RugbyRebels

Selection is a bit up in the air as we dont know if Ford or Daly are going to be available, and whether the Exeter and Wasps players will be considered.
I dont think we'll see anything too radical. Jones will stick with the tried and tested where he can. He might have a tricky call to make about a back up 10 and just who plays at centre.
I dont expect many new faces.

Timbo wrote:

Stom wrote:Aye, I'd love to see Malins at 15. And blood Willis, maybe off the bench.

I'd also really like to see Marchant, but I can't imagine too many changes.

Mako, George, Sinckler
Itoje, JHill
Curry, Billy, Underhill
Youngs, Farrell
May, ?, Slade, Watson
Malins

LCD, Genge, Stuart, Launchbury, Willis, Mitchell, Simmonds, Thorley

Or maybe start Simmonds alongside Farrell and put Laurence or Marchant on the bench.

I can’t imagine Jonny Hill or Willis will be involved given their lack of time in the squad. Particularly Hill will need some time to learn lineout calls and moves.

I think the lack of the Barbarians game will actually help a bit with that - it means there'll be no recovery days from a Sunday match and training can start specifically for Italy. If Eddie thinks Hill and Willis are worth his time, then a full week's training is enough to get him into the squad, even if only from the bench.

Puja

Timbo wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:I’m not sure Manu is as influential as you’re saying.

Without Manu we can definitely be too passive and lateral in our backline. Even when he doesn’t get the ball his threat creates space for others.

But we do have a lot of carriers in the pack, so if we’re smart we can get by fine I think.

This.

Timbo wrote:

Stom wrote:Aye, I'd love to see Malins at 15. And blood Willis, maybe off the bench.

I'd also really like to see Marchant, but I can't imagine too many changes.

Mako, George, Sinckler
Itoje, JHill
Curry, Billy, Underhill
Youngs, Farrell
May, ?, Slade, Watson
Malins

LCD, Genge, Stuart, Launchbury, Willis, Mitchell, Simmonds, Thorley

Or maybe start Simmonds alongside Farrell and put Laurence or Marchant on the bench.

I can’t imagine Jonny Hill or Willis will be involved given their lack of time in the squad. Particularly Hill will need some time to learn lineout calls and moves.

Agreed. I think they will be called-up but I don’t see any of the Wasps or Exeter players being included in the match day squad for exactly that reason.

Watching yesterday's game now and France are looking really spicy. I'm not sure I'm happy about that.

A better French team is good for rugby IMO. They’ll always be a rival I dislike, but they play much better rugby than some of our other rivals.

Yeah, completely agree. Part of the second half was an absolute joy to watch - probably helped that they were tearing Wales, in particular, to pieces - but Thomas' try was sublime and Du Pont is frighteningly good.

Scrumhead wrote:A better French team is good for rugby IMO. They’ll always be a rival I dislike, but they play much better rugby than some of our other rivals.

Why do you dislike them?

I've only taken issue with the Welsh and South Africa, for very different reasons. But I've always had a soft spot for the French.

Scrumhead wrote:A better French team is good for rugby IMO. They’ll always be a rival I dislike, but they play much better rugby than some of our other rivals.

Agreed.

Quite intrigued to see their development. They are naive, and I think for all the praise both DuPont and Ntamack have iffy kicking/tactical games. Perfect example in the Exeter-Toulouse match when Exeter held Toulouse’s running game in the first half (barely at times, tbf), so Dupont & Ntamack tried playing territory 2nd half. Toulouse pretty much fell to pieces and Exeter completely dominated the kicking battle. The French scrum was also a weakness in the 6 nations, but that’s probably an easy enough fix given the quality of their tight 5 forwards.

If you let them play they are pretty irresistible though.

France also still don't seem to be making headway against the issue of stupid penalties. Not that England can crow about that.

It's great that they're once again a joy in full flight.

Stom wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:A better French team is good for rugby IMO. They’ll always be a rival I dislike, but they play much better rugby than some of our other rivals.

Why do you dislike them?

I've only taken issue with the Welsh and South Africa, for very different reasons. But I've always had a soft spot for the French.

