in media coverage and attendances. Plus, it's unfair that RWC has just settled in "disrupting the NH season" slot for the past 6 iterations - I don't see why we couldn't inconvenience the SH season slightly for the first time since professionalism started.

Puja

An April/May/June time of year world cup would be pretty handy. After March madness and only the NHL play offs to go up against. Would need a realignment of a season but would be the best time for maximum exposure.

August into September is NFL time, no point even going up against their preseason.

Huh - preseason's that big is it?

I wouldn't hate an April-June RWC, but I can't see it happening with all the vested interests. Maybe a June-July one could be possible, plus that'd have the advantage of not f*cking with the MLR. Is there anything going on in Yank sports then?

I mean, in terms of "cracking America", it'd be ideal to have MLR come directly after a RWC to give new fans something immediate to glom onto, but I don't see a USA RWC in Jan/Feb being all that good an idea for an uncountable number of reasons.

Puja

There’s always something going on. June-July is MLB season, NHL Finals/Stanley and NBA playoffs.

I'd like a US-Canada joint tournament, games in BC, Toronto and Montreal and try to fix Canadian rugby's issues.

Mr Mwenda wrote:I'd like a US-Canada joint tournament, games in BC, Toronto and Montreal and try to fix Canadian rugby's issues.

Canada need to fortify the hell up and pay the money/find someone to pay the money to own them at least one more MLR side. They cannot keep up in the modern game with just one franchise across a country that big and spread out, especially when all their administration and player development is located across the other side of the country to that franchise.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Big D wrote:

Puja wrote:
Shocking news!

Great to see they're doing it in an organised fashion though - feeling out stakeholders and stadia, getting MLR involved, hiring the guy who brought the 2026 football world cup to the US. If they're really serious about cracking the USA though, they surely have to consider the possibility of a summer RWC to avoid the NFL - just shifting it from end Sep-start Nov to an August-September slot would make a phenomenal difference in media coverage and attendances. Plus, it's unfair that RWC has just settled in "disrupting the NH season" slot for the past 6 iterations - I don't see why we couldn't inconvenience the SH season slightly for the first time since professionalism started.

Puja

An April/May/June time of year world cup would be pretty handy. After March madness and only the NHL play offs to go up against. Would need a realignment of a season but would be the best time for maximum exposure.

August into September is NFL time, no point even going up against their preseason.

Huh - preseason's that big is it?

I wouldn't hate an April-June RWC, but I can't see it happening with all the vested interests. Maybe a June-July one could be possible, plus that'd have the advantage of not f*cking with the MLR. Is there anything going on in Yank sports then?

I mean, in terms of "cracking America", it'd be ideal to have MLR come directly after a RWC to give new fans something immediate to glom onto, but I don't see a USA RWC in Jan/Feb being all that good an idea for an uncountable number of reasons.

Puja

NFL regular season starts usually on the 2nd Thursday in September. Pre season historically isn't a massive event but after no NFL for 6 months people start getting interested again.

It is by far and away their biggest sport. It imo just wouldn't be sensible to be anywhere near those dates.

The old which is tougher debate is all fun and games but when you line up a sport trying to crack down on head high shots and tighten player safety v a sport still not too hot on player safety and players use themselves as missiles it will create comparisons. Those aren't useful when trying to grow the game over there.

More important are the tribal fan affiliations to NFL over here. You can grow the same for rugby , but if schedule games clash , then NFL wins every time. Get rugby attractive to the underserved communities that will supply the athletes, and commit to those communities, then you will make the money take notice.

morepork wrote:More important are the tribal fan affiliations to NFL over here. You can grow the same for rugby , but if schedule games clash , then NFL wins every time. Get rugby attractive to the underserved communities that will supply the athletes, and commit to those communities, then you will make the money take notice.

On that subject, I read this article just today: https://www.goffrugbyreport.com/news/hi ... pportunity

Puja

And the RFU comes blundering in with the announcement that they're bidding for 2031: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... -world-cup

Frankly, I think we can fuck the hell off on that. We hosted or joint-hosted the RWC in 1991, 1999, 2015 and now going again for 2031 - that's four times in a tournament that would only have had 12 instances. Back in 2015 we ran over the Italian bid which would've been better for the growth of the game and now we're looking to do the same to the USA. Fucksake.

Puja

Someone will have to come up with a decent chunk of change to take it elsewhere. I've not actually seen any rugby accounts for a while, but you've got to think they're technically termed for shit. One hopes we're properly insured from the outset, as this one could bite them on the arse, hard

We are going from France, which is the biggest chunk of change yet charged for a RWC, off to Australia, which has a decent record of supporting sporting events. You'd like to hope the finances will be in much better order by 2031.

