Squad named

[FKAS]

Is Marler banned or something?
Also pretty amazed from what little I’ve seen of Ribbans that he’s not even in the squad.
Otherwise there a lot that looks careful and deliberate so good

Marler played yesterday so he must be permantly out of the picture from choice. Let's face, it Cole is brought in to shore up one side of the front row, Marler should be in to do it on the other side. He'd be my starting LH.

Has Marler asked not to be included? He's done it before so he might have discreetly let it be known he wants to concentrate on Quins.

I'd have paired up the props, Marler and Sinckler then Genge and Cole. Started one set and then replaced them with the other fairly early in the second half. Keep the older two fresh and gives the carrying option basically a half to empty the tank and run riot.

[Stom]

OK, so this is weird... I almost posted a fake squad that looked a lot like this!

Mainly good. Don't get Earl, and Farrell is a ...we all know. Shame no VRR and others, but a good start.

[Oakboy]

Has anything been said about injured players? Watson, Quirke and Ford would be there if they had 6 club games in, presumably.

[SDHoneymonster]

I'll echo the call of others and say that Ribbans has been hard done by, and I feel the back row is imbalanced - do we really need all of Curry, Ludlam, Earl and Willis? I'd have picked Ted Hill in place of one of them personally, although it is hilarious that after decades of everyone confidently claiming England doesn't produce 7s we now can't stuff enough into the squad. In the backs would definitely have had Lawrence in - Marchant's had a quieter season so far and is off to France at the end of it, so I'd have gone for Ollie. I also still believe in Big Ratu Joe, although I know that's not a universally shared opinion. I wouldn't have gone back to Daly either, but I suspect with Nowell and May being dropped and Watson picking up another injury that Borthwick didn't want to head into the tournament with two uncapped wingers inked in to start, and therefore it seems like a reasonable enough pick.

[Mellsblue]

I’m happy Cole has been selected as I get to see this beauty again.

[SDHoneymonster]

One thing to add: if Borthwick has picked Fin Smith to cap him against the Scots and then drop him for Ford for the rest of the tournament, then he is obviously a magnificent troll of a selector and already has my full backing.

[Spiffy]

You could pick a very good team out of that squad, despite a couple of strange inclusions/omissions.

Pity that Farrell is appointed captain, which means that he's nailed on, which will affect how England plays the game.

[Puja]

I'll echo the call of others and say that Ribbans has been hard done by, and I feel the back row is imbalanced - do we really need all of Curry, Ludlam, Earl and Willis? I'd have picked Ted Hill in place of one of them personally, although it is hilarious that after decades of everyone confidently claiming England doesn't produce 7s we now can't stuff enough into the squad. In the backs would definitely have had Lawrence in - Marchant's had a quieter season so far and is off to France at the end of it, so I'd have gone for Ollie. I also still believe in Big Ratu Joe, although I know that's not a universally shared opinion. I wouldn't have gone back to Daly either, but I suspect with Nowell and May being dropped and Watson picking up another injury that Borthwick didn't want to head into the tournament with two uncapped wingers inked in to start, and therefore it seems like a reasonable enough pick.

I mean, Daly has been in ridiculous form. His game at the weekend made it almost impossible not to select him - he's gone away after being dropped and come back even stronger.

Otherwise, Ribbans for Isiekwe, VRR for Mako seem fairly universal opinions - I wouldn't drop a 7 for Hill, I'd drop Simmonds who has been underwhelming. Ludlam and Willis are more than capable of covering 8 in the event of something happening to Dombrandt.

Apart from those, it's a relatively uncontentious squad. Good start by the BigWick.

Puja

[Banquo]

I'll echo the call of others and say that Ribbans has been hard done by, and I feel the back row is imbalanced - do we really need all of Curry, Ludlam, Earl and Willis? I'd have picked Ted Hill in place of one of them personally, although it is hilarious that after decades of everyone confidently claiming England doesn't produce 7s we now can't stuff enough into the squad. In the backs would definitely have had Lawrence in - Marchant's had a quieter season so far and is off to France at the end of it, so I'd have gone for Ollie. I also still believe in Big Ratu Joe, although I know that's not a universally shared opinion. I wouldn't have gone back to Daly either, but I suspect with Nowell and May being dropped and Watson picking up another injury that Borthwick didn't want to head into the tournament with two uncapped wingers inked in to start, and therefore it seems like a reasonable enough pick.

