RugbyRebels

FKAS wrote:We are missing Genge, Mamukashvilli, Youngs, Ford, Nadolo and Murimurivalu at present.

Hopefully that will be key. Bower, Clare, Bonilla, and Van Wyk were massive factors in our loss today. While I have faith that Bonilla and Van Wyk are better than they showed today, I can't say the same about Bower and Clare.

On the bright side, Leatigaga looked the most effective he ever has since we signed him. If we can get him to do that for 60 minutes per game, he'll be a useful backup to Genge. Do we know where Jake Kerr is? He's not with Scotland, is he?

Puja

Scrumhead wrote:Curtis Rona is having a great game.

Is van Wyler injured or was he just yanked for a shocking 35mins (25 if you take away his sin bin)?

Meakes and Rona were very good all game. Rona looks like exactly the player England could do with in midfield, albeit against a very ropy defence. Not bad for a 29 year old journeyman!

fivepointer wrote:Just when you thought Newcastle-Sale on Friday night plumbed the depths along jogs this monstrosity.

That was utterly wretched from both sides, who both seemed to be playing in a strange kind of slow motion, not helped by innumerable stoppages and scrum engagements conducted at a snails pace.

Irish deserved the win by dint of being a little less useless than Tigers and being able to put a couple of passes together to score a try.

Come on Pro rugby. We've got to be better than this.

If you look at the personnel playing, you can't be surprised though. Tons of journeyman, dotted with inexperienced young uns, plus a couple of formerly top players eking out pensions. And not many units that have played together much.

Epaminondas Pules wrote:Well that was.....erm....ace. Steward was excellent. I’ll stick to the positives so that’s it.

yep, he's a champ under the high ball, which is a good basis, especially given the sheer volume of high balls in the current iteration of wugger

FKAS wrote:LI told twice in the same half, next man goes. Ref was shocking. The only thing worse has been the Tigers attack.

Can't believe they are giving that piece of crap Jackson the MOTM either. Blair Cowan was easily LI's best player and MOTM for me.

Borthwick needs to get a grip on the Tigers lineout as that just wasn't good enough and if Clare is going to play that many minutes he needs to be nailing that as the basics are what he brings.

well Cowan gets about, but he's bloody clumsy.

Puja wrote:

FKAS wrote:We are missing Genge, Mamukashvilli, Youngs, Ford, Nadolo and Murimurivalu at present.

Hopefully that will be key. Bower, Clare, Bonilla, and Van Wyk were massive factors in our loss today. While I have faith that Bonilla and Van Wyk are better than they showed today, I can't say the same about Bower and Clare.

On the bright side, Leatigaga looked the most effective he ever has since we signed him. If we can get him to do that for 60 minutes per game, he'll be a useful backup to Genge. Do we know where Jake Kerr is? He's not with Scotland, is he?

Puja

I think Jake Kerr is out of favour and Clare is the preferred option on the bench. Clare normally brings reliable scrum and lineout work and then grafts in the tight exchanges. Seems to do it for Borthwick. Kerr needs to work on the core aspects but offers vastly more around the pitch, hopefully he gets another chance soon.

Bower struggling against a 100+ cap tighthead wasn't really surprising. Not a major factor in the game either as he conceded a couple of penalties but that was it. If we're going to field a fourth choice loosehead then he may well struggle against someone's first choice. Bower seems a placeholder until the lad out of the development squad is ready to step up.

I just don't understand why Bonilla kept the kicking responsibilities, he was clearly struggling for whatever reason. Steward was there landing massive kicks on a sixpence, just give him the ball. LI had their many warnings and it's a lot easier to defend a lineout between your 22 and halfway than it is close to your 5m line. Five metres out and LI won't be throwing a jumper up there whereas they were risking it elsewhere around the pitch. Set the maul close in wait for the inevitable penalty and see LI go down a man but we couldn't do it because Bonilla couldn't land the kicks.

Banquo wrote:

FKAS wrote:LI told twice in the same half, next man goes. Ref was shocking. The only thing worse has been the Tigers attack.

Can't believe they are giving that piece of crap Jackson the MOTM either. Blair Cowan was easily LI's best player and MOTM for me.

Borthwick needs to get a grip on the Tigers lineout as that just wasn't good enough and if Clare is going to play that many minutes he needs to be nailing that as the basics are what he brings.

well Cowan gets about, but he's bloody clumsy.

Yeah he's not a top level player but he's a good club man. Made a lot of carries and was a thorn in our side in defence. You need a nuisance at 7 something Brink didn't quite bring for us but Reffell did the week before.

Borthwick does need to sort the lineout. I think he's simplified it to stop the errors but now the opposition are reading our throws too easily.

FKAS wrote:

Banquo wrote:

FKAS wrote:LI told twice in the same half, next man goes. Ref was shocking. The only thing worse has been the Tigers attack.

Can't believe they are giving that piece of crap Jackson the MOTM either. Blair Cowan was easily LI's best player and MOTM for me.

Borthwick needs to get a grip on the Tigers lineout as that just wasn't good enough and if Clare is going to play that many minutes he needs to be nailing that as the basics are what he brings.

well Cowan gets about, but he's bloody clumsy.

Yeah he's not a top level player but he's a good club man. Made a lot of carries and was a thorn in our side in defence. You need a nuisance at 7 something Brink didn't quite bring for us but Reffell did the week before.