Puja

Better order maybe depending on exactly how the pandemic goes. But you'd have to think borrowing now gets easier (both how much and repayment terms) if you can show a stronger likelihood of future income now, and it's a desperate clawing for cash at the best of times and we're very unlikely to be agreeing with Dr Pangloss by 2031

Also, nobody needs to protect the USA, the USA if it wants is more than capable of paying for stuff. Just when it comes to rugby it's less it doesn't want it, and more it doesn't even know it exists

Digby wrote:Also, nobody needs to protect the USA, the USA if it wants is more than capable of paying for stuff. Just when it comes to rugby it's less it doesn't want it, and more it doesn't even know it exists

We're not so much talking about protecting the USA and more protecting rugby (and the USAR to a lesser extent, which is broke). If we can develop the USA as a market, then that's a lot of extra money for a lot of time to come, whereas England is just going to the purse that we already have available.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:Also, nobody needs to protect the USA, the USA if it wants is more than capable of paying for stuff. Just when it comes to rugby it's less it doesn't want it, and more it doesn't even know it exists

We're not so much talking about protecting the USA and more protecting rugby (and the USAR to a lesser extent, which is broke). If we can develop the USA as a market, then that's a lot of extra money for a lot of time to come, whereas England is just going to the purse that we already have available.

Puja

So you're against being about the money in order to be about the money?

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:Also, nobody needs to protect the USA, the USA if it wants is more than capable of paying for stuff. Just when it comes to rugby it's less it doesn't want it, and more it doesn't even know it exists

We're not so much talking about protecting the USA and more protecting rugby (and the USAR to a lesser extent, which is broke). If we can develop the USA as a market, then that's a lot of extra money for a lot of time to come, whereas England is just going to the purse that we already have available.

Puja

So you're against being about the money in order to be about the money?

Exactly!

I mean, there are also ancillary benefits to making rugby a 2nd/3rd tier American sport - likely a more competitive US (and probably Canadian) national side so better RWCs and international rugby in general, likely safeguarding our Olympic place, a boost to spreading it elsewhere due to greater international recognituon - but Yank Country's main virtue is their money.

Puja

We've been hearing for a long time about how rugby can break into the world's richest sporting market, from many sports actually. Maybe it'll happen in my lifetime, but I'm not holding my breath or especially fussed either way. And you'd have to wonder what the Yanks would want to do with the sport, maybe it would mean the rise of rugby 12s, with 4 quarters of 15 minutes to have a high pace game with lots of advert breaks

I suspect we've got some much easier wins in terms of improving WCs when it comes to the likes of Namibia, Kenya, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Russia, Romania, Georgia, Spain... but that'd have to come on the back of not only not chasing money but even giving some % of what's already in the game away, or at least our claim to it

Digby wrote:We've been hearing for a long time about how rugby can break into the world's richest sporting market, from many sports actually. Maybe it'll happen in my lifetime, but I'm not holding my breath or especially fussed either way. And you'd have to wonder what the Yanks would want to do with the sport, maybe it would mean the rise of rugby 12s, with 4 quarters of 15 minutes to have a high pace game with lots of advert breaks

I suspect we've got some much easier wins in terms of improving WCs when it comes to the likes of Namibia, Kenya, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Russia, Romania, Georgia, Spain... but that'd have to come on the back of not only not chasing money but even giving some % of what's already in the game away, or at least our claim to it

The difference is that American rugby is on the rise currently, almost solely due to MLR. How far it'll rise is up for debate, but it's got a pro competition across 13 cities which has been getting crowds of 3-7k, national and local television deals, and got pretty decent ratings for the last two finals which were shown on national television. It's got momentum and a RWC could help with that. Of those other nations you mentioned, the only one I see in a similar incipient position is Russia, and that's mostly because they've got a dictator who loves him some national prestige through sporting achievement.

On a bit of a tangent - you're pretty knowledgeable about world rugby (and World Rugby, actually). What would you do to boost those names you mentioned?

Puja

I'm not convinced in advance you can much force these things. You can keep developing a base, and then maybe it catches on, maybe it doesn't. Even soccer in the USA has been a slow burn since the '94 World Cup, and a lot of the drive has come in kids sport, women's sport and with a big increase in the immigrant population and the wealth of that immigrant population, and none of those gains are what the IRB are hoping to achieve

Romania certainly comes close to quite a few of those same attributes you've listed, though I don't know if they've got much in the way of a TV deal, last I checked they were having trouble giving it away for free, and not being at the WC will not have helped matters. Still, the SuperLiga isn't bad.

I'd like to think wherever you put the WC it could create growth, but we've shown that isn't a certainty, albeit with a more mature professional setup already in place. For all of them they could use more access to tier 1 teams, but the tier 1 teams have a vested interest in the closed shops they run.