RugbyRebels

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 12:23 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 11:57 am

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 10:55 am

The issue with any lines is always the cases that lie along the edges. What about the blatant knock on at the base that happened before the try-scoring pass, etc. Very easy for mission creep to happen.

Agreed that they are too involved right now, but I am beggared if I know where the line should be. One thing which I would be in favour of is giving them authority to just recommend a decision to the ref - we don't need the conversation and back and forth and the negotiations between TMO and ref. Just "There was a high tackle, some mitgation for dropping, yellow card for 10 Saracens," and we're done without the ref having to meander casually down the pitch to go look at a screen.

Puja

‘In the act of scoring a try’ will stop the mission creep. Refs will make mistakes, as players do, and if TMOs are required a hard line with only a very limited remit should be installed, imo.

I’m torn on TMO intervention for dangerous play, part of me thinks it should be dealt with after the game, but if it continues it does, as you say, need to be an instruction from the TMO rather than convening a 5min debate.

I remember the Leicester vs Northampton semi-final before TMOs were allowed to intervene on foul play, where Tuilagi got a yellow instead of a red for punching Ashton in the face, and Ashton got a yellow because he had been punched in the face. Everyone could see it was the wrong decision once the replays were shown, but the TMO wasn't allowed to intervene.

Puja

There will be thousands of examples for or against TMOs. It’s a question of which is the least worst. That said, I’m ambivalent about TMOs intervening on dangerous play. Happy either way.

Lads, just scrap the actual game altogther. Do it all as a computer game and none of this human intervention would be necessary.

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 2:11 pm Lads, just scrap the actual game altogther. Do it all as a computer game and none of this human intervention would be necessary.

Problem solved. Shall I lock the thread?

Puja

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 12:08 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 10:56 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 9:45 am

I don't agree, but as said before, the genie is out of the bottle. But rugby is not a game of perfect.

Perfect might not be attainable, but better certainly is and shouldn't be given up on.

Puja

Fair. But I don't think TMO's have made the game better.

Bet they've made it safer.

Maybe call it a draw once the in-play clock hits 90 minutes?

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 2:18 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 2:11 pm Lads, just scrap the actual game altogther. Do it all as a computer game and none of this human intervention would be necessary.

Problem solved. Shall I lock the thread?

Puja

And close the forum

morepork wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 3:20 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 12:08 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 10:56 am

Perfect might not be attainable, but better certainly is and shouldn't be given up on.

Puja

Fair. But I don't think TMO's have made the game better.

Bet they've made it safer.

Not convinced given the number of yellows and red still flying about and the ongoing dangerous unpunished clear outs.

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 4:41 pm

morepork wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 3:20 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 12:08 pm

Fair. But I don't think TMO's have made the game better.

Bet they've made it safer.

Not convinced given the number of yellows and red still flying about and the ongoing dangerous unpunished clear outs.

Should cheerleaders be reintroduced at each break in play

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 9:30 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 4:41 pm

morepork wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 3:20 pm

Bet they've made it safer.

Not convinced given the number of yellows and red still flying about and the ongoing dangerous unpunished clear outs.

Should cheerleaders be reintroduced at each break in play

Some games would never restart, depending on the quality of the cheerleaders. Which might not be a bad thing.

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 9:30 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 4:41 pm

morepork wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 3:20 pm

Bet they've made it safer.

Not convinced given the number of yellows and red still flying about and the ongoing dangerous unpunished clear outs.

Should cheerleaders be reintroduced at each break in play

Finally, a sensible suggestion.

All good points, but to get back to the specific point of the thread : Far too many forward passes in the game don't get called out now. The most blatant seem to be the case where a midfield back (usually a FH) turns the ball back inside to a support runner steaming up from the blind side. I would guess that many (most ?) passes in this situation now are forward, but don't look so because of the optics of the passer turning his body against the grain and seeming to pass back, and are rarely queried by the ref.
Also, support players frequently overrun the ball carrier and force the forward pass. This is something that can easily be cured by coaching (and ordinary common sense), but isn't.
Sadly, many professional rugby players are fairly dumb, even if good athletes.

Crikey you've just killed Sexton's entire career

Spiffy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 1:38 am All good points, but to get back to the specific point of the thread : Far too many forward passes in the game don't get called out now. The most blatant seem to be the case where a midfield back (usually a FH) turns the ball back inside to a support runner steaming up from the blind side. I would guess that many (most ?) passes in this situation now are forward, but don't look so because of the optics of the passer turning his body against the grain and seeming to pass back, and are rarely queried by the ref.
Also, support players frequently overrun the ball carrier and force the forward pass. This is something that can easily be cured by coaching (and ordinary common sense), but isn't.
Sadly, many professional rugby players are fairly dumb, even if good athletes.

Exactly, it doesn't matter (to me , anyway) how forward passes are being detected by the officials. The real problem is that they're not, or (per the DT article), officially being ignored.

Slippery slope.

In the NRL (not sure about Super League),the TMOs don't look at forward passes, presumably because they are often hard to judge. I think that is probably sensible, even if it is infuriating sometimes.

They also check every try but in the background. The ref makes a decision then while the kicker is getting ready a little box normally pops up saying 'try confirmed'. Otherwise, the ref gets a call that it needs to be checked (which almost always means overruled). Presumably the same happens in the background in union (i.e. the TMO has a quick look even if not asked to just in case there is something obvious, but there is something satisfying in seeing that the check is over).

The other thing they do is, like Puja says, the TMO just makes the decision. It can make the ref look a bit impotent and sometimes the decisions are bad, but it does speed things up and mean you don't have the two captains trying to sway the ref and the awkward backwards and forwards between the ref and TMO when they clearly disagree but don't want to say it.

Rugby league's use of the tmo is miles ahead of union. Although it helps that the situations are usually more clearly visible thanks to the nature of the game.