RugbyRebels

I think a summer off would be good for a lot of senior players so they get a good rest and a full pre season.

Mikey Brown wrote:Yeah I think a lot of the first team have played a huge amount in the last season or two. I just don’t know at what point it becomes an ‘A’ tour.

Would guys like Kebble perhaps welcome a chance to find their feet a bit more for Scotland? I’d be particularly interested who the 2nd/3rd line props would be.

Hard to know if those who’ve spent chunks of time out with injury just need rest or they’d want to get playing again.

and I don't know at what point it becomes a tour! I think some games discussed were UK based, others one off away (Romania eg). pedantic I know.

next in line props is difficult.

Schoeman depending on when he is SQ sometime this summer. If he is SQ then I'd like to see him against good opposition. I have a fear he is a bit of a flat track bully whose scrum technique has been sussed and is known to all refs - last season IIRC most penalised player in the league, that takes some doing. His carrying also seems to have gone back a bit, and is very prone to no arm tackles. And I think when Edin have played top sides he disappears a bit.

After that still Bhatti probably on LH, couple of promising LH young props at Glas and Edin but game time infinitesimally small to nil this season
TH a bigger problem. Gamble at Edin but again so little opportunity, Rae at Glasgow who can scrum but isn't exactly improving with age otherwise and seems to be zero rated at Glasgow. McCallum at Edin but was back to LH this week, really really been messed about by Cockerill - this lad had to play TH for edin a few seasons back at a very young age, then got capped and never looked out of place. Still think he could be a great back up to Fagerson longer term, but he needs to find a club where he gets a genuine chance -back behind another Bok next season at Edin, plus Nel and the Fijian if they keep him on and Gamble pushing for time as well

Yeah, I’ve been aware of McCallum and Rae for a while but scrums are a mystery to me at the best of times. I was hoping one of them would have come forward as a real option to displace Nel or Berghan by this point. As you say it’s not all down to them that they haven’t been able to.

Would throwing a bunch of youngsters in against Romania be a great acid test or would that likely just mean someone getting a pasting and a big knock to their confidence?

Mikey Brown wrote:Yeah, I’ve been aware of McCallum and Rae for a while but scrums are a mystery to me at the best of times. I was hoping one of them would have come forward as a real option to displace Nel or Berghan by this point. As you say it’s not all down to them that they haven’t been able to.

Would throwing a bunch of youngsters in against Romania be a great acid test or would that likely just mean someone getting a pasting and a big knock to their confidence?

Rae has had chances, loads. Seems to get so far, then stalls and goes backwards (except in scrum). McCallum has been messed about big time. He played LH at school and age group but only because he couldn't get in front of Fagerson! He was always really a TH.
The others youngsters, yes I'd be wary. EG Lambert at Glasgow thought to be a great prospect, but coach has been clear he isn't quite ready to scrum 80mins against the pros (even though he was fine at U20s) hence benched this week as no-one else fit and available, but didn't get on even when game comfortably won

Haven't seen much of Romania recently, will be trying to catch up over the next few weeks. But either of these 2 would cope well enough, better than that, against Romania, even against Georgia who scrum ain't close to what it was. Japan would be ok, against England A, have to be them or better

Hungover and unable to move from the sofa, so trying to imagine what a summer squad could look like. Quite a mix of selections where there are simply no other options and uncertainty over who might need a rest. Are the Edinburgh players needing a break or might they be happy to play some rugby outside of the constraints of Cockerill/Hodge?

I'd think the bulk of the first team Sutherland, Fagerson, Gray, Cummings, Ritchie, Watson, Fagerson, Price, Russell, VDM, Johnson, Harris, Hogg are all either injured, due a rest or with the Lions. Not sure if guys like Graham, Hastings or Redpath having spent time out with injury are better served getting some game time in the summer or just focussing on pre-season. Certainly feels odd putting names like Toolis and Bennet in there but not sure what other options there are.

Prop
Kebble, Schoeman, Bhatti, McCallum, Rae - as above not sure any are particularly demanding of a spot but Nel and Berghan look knackered

Hooker
Turner, Cherry, Stewart - doesn't seem like Ashman is getting enough game-time to be in the conversation

Lock
Skinner, Craig, GG, RG, Toolis (4 from)

Back-row
Haining, Bradbury, Graham, Crosbie, Bayliss, Gordon, Miller (5 from)

Half-back
Horne, Dobie, Shiel, Hastings, VDW, Thomson, Chamberlain

Centre
Redpath ideally, Jones, either Taylor, Scott? Bennet?

