RugbyRebels

Adam_P wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 10:47 am Freeman>Steward. Justice for Tommy.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 10:35 am

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:35 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 8:27 am
Agreed.
Given how this England team plays, I like the idea of Smith at 15 assuming it’s a bit of a Hail Mary if we’re behind with 10/15 to go and we have Ford, not Farrell, at 10.
Tbh, I’ve seen enough of Borthball’s and Steward’s* limitations to have Malins at 15 vs Fiji with a view to him being the first choice 15.

*the oppo have worked him out: keep the high ball away from him and isolate him 1v1 with wingers in the wide channels.

Perhaps Slade did have a role to play after all

Yep, I’d rather have Slade at FB than Smith, but I’d rather have Smith in the 22 shirt than Slade, and I’d want pace in the 23 shirt over Slade.

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 10:51 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 10:35 am

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:35 am

Perhaps Slade did have a role to play after all

Yep, I’d rather have Slade at FB than Smith, but I’d rather have Smith in the 22 shirt than Slade, and I’d want pace in the 23 shirt over Slade.

I think I follow. Your preference would be Rich Lane?

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 10:50 am

Adam_P wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 10:47 am Freeman>Steward. Justice for Tommy.

Needs to leave Saints and play 15 regularly.

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:35 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 8:27 am

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 8:24 am

Cause if Smith is in the 22 shirt, then he becomes an unused substitute if Ford is playing well and we don't want to sub our fly half. He did look pretty good there last weekend, albeit in a lost cause.

Puja

Agreed.
Given how this England team plays, I like the idea of Smith at 15 assuming it’s a bit of a Hail Mary if we’re behind with 10/15 to go and we have Ford, not Farrell, at 10.
Tbh, I’ve seen enough of Borthball’s and Steward’s* limitations to have Malins at 15 vs Fiji with a view to him being the first choice 15.

*the oppo have worked him out: keep the high ball away from him and isolate him 1v1 with wingers in the wide channels.

Perhaps Slade did have a role to play after all

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:20 am

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:35 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 8:27 am
Agreed.
Given how this England team plays, I like the idea of Smith at 15 assuming it’s a bit of a Hail Mary if we’re behind with 10/15 to go and we have Ford, not Farrell, at 10.
Tbh, I’ve seen enough of Borthball’s and Steward’s* limitations to have Malins at 15 vs Fiji with a view to him being the first choice 15.

*the oppo have worked him out: keep the high ball away from him and isolate him 1v1 with wingers in the wide channels.

Perhaps Slade did have a role to play after all

I'd rather have Smith at full-back than Slade covering 10 in a fully fledged international. I'd bring back Furbank before I'd be keen on that.

Puja

twitchy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:13 am lol

twitchy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:13 am lol

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:21 am

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:20 am

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:35 am

Perhaps Slade did have a role to play after all

I'd rather have Smith at full-back than Slade covering 10 in a fully fledged international. I'd bring back Furbank before I'd be keen on that.

Puja

Stop it, you tease.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:15 am

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 10:50 am

Adam_P wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 10:47 am Freeman>Steward. Justice for Tommy.

Needs to leave Saints and play 15 regularly.

Or win the 15 job. Tbh, from the little I see of Saints, he does spend quite a bit of time at 15 whilst Furbank weaves his magic at the gainline. Staying fit for an entire season is probably his best route to England caps.
If we’re all being honest, all 15 candidates are placeholding if Arundell reaches his potential. That said, if Stoic Backwardstep is still in charge I can see him being scared off picking him by the thought of him scoring tries.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:26 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:21 am

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:20 am

I'd rather have Smith at full-back than Slade covering 10 in a fully fledged international. I'd bring back Furbank before I'd be keen on that.

Puja

Stop it, you tease.

What is the case for Ford at 10 ahead of Smith based on what we have seen in the warm-ups? I think Smith 10, Ford 22 is what the opposition would least like to see.

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:24 am

twitchy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:13 am lol

Just reading through this and I have to say that this doesn't look like a particularly legal tackle from BillyV early on:



Puja

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:35 am Bit bemused by Smith for 15 convo; has he ever started there for anyone? Anyone seen him under a high ball, or positionally at 15 against a top team. How is his timing hitting the line from there?

