Lessons to be learned from the cricket culture review

[Oakboy]

If you're not a minority in any way, shape, or form, it can be really hard to notice, though. What if one of your teammates was secretly gay and all that homophobic banter hurt him really badly, he just couldn't speak up without outing himself...yet all that homophobic banter makes him feel like he woudn't be accepted.

That, I fully accept.

Fortunately, I've never seen such damaging effects at first hand. I've played in teams with gay players who were accepted with all-round comfort (that sounds clumsy but we were happy with the openness and so were they). In one case, a guy apparently happily married (to a woman) with kids switched to a male partner. That shocked some and caused gossip but I saw no evidence of unkindness directly towards him.

Maybe, I've just led a sheltered life.

I mean, that's the whole point - you wouldn't. You might not be present when the unkind things are said, you might not even notice that the thing said was unkind or write it off as banter that he laughed along with, because it isn't you that's the butt of the joke. And you can't tell whether he laughed along with a funny joke or laughed because he didn't want to be the guy who makes an issue or raises a fuss about a joke and the nightmare is to gather your courage and say, "Dude, not cool" and then nobody backs you. So you laugh and you swallow it down and when next preseason comes around, you decide you just don't fancy going back this year.

Puja

Fair point but I don't see what other members can do without hearing/seeing a problem. That was why I mentioned leadership earlier because voluntarily enforced club policy is presumably all that is left. I suppose, in the example that I mentioned, some of the considerable sympathy for the wife could have overflowed or been overheard but I saw/heard no instances that I felt were OTT or offensive. Eventually, the guy left and the wife continued her team-playing membership. I never heard that anything unpleasant led to his departure but I concede that some degree of awkwardness may have led to his decision. He was a navy L-Commander. He left the service to pursue a new career in wildlife photography and, as far as I know, geographical relocation was the main reason he left.

[Stom]

That, I fully accept.

Fortunately, I've never seen such damaging effects at first hand. I've played in teams with gay players who were accepted with all-round comfort (that sounds clumsy but we were happy with the openness and so were they). In one case, a guy apparently happily married (to a woman) with kids switched to a male partner. That shocked some and caused gossip but I saw no evidence of unkindness directly towards him.

Maybe, I've just led a sheltered life.

I mean, that's the whole point - you wouldn't. You might not be present when the unkind things are said, you might not even notice that the thing said was unkind or write it off as banter that he laughed along with, because it isn't you that's the butt of the joke. And you can't tell whether he laughed along with a funny joke or laughed because he didn't want to be the guy who makes an issue or raises a fuss about a joke and the nightmare is to gather your courage and say, "Dude, not cool" and then nobody backs you. So you laugh and you swallow it down and when next preseason comes around, you decide you just don't fancy going back this year.

Puja

Fair point but I don't see what other members can do without hearing/seeing a problem. That was why I mentioned leadership earlier because voluntarily enforced club policy is presumably all that is left. I suppose, in the example that I mentioned, some of the considerable sympathy for the wife could have overflowed or been overheard but I saw/heard no instances that I felt were OTT or offensive. Eventually, the guy left and the wife continued her team-playing membership. I never heard that anything unpleasant led to his departure but I concede that some degree of awkwardness may have led to his decision. He was a navy L-Commander. He left the service to pursue a new career in wildlife photography and, as far as I know, geographical relocation was the main reason he left.

Educate themselves.

That's what all this is about. Knowing and understanding other human beings and being aware of them as human beings, and not just as a part of a bigger group or concept.

I know I've tried to improve myself when it comes to understanding others and how they approach life, and I cannot expect the same of others, but I can recommend it.

[Mr Mwenda]

Here's an example away from rugby that may or may not be helpful but it was eye opening to me.

I am an academic and all the courses I've taught on provide students with an opportunity to give anonymous feedback. These are usually uninteresting but sometimes useful. Sometimes you get the odd disgruntled student who is impolite and angry but so it goes. As I only ever see the feedback aimed at me I always just assumed it's the same for everyone. However, it turns out that women lecturers receive huge amounts more abusive messages, much if it very personal in tone. This is just something that is known by women colleagues but male teachers (or myself at least) are largely oblivious to. As such, each year the anonymous feedback system transmits gender-based abusive messages invisibly to one section of the university staff. It's what I generally think of when I hear accounts of people not seeing reported abuse.

[morepork]

That, I fully accept.

Fortunately, I've never seen such damaging effects at first hand. I've played in teams with gay players who were accepted with all-round comfort (that sounds clumsy but we were happy with the openness and so were they). In one case, a guy apparently happily married (to a woman) with kids switched to a male partner. That shocked some and caused gossip but I saw no evidence of unkindness directly towards him.