Hard to define ... I don’t really know the answer to that.

I can tell you exactly why I dislike the Welsh and South Africans, though.

Mr Mwenda wrote:France also still don't seem to be making headway against the issue of stupid penalties. Not that England can crow about that.

It's great that they're once again a joy in full flight.

We’ve got another 5 matches over the next few weeks to work on the problem of giving away penalties, but essentially, this is a young side with a few older heads, whose confidence is on the rise. These younger players should form the nucleus of the World Cup team in France in 2023. I just hope they don’t peak too soon. One good thing about these Autumn tests is that the FFR have an agreement with the LNR (representing the clubs) that no player will play more than three tests and three players will be released to play for their clubs each test weekend. A bit late for Toulouse who were missing eight for Saturday’s home match with Lyon, which they lost.

Revised squad to be named later. Mail reckons Willis, Umaga, Robson, Launchbury, Williams, Hill and Slade to be added. LCD needs an op and the Simmonds are overlooked.

francoisfou wrote:We’ve got another 5 matches over the next few weeks to work on the problem of giving away penalties, but essentially, this is a young side with a few older heads, whose confidence is on the rise. These younger players should form the nucleus of the World Cup team in France in 2023. I just hope they don’t peak too soon. One good thing about these Autumn tests is that the FFR have an agreement with the LNR (representing the clubs) that no player will play more than three tests and three players will be released to play for their clubs each test weekend. A bit late for Toulouse who were missing eight for Saturday’s home match with Lyon, which they lost.

I really hope so, and that France's rise continues, the creases get ironed out, and more youngsters put their hands up for inclusion.
I've missed the France that had me fall in love with rugby in the first place.

fivepointer wrote:Revised squad to be named later. Mail reckons Willis, Umaga, Robson, Launchbury, Williams, Hill and Slade to be added. LCD needs an op and the Simmonds are overlooked.

Umaga over Simmonds for back-up 10 is un-Jones-like.

Oakboy wrote:

fivepointer wrote:Revised squad to be named later. Mail reckons Willis, Umaga, Robson, Launchbury, Williams, Hill and Slade to be added. LCD needs an op and the Simmonds are overlooked.

Umaga over Simmonds for back-up 10 is un-Jones-like.

Really? Overlooking the double winning fly half to pick someone else, seems to be quite on his "I see more than others" brand, especially when it comes to players he's never going to pick to start when his favourites are fit.

Oakboy wrote:

fivepointer wrote:Revised squad to be named later. Mail reckons Willis, Umaga, Robson, Launchbury, Williams, Hill and Slade to be added. LCD needs an op and the Simmonds are overlooked.

Umaga over Simmonds for back-up 10 is un-Jones-like.

Why? Umaga has been in and around the squad previously. It is very like Jones to keep working with players if he sees something he likes.

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

fivepointer wrote:Revised squad to be named later. Mail reckons Willis, Umaga, Robson, Launchbury, Williams, Hill and Slade to be added. LCD needs an op and the Simmonds are overlooked.

Umaga over Simmonds for back-up 10 is un-Jones-like.

Why? Umaga has been in and around the squad previously. It is very like Jones to keep working with players if he sees something he likes.

I was thinking more that he usually prefers solidity over flair - Farrell/Cipriani etc. He's not bothered about running options from 10 usually which would be Umaga's one plus point ahead of Simmonds.

Luke Cowan-Dickie, Ali Crossdale, Courtney Lawes, Jack Nowell, Manu Tuilagi and Mark Wilson are unavailable due to injury. Elliot Daly, George Ford and Joe Marler will join up with the squad for reconditioning.