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:24 am

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:35 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:26 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:21 am
Stop it, you tease.

What is the case for Ford at 10 ahead of Smith based on what we have seen in the warm-ups? I think Smith 10, Ford 22 is what the opposition would least like to see.

Ford has been at the centre of just about everything good in the backline for England so far - admittedly, there's not been much, but on the rare occasions when we've threatened, it's been either him doing it or him directing it. He's also got a vast amount of experience and game-management ability which is important in knock-out games and which I don't think Smith has yet.

As a secondary thing, Smith is a very useful player to have on the bench as a change-up. He might be more error-prone and less good at controlling a game than Ford, but he's also who we can turn to if we need a spark. Ford at 22 is just fly-half cover and a wasted subs space if the 10 has a good game/doesn't get injured.

Puja

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:35 am Bit bemused by Smith for 15 convo; has he ever started there for anyone? Anyone seen him under a high ball, or positionally at 15 against a top team. How is his timing hitting the line from there?

Gloskarlos wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:38 am

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:24 am

twitchy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:13 am lol

Just reading through this and I have to say that this doesn't look like a particularly legal tackle from BillyV early on:



Puja

Billy, Jamie and Maro all in with a chance of a yellow in that scenario. Far too close to head on head by all three.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:49 am

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:35 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:26 am

What is the case for Ford at 10 ahead of Smith based on what we have seen in the warm-ups? I think Smith 10, Ford 22 is what the opposition would least like to see.

Ford has been at the centre of just about everything good in the backline for England so far - admittedly, there's not been much, but on the rare occasions when we've threatened, it's been either him doing it or him directing it. He's also got a vast amount of experience and game-management ability which is important in knock-out games and which I don't think Smith has yet.

As a secondary thing, Smith is a very useful player to have on the bench as a change-up. He might be more error-prone and less good at controlling a game than Ford, but he's also who we can turn to if we need a spark. Ford at 22 is just fly-half cover and a wasted subs space if the 10 has a good game/doesn't get injured.

Puja

Fair enough. I think that is a pessimistic approach: Ford, the safe, experienced option should be OK but if he's not bring on Smith to rescue it. Might the optimistic approach be to start with Smith, get a good lead and bring Ford on to manage the game through to victory? In the same cause, I'd start with Mitchell and have one of the veterans in the 21 shirt.

I accept that Ford has been tidy and central to the one or two half-decent attacking moves so far. And, the backs have scored 0 tries! Desperation is just around the corner.

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:33 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:15 am

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 10:50 am

Needs to leave Saints and play 15 regularly.

Or win the 15 job. Tbh, from the little I see of Saints, he does spend quite a bit of time at 15 whilst Furbank weaves his magic at the gainline. Staying fit for an entire season is probably his best route to England caps.
If we’re all being honest, all 15 candidates are placeholding if Arundell reaches his potential. That said, if Stoic Backwardstep is still in charge I can see him being scared off picking him by the thought of him scoring tries.

He was fit most of this season I think (19 games), and played well generally.

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 12:02 pm

Gloskarlos wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:38 am

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:24 am

Just reading through this and I have to say that this doesn't look like a particularly legal tackle from BillyV early on:



Puja

Billy, Jamie and Maro all in with a chance of a yellow in that scenario. Far too close to head on head by all three.

And Daly would have been if hadn't run sideways trying to get there to assist.

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:39 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:35 am Bit bemused by Smith for 15 convo; has he ever started there for anyone? Anyone seen him under a high ball, or positionally at 15 against a top team. How is his timing hitting the line from there?

He's good under a high ball for Quins - they often stand him back there. Positioning, I don't think we really know anything on that. Ideally, this is the sort of experiment that would be launched in the 2nd or 3rd year of a RWC cycle, rather than the 3rd game of the RWC warmups, but I'm intrigued to see if it works. There's been weirder positional shifts at international level (cf our historical inability to pick a regular 12 at 12).

Puja