I mean, Daly has been in ridiculous form. His game at the weekend made it almost impossible not to select him - he's gone away after being dropped and come back even stronger.

Otherwise, Ribbans for Isiekwe, VRR for Mako seem fairly universal opinions - I wouldn't drop a 7 for Hill, I'd drop Simmonds who has been underwhelming. Ludlam and Willis are more than capable of covering 8 in the event of something happening to Dombrandt.

Apart from those, it's a relatively uncontentious squad. Good start by the BigWick.

Puja

Similar deckchairs different ship builder same captain.

Ribbans is the only really odd omission. Faz as skipper is just annoying. And prob at 12 to….boot.

[Puja]

I'll echo the call of others and say that Ribbans has been hard done by, and I feel the back row is imbalanced - do we really need all of Curry, Ludlam, Earl and Willis? I'd have picked Ted Hill in place of one of them personally, although it is hilarious that after decades of everyone confidently claiming England doesn't produce 7s we now can't stuff enough into the squad. In the backs would definitely have had Lawrence in - Marchant's had a quieter season so far and is off to France at the end of it, so I'd have gone for Ollie. I also still believe in Big Ratu Joe, although I know that's not a universally shared opinion. I wouldn't have gone back to Daly either, but I suspect with Nowell and May being dropped and Watson picking up another injury that Borthwick didn't want to head into the tournament with two uncapped wingers inked in to start, and therefore it seems like a reasonable enough pick.

I mean, Daly has been in ridiculous form. His game at the weekend made it almost impossible not to select him - he's gone away after being dropped and come back even stronger.

Otherwise, Ribbans for Isiekwe, VRR for Mako seem fairly universal opinions - I wouldn't drop a 7 for Hill, I'd drop Simmonds who has been underwhelming. Ludlam and Willis are more than capable of covering 8 in the event of something happening to Dombrandt.

Apart from those, it's a relatively uncontentious squad. Good start by the BigWick.

Puja

Similar deckchairs different ship builder same captain.

Ribbans is the only really odd omission. Faz as skipper is just annoying. And prob at 12 to….boot.

Nah, I reckon we've got Faz at 10, with Smith coming on as a game-changer. Wouldn't be what I'd select, but we could do far worse.

Puja

[Gloskarlos]

As expected. Typically tigers centric in a few places where I think there are better options elsewhere (Heyes, Chesum, Cole, Ben Youngs ffs), but no absolute howlers. Not hugely exciting either though, partly due to injury though I guess. Genge as captain for me. Wouldn’t be playing Lawes in any back row position personally so making him vice captain inspires little confidence unless he’s due to be back to lock.

[francoisfou]

I mean, Daly has been in ridiculous form. His game at the weekend made it almost impossible not to select him - he's gone away after being dropped and come back even stronger.

Otherwise, Ribbans for Isiekwe, VRR for Mako seem fairly universal opinions - I wouldn't drop a 7 for Hill, I'd drop Simmonds who has been underwhelming. Ludlam and Willis are more than capable of covering 8 in the event of something happening to Dombrandt.

Apart from those, it's a relatively uncontentious squad. Good start by the BigWick.

Puja

Similar deckchairs different ship builder same captain.

Ribbans is the only really odd omission. Faz as skipper is just annoying. And prob at 12 to….boot.

Nah, I reckon we've got Faz at 10, with Smith coming on as a game-changer. Wouldn't be what I'd select, but we could do far worse.

Puja
[/quote)

..and then Farrell to 12

[Banquo]

I mean, Daly has been in ridiculous form. His game at the weekend made it almost impossible not to select him - he's gone away after being dropped and come back even stronger.

Otherwise, Ribbans for Isiekwe, VRR for Mako seem fairly universal opinions - I wouldn't drop a 7 for Hill, I'd drop Simmonds who has been underwhelming. Ludlam and Willis are more than capable of covering 8 in the event of something happening to Dombrandt.

Apart from those, it's a relatively uncontentious squad. Good start by the BigWick.

Puja

Similar deckchairs different ship builder same captain.

Ribbans is the only really odd omission. Faz as skipper is just annoying. And prob at 12 to….boot.