Backs
Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 9 caps)
Owen Farrell (Saracens, 83 caps)
George Furbank (Northampton Saints, 2 caps)
Willi Heinz (Gloucester Rugby, 13 caps)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 50 caps)
Ollie Lawrence (Worcester Warriors, uncapped)
Max Malins (Bristol Bears, uncapped)
Joe Marchant (Harlequins, 3 caps)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 56 caps)
Dan Robson (Wasps, 2 caps)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 29 caps)
Ollie Thorley (Gloucester Rugby, uncapped)
Jacob Umaga (Wasps, uncapped)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 43 caps)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 99 caps)

Forwards
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 23 caps)
Tom Dunn (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
Ben Earl (Bristol Bears, 3 caps)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 15 caps)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 18 caps)
Jamie George (Saracens, 49 caps)
Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, uncapped)
Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors, 1 cap)
Maro Itoje (Saracens, 38 caps)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 65 caps)
Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 8 caps)
Beno Obano (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
David Ribbans (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Jack Singleton (Gloucester Rugby, 3 caps)
Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 35 caps)
Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 3 caps)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 18 caps)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 51 caps)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 59 caps)
Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 18 caps)
Jack Willis (Wasps, uncapped)

Forwards
Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 59 caps)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 18 caps)
Beno Obano (Bath Rugby, uncapped)

Jamie George (Saracens, 49 caps)
Tom Dunn (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
Jack Singleton (Gloucester Rugby, 3 caps)

Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 35 caps)
Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 3 caps)
Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 18 caps)

Maro Itoje (Saracens, 38 caps)
Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, uncapped)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 15 caps)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 65 caps)
David Ribbans (Northampton Saints, uncapped)

Jack Willis (Wasps, uncapped)
Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors, 1 cap)
Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 8 caps)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 23 caps)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 18 caps)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 51 caps)
Ben Earl (Bristol Bears, 3 caps)

Backs
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 99 caps)
Willi Heinz (Gloucester Rugby, 13 caps)
Dan Robson (Wasps, 2 caps)

Owen Farrell (Saracens, 83 caps)
Jacob Umaga (Wasps, uncapped)

Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 50 caps)
Ollie Lawrence (Worcester Warriors, uncapped)
Joe Marchant (Harlequins, 3 caps)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 29 caps)

Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 56 caps)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 43 caps)
Ollie Thorley (Gloucester Rugby, uncapped)
Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 9 caps)

Max Malins (Bristol Bears, uncapped)
George Furbank (Northampton Saints, 2 caps)

Luke Cowan-Dickie, Ali Crossdale, Courtney Lawes, Jack Nowell, Manu Tuilagi and Mark Wilson are unavailable due to injury. Elliot Daly, George Ford and Joe Marler will join up with the squad for reconditioning.

Mitchell dropped in the most disappointing news of the squad. No inside centre in the squad - it'll either be Lawrence or Slade moving across, or (probably more unlikely) starting Umaga with Farrell at 12. Cokanasiga back in without fanfare after having missed the previous two camps. Weird.

Puja

Ben Spencer missing out is crazy. You have to feel for him.

Presumably, Umaga must at least get a bench slot as one of only two FHs, in which case, presumably, Jones sees no reason to hold back Wasps/Exeter players from the 23.

Based on recent club form, Furbank is lucky to be there. Will one of Coka, Thorley or Malins start?

What is the point of those three SHs? Surely, Robson will be in the 23.

Puja wrote:Mitchell dropped in the most disappointing news of the squad. No inside centre in the squad - it'll either be Lawrence or Slade moving across, or (probably more unlikely) starting Umaga with Farrell at 12. Cokanasiga back in without fanfare after having missed the previous two camps. Weird.

Puja

Yep. I was disappointed to see that too, but at least Robson has been brought in. I’m more of a fan of his than you are though ...

Also disappointed to see Dombrandt left out, but not hugely surprised by that.

Sad to hear Wilson is injured again, but on the plus side, it does present opportunities for Willis (thank god he actually did get called-up), Hill and Earl. I’d like to see Dunn as George’s back up a) because I think he’s a very good all round hooker and b) because Singleton has been poor since the RWC and doesn’t really deserve to be there IMO.

Pleased to see Jonny Hill get a well-earned call-up and also pleased to see Lawrence, Obano and Malins retained.

Overall, swap out Heinz for Mitchell and Umaga for Simmonds and I’d be happy.

Not sure what more Joe Simmonds could have done. Heinz is a daft selection. Other than that...