Back-three
Graham, McLean, Maitland, Kinghorn

Not overly convinced, but I've spent too long typing this out now to ditch it.

I'd almost rather we made all games A games and used a mix of guys. Ashman and Chapman are getting some gametime down south, Hutchinson (maybe Dingwall) and Young could all be in consideration if viewed as an A squad.

Especially if Townsend is on Lions duty.

I would love Charlie Chapman to get named in the latest squad .

It's a pity he's a scrum half though, he has lots of competition to oust, especially when full teams are announced for autumn and 6Ns etc.

Do you reckon we'll see this guy in the summer tour squad, so we can keep him away from England's grasp? Would you like him capped more to the point?

Hmmm.
This is Eddie Jones after all so everything is unlikely to be exactly as it seems...or announced in advance.
Might be a "look over there" distraction. Could be a test to see to what extent we are frightened into capturing anyone and everyone around at the slightest hint of them going elsewhere.

English clubs qualified player payments, agents touting their charges for better deals.
The possibilities are endless and include the genuine prospect of a player declaring their intentions and Jones (or any coach) making good on them.

af73 wrote:Hmmm.
This is Eddie Jones after all so everything is unlikely to be exactly as it seems...or announced in advance.
Might be a "look over there" distraction. Could be a test to see to what extent we are frightened into capturing anyone and everyone around at the slightest hint of them going elsewhere.

English clubs qualified player payments, agents touting their charges for better deals.
The possibilities are endless and include the genuine prospect of a player declaring their intentions and Jones (or any coach) making good on them.

Yep - let's keep our cool. By all means speak to him and watch him, but you shouldnt get Scotland caps just for being dual qualified.

I guess that's one potential tight-head to cross off the list then?

So who's the coach if Toonie and Tandy are with the Lions (and the summer your goes ahead)? Dalziel or Blair I guess. the former has more head coach experience but the latter seems to be on the fast-track. They could parachute in a Cockers/Wilson combo but that instinctively feels like a really bad idea.

switchskier wrote:So who's the coach if Toonie and Tandy are with the Lions (and the summer your goes ahead)? Dalziel or Blair I guess. the former has more head coach experience but the latter seems to be on the fast-track. They could parachute in a Cockers/Wilson combo but that instinctively feels like a really bad idea.

I thought about the Cockerel/Wilson, I think given how absolute dog shit Edinburgh were this year (without their internationals mostly, but also when they got back!) sending the coach on a jolly would be a bad idea, he also probably wouldnt anyway unless they ££. I would send the backroom staff on an A tour, with a few regulars as backbone or where cupboard is bare just for the experience, use the opportunity if it is actually there to be had (might be off in other countries with Covid, who knows).

Keep Blair and Dalziel with either McCrae or Murray seconded as defence coach.

The team still needs to play the way the current staff want them too and it makes little sense parachuting RC in.

Wilson probably could come in if need be as he understands the systems.

Big D wrote:Keep Blair and Dalziel with either McCrae or Murray seconded as defence coach.

The team still needs to play the way the current staff want them too and it makes little sense parachuting RC in.

Wilson probably could come in if need be as he understands the systems.

Yep - I'd probably keep Wilson where he is though. Big season for Glasgow coming up and don't want to get in the way of that. A lot of his players will be away anyway but think there's some planning to do (and some potential Glasgow players might be involved in the Super 6 if it happens)

Can I ask what the "Super 6" is Cameo, I thought that was some tournament for SQ players but that can't be the case regarding Glasgow players that you say could play as most would automatically be SQ, bar Venter who came to them from abroad?

Scottish Caley Fan wrote:Can I ask what the "Super 6" is Cameo, I thought that was some tournament for SQ players but that can't be the case regarding Glasgow players that you say could play as most would automatically be SQ, bar Venter who came to them from abroad?