Nah, I reckon we've got Faz at 10, with Smith coming on as a game-changer. Wouldn't be what I'd select, but we could do far worse.

Puja

Tbh I’d be happier if he was at 10, but not as happy as if he were benched.

I’d hope DJ Stevie B would bin the game changer shyte

[Beasties]

Maybe he’s gonna do a Hartley captaincy and sub him, which he’s made a thing about the vice-cptains?

Nah, you’re right, I’m dreaming.

[Puja]

As expected. Typically tigers centric in a few places where I think there are better options elsewhere (Heyes, Chesum, Cole, Ben Youngs ffs), but no absolute howlers. Not hugely exciting either though, partly due to injury though I guess. Genge as captain for me. Wouldn’t be playing Lawes in any back row position personally so making him vice captain inspires little confidence unless he’s due to be back to lock.

Who would you have ahead of Heyes, Chessum, and Cole, out of interest (assuming we're saying Ribbans ahead of Isiekwe)?

Puja

[p/d]

Not too bothered with who he has and who he hasn't selected. For what it is worth I think he has done ok. I just care about is the upcoming 80 mins v Scotland and hoping to see an improvement on just hanging our arses out ready for a good spanking.

......... but if we do go into the weekend with Kelly and Manu fit yet Farrell wears the number 12 I shall be less than impressed with Big Stevie

[Gloskarlos]

As expected. Typically tigers centric in a few places where I think there are better options elsewhere (Heyes, Chesum, Cole, Ben Youngs ffs), but no absolute howlers. Not hugely exciting either though, partly due to injury though I guess. Genge as captain for me. Wouldn’t be playing Lawes in any back row position personally so making him vice captain inspires little confidence unless he’s due to be back to lock.

Who would you have ahead of Heyes, Chessum, and Cole, out of interest (assuming we're saying Ribbans ahead of Isiekwe)?

Puja

Chessum considered as lock or back row cover? If lock then Ribbans, if back row a number of others, ted hill, Tom Willis, barbeary, hell even Ackerman.

Tight head more difficult, wouldn’t have selected Cole regardless of prem form as it can only be the shortest of stop gap options and I differ from Borthwick there if that’s his plan. Heyes has struggled in Europe and whilst he’s young and possibly has some promise I just don’t think he’s close to international standard. That said deciding who ought to be there instead isn’t so easy as there aren’t many English players. Not sure VRR could be converted as Eddie had mooted. Will Stuart nearly recovered? Perhaps not enough.

[Which Tyler]

Chessum considered as lock or back row cover? If lock then Ribbans, if back row a number of others, ted hill, Tom Willis, barbeary, hell even Ackerman.

Barbeary would be one hell of a call!

[Stom]

Starting XV from that lot?

Genge, George, Sinckler
Itoje, Hill
Lawes, Willis, Dombrandt
Youngs, Smith
Daly, Manu, Marchant, Murley
Steward

Walker, Mako, Cole, Chessum, Curry, JvP, Farrell, Freeman

tried to be both pragmatic and hopeful. We all know the midfield will be: Smith, Farrell, Manu (subbed 20 for injury).

[Puja]

As expected. Typically tigers centric in a few places where I think there are better options elsewhere (Heyes, Chesum, Cole, Ben Youngs ffs), but no absolute howlers. Not hugely exciting either though, partly due to injury though I guess. Genge as captain for me. Wouldn’t be playing Lawes in any back row position personally so making him vice captain inspires little confidence unless he’s due to be back to lock.

Who would you have ahead of Heyes, Chessum, and Cole, out of interest (assuming we're saying Ribbans ahead of Isiekwe)?

Puja

Chessum considered as lock or back row cover? If lock then Ribbans, if back row a number of others, ted hill, Tom Willis, barbeary, hell even Ackerman.

Tight head more difficult, wouldn’t have selected Cole regardless of prem form as it can only be the shortest of stop gap options and I differ from Borthwick there if that’s his plan. Heyes has struggled in Europe and whilst he’s young and possibly has some promise I just don’t think he’s close to international standard. That said deciding who ought to be there instead isn’t so easy as there aren’t many English players. Not sure VRR could be converted as Eddie had mooted. Will Stuart nearly recovered? Perhaps not enough.