Maybe, I've just led a sheltered life.

I mean, that's the whole point - you wouldn't. You might not be present when the unkind things are said, you might not even notice that the thing said was unkind or write it off as banter that he laughed along with, because it isn't you that's the butt of the joke. And you can't tell whether he laughed along with a funny joke or laughed because he didn't want to be the guy who makes an issue or raises a fuss about a joke and the nightmare is to gather your courage and say, "Dude, not cool" and then nobody backs you. So you laugh and you swallow it down and when next preseason comes around, you decide you just don't fancy going back this year.

Puja

Fair point but I don't see what other members can do without hearing/seeing a problem. That was why I mentioned leadership earlier because voluntarily enforced club policy is presumably all that is left. I suppose, in the example that I mentioned, some of the considerable sympathy for the wife could have overflowed or been overheard but I saw/heard no instances that I felt were OTT or offensive. Eventually, the guy left and the wife continued her team-playing membership. I never heard that anything unpleasant led to his departure but I concede that some degree of awkwardness may have led to his decision. He was a navy L-Commander. He left the service to pursue a new career in wildlife photography and, as far as I know, geographical relocation was the main reason he left.

Then those other members are pathologically tone deaf. I'm sympathetic to your own conciliatory tone, but I'm really struggling to see how you can't acknowledge that this is a human rights issue that needs addressing. It's right in our grubby little faces. Honestly baffled by your bafflement.

[Oakboy]

I mean, that's the whole point - you wouldn't. You might not be present when the unkind things are said, you might not even notice that the thing said was unkind or write it off as banter that he laughed along with, because it isn't you that's the butt of the joke. And you can't tell whether he laughed along with a funny joke or laughed because he didn't want to be the guy who makes an issue or raises a fuss about a joke and the nightmare is to gather your courage and say, "Dude, not cool" and then nobody backs you. So you laugh and you swallow it down and when next preseason comes around, you decide you just don't fancy going back this year.

Puja

Fair point but I don't see what other members can do without hearing/seeing a problem. That was why I mentioned leadership earlier because voluntarily enforced club policy is presumably all that is left. I suppose, in the example that I mentioned, some of the considerable sympathy for the wife could have overflowed or been overheard but I saw/heard no instances that I felt were OTT or offensive. Eventually, the guy left and the wife continued her team-playing membership. I never heard that anything unpleasant led to his departure but I concede that some degree of awkwardness may have led to his decision. He was a navy L-Commander. He left the service to pursue a new career in wildlife photography and, as far as I know, geographical relocation was the main reason he left.

Then those other members are pathologically tone deaf. I'm sympathetic to your own conciliatory tone, but I'm really struggling to see how you can't acknowledge that this is a human rights issue that needs addressing. It's right in our grubby little faces. Honestly baffled by your bafflement.

I'm running out of steam on this now. My point was that most of the members WERE sympathetic (not necessarily empathetic because it was a chunk of 'unknown') in principle but witnessed no out-of-order behaviour towards the guy that required intervention. There was certainly some surprise/shock that required individual and collective mental readjustment. Beyond that, though, what should members have done? Any open demonstration of 'support for John' would not have helped him particularly. We team-mates carried on as usual which is what he wanted. I have had no contact with him since he moved away (we weren't on Xmas card exchanging terms anyway). Frankly, I'd guess that he is comfortable with his memory of the members' general fellowship were he to look back now in hindsight but I'm unlikely to ever be able to confirm it. The last I heard he was piloting a helicopter in the Antarctic for some wildlife project.

[Mellsblue]

I did not see that last sentence coming!

[Oakboy]

I did not see that last sentence coming!

Lots of the navy guys around here were Fleet Air Arm, largely based at Yeovilton but some with historical links to Portland where there used to be a naval air base.

[twitchy]

The worst instance I remember was being 15/16 at an away match in south wales. Some parents in the crowd and some of the players were racially abusing a black lad on our team. Calling him a fucking you no what.

I remember looking directly at the ref right after one of these incidents and he met my gaze then looked down. He just seemed intimidated by the whole situation and did nothing.

Looking back we should have just all agreed to walk off the pitch but we were the kids in that situation. We were all thinking if the the parents are acting like this and the ref is doing nothing...? Bizarre situation.

So if that lad went home and told his parents/friends about this and they told other parents/friends you can see why they wouldn't want their kids playing the sport.

Hopefully this type of thing is just a relic now.