The Super 6 is a new (it only had one season before the Covid disruption) tournament that is meant to help bridge the gap between amateur rugby in Scotland and professional rugby. It's also meant to help bring through coaches. I should say it has a lot of detractors (especially if you read The Offside Line) though I think it is worth a go.

There are six club sides (Melrose, Watsonians, Heriot's, Boroughmuir, Stirling County and Ayr) made up of semi professionals. Most of these will never go pro but there are a decent amount who are young up and coming players on the radar of the pro teams. For example, Rufus McLean (Glasgow), Jamie Hodgson, Conor Boyle and Matt Currie (both Edinburgh) were playing for Watsonians last year and Rory Darge (Glasgow) was at Melrose (called Southern Knights I think).

The aim was for it to morph into a summer tournament too. I think I read that they would get it going this summer again but can't see where.

Thanks Cameo . So what was I thinking of then lol, there is something for potential SQ players to play in?

Scottish Caley Fan wrote:Thanks Cameo . So what was I thinking of then lol, there is something for potential SQ players to play in?

The Super 6 is a great concept. It will likely need a few seasons to bed in properly. It won't be 100% SQ players, but it is a bridge, and should be a clear step up from premiership 1). If you concentrate the best players into 6 teams, seems obvious. And it is the only place (outside the pro teams) where players should be paid now, thus freeing up money that too many clubs would splurge on vanity signings often to the detriment of proper grass root investment in minis, or facilities

And somewhere we can see props develop rather than hoping (forlornly) that we can send all the maybe/nearly players to an Eng Championship team

Just happened to see one about the half backs and not looked at the others, but seems relevant.

https://www.scottishrugbyblog.co.uk/tag/depth-chart/

I have been reading these all week Mikey , they are really interesting and give us an idea of what the squad may look like by next world cup and the one after.

There are certainly players worth keeping an eye on (younger players) and some interesting players who I didn't know were SQ, first being Nathan McBeth and today's being Charlie Savala :O.

Hopefully Kevin does more of these as I certainly enjoy reading them, tomorrow is his last one though , focusing on the Back 3.

"Japan coach Jamie Joseph plays down prospect of summer Test against Scotland" https://www.theoffsideline.com/jamie-jo ... and-japan/

Plans for the summer getting a little bit clearer . This article hints at away tests against Georgia and Romania and another one against either Spain or England. Unfortunately Japan rule out a test so I think it will be an Exiles style squad for us with youngsters and new caps making up the majority of the squad.

Have to say the heart sank a bit when I read that.

Hope it's just a case of circumstances forcing fixturing on the fly as it's basically the crumbs left over after the crumbs have been finished!.
After Covd did for our 1st game in New Zealand in 20 years, I hoped we might get a higher profile slot, especially after our recent form. Wales are in Argentina, Ireland were supposed to be in Australia I think.....even Italy have a couple of games in New Zealand yet we are travelling to Romania and Georgia with possibly England 'A' the "feature" game

We've done the missionary work in Fiji, Samoa, Georgia etc ....when our successive bottom place finishes didn't rate much interest from SH countries - but now even Japan are getting picky about giving us a game!

af73 wrote: Wales are in Argentina, Ireland were supposed to be in Australia I think.....even Italy have a couple of games in New Zealand yet we are travelling to Romania and Georgia with possibly England 'A' the "feature" game

think we should wait and see if any of those tours actually happen. We might end up with the best selection of games

And be thankful if any games happen

af73 wrote:Have to say the heart sank a bit when I read that.

Hope it's just a case of circumstances forcing fixturing on the fly as it's basically the crumbs left over after the crumbs have been finished!.
After Covd did for our 1st game in New Zealand in 20 years, I hoped we might get a higher profile slot, especially after our recent form. Wales are in Argentina, Ireland were supposed to be in Australia I think.....even Italy have a couple of games in New Zealand yet we are travelling to Romania and Georgia with possibly England 'A' the "feature" game

We've done the missionary work in Fiji, Samoa, Georgia etc ....when our successive bottom place finishes didn't rate much interest from SH countries - but now even Japan are getting picky about giving us a game!

In a Lions year where we should be down a few key players I am not too disappointed we are not heading to NZ or Aus with a few guys missing.

Pro rugby players have been in bubbles for a while and with the Lions series signalling the two year run up to the next RWC I am not against an "easier" summer where we can blood a few guys.