Chessum's a lock and should only really be considered there for England (and I don't believe has played anywhere else in his caps so far). I don't know I'd necessarily agree Ribbans is ahead, but either way, Isiekwe should make way first, so it's a moot point.

The tighthead one's the real thing that I'd object to - I accept your premise on both Cole and Heyes, but we are left with the simple question of who the hell else is there. Stuart's nowhere near coming back in time and beyond that, we're looking at who? Trevor Davidson?! No chance. We definitely can't convert a loosehead - that's as batty as Eddie's suggestion of BCurry as a 9 - switching sides and getting up to international level is a project that would take a year, bare minimum.

I'll take the shortest of stop gap options - Cole's a perfectly serviceable option as third choice till the end of the RWC. Hopefully after that, either Heyes will kick on or one of the age group lads will push through.

Puja

[Puja]

Starting XV from that lot?

Genge, George, Sinckler
Itoje, Hill
Lawes, Willis, Dombrandt
Youngs, Smith
Daly, Manu, Marchant, Murley
Steward

Walker, Mako, Cole, Chessum, Curry, JvP, Farrell, Freeman

tried to be both pragmatic and hopeful. We all know the midfield will be: Smith, Farrell, Manu (subbed 20 for injury).

Genge, George, Sinckler
Itoje, Lawes
Willis, BCurry, Dombrandt
JVP, Smith
Daly, Manu, Slade, Murley
Steward

McGuigan, Rodd, Cole, Chessum, Earl, Youngs, Farrell, Freeman

would be my personal pick, but I think Borthwick will pick Youngs/Farrell over JVP/Smith and I think there's a reasonable chance of him taking Kelly over Manu on the basis that they're so fond of him as a defensive leader.

Puja

[Gloskarlos]

Who would you have ahead of Heyes, Chessum, and Cole, out of interest (assuming we're saying Ribbans ahead of Isiekwe)?

Puja

Chessum considered as lock or back row cover? If lock then Ribbans, if back row a number of others, ted hill, Tom Willis, barbeary, hell even Ackerman.

Tight head more difficult, wouldn’t have selected Cole regardless of prem form as it can only be the shortest of stop gap options and I differ from Borthwick there if that’s his plan. Heyes has struggled in Europe and whilst he’s young and possibly has some promise I just don’t think he’s close to international standard. That said deciding who ought to be there instead isn’t so easy as there aren’t many English players. Not sure VRR could be converted as Eddie had mooted. Will Stuart nearly recovered? Perhaps not enough.

Chessum's a lock and should only really be considered there for England (and I don't believe has played anywhere else in his caps so far). I don't know I'd necessarily agree Ribbans is ahead, but either way, Isiekwe should make way first, so it's a moot point.

The tighthead one's the real thing that I'd object to - I accept your premise on both Cole and Heyes, but we are left with the simple question of who the hell else is there. Stuart's nowhere near coming back in time and beyond that, we're looking at who? Trevor Davidson?! No chance. We definitely can't convert a loosehead - that's as batty as Eddie's suggestion of BCurry as a 9 - switching sides and getting up to international level is a project that would take a year, bare minimum.

I'll take the shortest of stop gap options - Cole's a perfectly serviceable option as third choice till the end of the RWC. Hopefully after that, either Heyes will kick on or one of the age group lads will push through.

Puja

Glad you agree with the premise. The lack of EQP tightheads is something I’d not fully appreciated until researching earlier, Stuart’s injury I concede forces inclusion in the absence of literally nobody else. Eddie is batty, it was he who mooted VRR swapping sides. Chessum? Thought he’d played back row for Tigers a fair bit? Either way lawes should be the next lock In that squad, not much between Chessum and Isiekwe for me, so moot or not I’d have Ribbans ahead of both.

[FKAS]

Who would you have ahead of Heyes, Chessum, and Cole, out of interest (assuming we're saying Ribbans ahead of Isiekwe)?

Puja

Chessum considered as lock or back row cover? If lock then Ribbans, if back row a number of others, ted hill, Tom Willis, barbeary, hell even Ackerman.