Borthwick does need to sort the lineout. I think he's simplified it to stop the errors but now the opposition are reading our throws too easily.

Cowan is a 34 year old journeyman, and still MOTM . I get what you say, but surely the clubs could be raising their sights a little.

Yes they should but even a journeyman can have a stand out game in occasion. He wasn't the official MOTM that was the embarrassment to rugby wearing 10 for LI.

I actually think the LI recruitment has been fairly clever. Backrow looks a bit old and optimistic (SOB on that money with that injury history). The experienced frontrow has definitely given them a better platform, they just need to get Mafi fit to give their lineout a big boost.

Tigers, have recruited pretty well. Finally some good backrow options. We just need to get the right combinations and systems in place. Currently they are not cohesive.

FKAS wrote:Yes they should but even a journeyman can have a stand out game in occasion. He wasn't the official MOTM that was the embarrassment to rugby wearing 10 for LI.

I actually think the LI recruitment has been fairly clever. Backrow looks a bit old and optimistic (SOB on that money with that injury history). The experienced frontrow has definitely given them a better platform, they just need to get Mafi fit to give their lineout a big boost.

Tigers, have recruited pretty well. Finally some good backrow options. We just need to get the right combinations and systems in place. Currently they are not cohesive.

Its 'good' in a pretty limited context though surely, or relative to what was there before? I'm just gauging ambition vs pragmatism v salary constraints.

FKAS wrote:Yes they should but even a journeyman can have a stand out game in occasion. He wasn't the official MOTM that was the embarrassment to rugby wearing 10 for LI.

I actually think the LI recruitment has been fairly clever. Backrow looks a bit old and optimistic (SOB on that money with that injury history). The experienced frontrow has definitely given them a better platform, they just need to get Mafi fit to give their lineout a big boost.

Tigers, have recruited pretty well. Finally some good backrow options. We just need to get the right combinations and systems in place. Currently they are not cohesive.

I think that’s unfair to Cowan. He was very good yesterday and had a great season in 19/20 prior to the break. I think he’s having a real Indian Summer.

Coleman was also excellent for them prior to his injury. I’ve no idea when he’s back, but he will certainly make more of a difference to their lineout. I imagine Simmons will too when he arrives.

Early days for the Tigers signings. I think Wiese looks like a good acquisition and Brink and van Wyk are a lot better than they showed yesterday.

Scrumhead wrote:

FKAS wrote:Yes they should but even a journeyman can have a stand out game in occasion. He wasn't the official MOTM that was the embarrassment to rugby wearing 10 for LI.

I actually think the LI recruitment has been fairly clever. Backrow looks a bit old and optimistic (SOB on that money with that injury history). The experienced frontrow has definitely given them a better platform, they just need to get Mafi fit to give their lineout a big boost.

Tigers, have recruited pretty well. Finally some good backrow options. We just need to get the right combinations and systems in place. Currently they are not cohesive.

I think that’s unfair to Cowan. He was very good yesterday and had a great season in 19/20 prior to the break. I think he’s having a real Indian Summer.

Coleman was also excellent for them prior to his injury. I’ve no idea when he’s back, but he will certainly make more of a difference to their lineout. I imagine Simmons will too when he arrives.

Early days for the Tigers signings. I think Wiese looks like a good acquisition and Brink and van Wyk are a lot better than they showed yesterday.

I was the one talking up Cowan's input to the game.

On paper the LI tight five of Dell, Creevy, Kepu, Coleman, Mafi goes a long way to fixing the soft underbelly of recent years. The players in behind them are not of the same quality but are generally young so could develop.

Van Wyk is a very frustrating player. He's clearly got ability ball in hand but his positioning and defence seem to be impaired by his tendency to panic under pressure and make rash decisions. He could well be a bench player in a few weeks when Murimurivalu and Nadolo return. Steward certainly won't be losing his spot at 15 with his recent performances. Brink is back from a long layoff and was asked to perform a role he probably isn't suited to, keep him rotating in at 6 or 8 and I think he'll do fine. We've got specialised opensides who can do the job he couldn't on Saturday. Weise looks like the 8 we've been needing and combined with Liebenburg at 6 that's a damn good backrow being built. Just need to build round it. Lavanini will be back soon as well which will give us another boost.

Scrumhead wrote:

FKAS wrote:Yes they should but even a journeyman can have a stand out game in occasion. He wasn't the official MOTM that was the embarrassment to rugby wearing 10 for LI.

I actually think the LI recruitment has been fairly clever. Backrow looks a bit old and optimistic (SOB on that money with that injury history). The experienced frontrow has definitely given them a better platform, they just need to get Mafi fit to give their lineout a big boost.

Tigers, have recruited pretty well. Finally some good backrow options. We just need to get the right combinations and systems in place. Currently they are not cohesive.

I think that’s unfair to Cowan. He was very good yesterday and had a great season in 19/20 prior to the break. I think he’s having a real Indian Summer.

Coleman was also excellent for them prior to his injury. I’ve no idea when he’s back, but he will certainly make more of a difference to their lineout. I imagine Simmons will too when he arrives.

Early days for the Tigers signings. I think Wiese looks like a good acquisition and Brink and van Wyk are a lot better than they showed yesterday.

I was the one who thought Cowan a bit clumsy, so call me unfair if you wish.

It was still a bang ordinary game, but its not surprising when you look at the players and how long they've been together or otherwise.

Van Wyk knocking the ball out was the highlight of the game for me, which probably says it all.