Tight head more difficult, wouldn’t have selected Cole regardless of prem form as it can only be the shortest of stop gap options and I differ from Borthwick there if that’s his plan. Heyes has struggled in Europe and whilst he’s young and possibly has some promise I just don’t think he’s close to international standard. That said deciding who ought to be there instead isn’t so easy as there aren’t many English players. Not sure VRR could be converted as Eddie had mooted. Will Stuart nearly recovered? Perhaps not enough.

Chessum's a lock and should only really be considered there for England (and I don't believe has played anywhere else in his caps so far). I don't know I'd necessarily agree Ribbans is ahead, but either way, Isiekwe should make way first, so it's a moot point.

The tighthead one's the real thing that I'd object to - I accept your premise on both Cole and Heyes, but we are left with the simple question of who the hell else is there. Stuart's nowhere near coming back in time and beyond that, we're looking at who? Trevor Davidson?! No chance. We definitely can't convert a loosehead - that's as batty as Eddie's suggestion of BCurry as a 9 - switching sides and getting up to international level is a project that would take a year, bare minimum.

I'll take the shortest of stop gap options - Cole's a perfectly serviceable option as third choice till the end of the RWC. Hopefully after that, either Heyes will kick on or one of the age group lads will push through.

Puja

I'd also add that Heyes struggled in one European Game against a Welsh international loosehead who's bang in form. He then went and dominated at the scrum Vs Clermont in Clermont last weekend. He's a young guy, there's areas of his game that need improvement but as Puja says the list of alternatives is really short. The only one maybe worthy of a punt might have been Paul Hill at Saints.

I was a bit surprised by Borthwick's lock choices, particularly Isiekwe in and Ribbans out. Chessum's inclusion shouldn't really be a surprise being he's a great 19 option covering lock and in an emergency blindside doing so well under Eddie.

The selection could have been more Tigers centric it's not like Harry Wells has got a call up or Potter is starting on the wing.

[Puja]

Chessum considered as lock or back row cover? If lock then Ribbans, if back row a number of others, ted hill, Tom Willis, barbeary, hell even Ackerman.

Tight head more difficult, wouldn’t have selected Cole regardless of prem form as it can only be the shortest of stop gap options and I differ from Borthwick there if that’s his plan. Heyes has struggled in Europe and whilst he’s young and possibly has some promise I just don’t think he’s close to international standard. That said deciding who ought to be there instead isn’t so easy as there aren’t many English players. Not sure VRR could be converted as Eddie had mooted. Will Stuart nearly recovered? Perhaps not enough.

Chessum's a lock and should only really be considered there for England (and I don't believe has played anywhere else in his caps so far). I don't know I'd necessarily agree Ribbans is ahead, but either way, Isiekwe should make way first, so it's a moot point.

The tighthead one's the real thing that I'd object to - I accept your premise on both Cole and Heyes, but we are left with the simple question of who the hell else is there. Stuart's nowhere near coming back in time and beyond that, we're looking at who? Trevor Davidson?! No chance. We definitely can't convert a loosehead - that's as batty as Eddie's suggestion of BCurry as a 9 - switching sides and getting up to international level is a project that would take a year, bare minimum.

I'll take the shortest of stop gap options - Cole's a perfectly serviceable option as third choice till the end of the RWC. Hopefully after that, either Heyes will kick on or one of the age group lads will push through.

Puja

Glad you agree with the premise. The lack of EQP tightheads is something I’d not fully appreciated until researching earlier, Stuart’s injury I concede forces inclusion in the absence of literally nobody else. Eddie is batty, it was he who mooted VRR swapping sides. Chessum? Thought he’d played back row for Tigers a fair bit? Either way lawes should be the next lock In that squad, not much between Chessum and Isiekwe for me, so moot or not I’d have Ribbans ahead of both.

He has played a fair chunk of back row for Leicester (swapping between the second and back row pretty equally), but he's only been a lock for England so far, and I'm heartily of the opinion that he should stay there considering we have a tonne of back rows and very few locks who can do what Chessum did in the third test in Aus. We should absolutely not be crowbarring locks into the back row with the talent we have there.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

Is Lawes at lock really a thing anymore? He’s barely played there for 2 years hasn’t he? I guess it’s only really the scrum that is the concern, but the most recent SA pumping must surely still be fresh in the mind in that regard.

How much heft does Chessum offer? Ribbans or Tizard to push Hill would have made a lot more sense to me than Isiekwe.