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Re: England vs Argentina
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2023 8:22 pm
by Mellsblue
Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 6:28 pm
jngf wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 5:11 pm
Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 1:51 pm
Have Lawes, Curry, Earl started together before out of interest?
Not very much of a no.8 option there - I would add Ludlam or Martin to the mix but would have Curry to start in place of Lawes at 6 in a heartbeat - though I agree with the sentiment of benching him, he’s not really an impact player in the way Lawes or Earl would be.
If you are trying to add an 8 to the mix, not sure how that does it. Ludlam has 5 senior starts there, not sure Martin has at senior level.
Semantics.
Re: England vs Argentina
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2023 8:24 pm
by Mellsblue
Danno wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 3:44 pm
can't even afford a decent tailor.
The suits were an absolute disgrace whilst also proving me wrong when thinking, after losing to Fiji, ‘at least it can’t get any worse’…
Re: England vs Argentina
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2023 8:32 pm
by Puja
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 8:22 pm
Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 6:28 pm
jngf wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 5:11 pm
Not very much of a no.8 option there - I would add Ludlam or Martin to the mix but would have Curry to start in place of Lawes at 6 in a heartbeat - though I agree with the sentiment of benching him, he’s not really an impact player in the way Lawes or Earl would be.
If you are trying to add an 8 to the mix, not sure how that does it. Ludlam has 5 senior starts there, not sure Martin has at senior level.
Semantics.
Does that mean that Curry has the most starts at no 8 in the squad, aside from BillyV? Surely his sojourn there under Eddie was more than 5 games?
Puja
Re: England vs Argentina
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2023 9:11 pm
by p/d
I assume Daly is our most capped fb …….. but let’s not wander down that road.
Re: England vs Argentina
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2023 9:19 pm
by p/d
The stubbornness of not bringing T Willis in when the second door of opportunity arose is really starting to boil my p……
Ben bloody Earl.
Re: England vs Argentina
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2023 11:16 pm
by Lizard
You just know that, given the draw, even if England lose this they will still shit their way to at least a semi-final.
Re: England vs Argentina
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2023 11:35 pm
by Danno
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 8:24 pm
Danno wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 3:44 pm
can't even afford a decent tailor.
The suits were an absolute disgrace whilst also proving me wrong when thinking, after losing to Fiji, ‘at least it can’t get any worse’…
Properly embarassing. It's between that and Ireland's weird clap thing for worst visual at the ceremony, but I think we finally win something.
Re: England vs Argentina
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2023 11:41 pm
by Danno
To save anyone the bother: absolutely nothing you didn't already know if you know what shape the ****ing ball is. This stuff always winds me up
Re: England vs Argentina
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 12:23 am
by Puja
Lizard wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 11:16 pm
You just know that, given the draw, even if England lose this they will still shit their way to at least a semi-final.
If we can't beat Argentina, then I'm not convinced of our hopes of beating Aus/Wal/Fiji in the quarters.
Puja
Re: England vs Argentina
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 12:31 am
by Danno
Puja wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 12:23 am
Lizard wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 11:16 pm
You just know that, given the draw, even if England lose this they will still shit their way to at least a semi-final.
If we can't beat Argentina, then I'm not convinced of our hopes of beating Aus/Wal/Fiji in the quarters.
Puja
Genuinely surprised anyone thinks we have enough to beat Argentina
Re: England vs Argentina
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 12:42 am
by Puja
Danno wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 12:31 am
Puja wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 12:23 am
Lizard wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 11:16 pm
You just know that, given the draw, even if England lose this they will still shit their way to at least a semi-final.
If we can't beat Argentina, then I'm not convinced of our hopes of beating Aus/Wal/Fiji in the quarters.
Puja
Genuinely surprised anyone thinks we have enough to beat Argentina
We definitely have enough in terms of quality available to us, even if we're just looking at the XV that we'll actually field. These are decent players that we're currently making look like donkeys - they've shown that in previous England teams and in European club competition.
Whether we'll actually use them to fire a shot or two is the problem, and if we don't do something other than "try not to lose", then we'll definitely not have enough.
Puja
Re: England vs Argentina
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 12:47 am
by Danno
Puja wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 12:42 am
Danno wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 12:31 am
Puja wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 12:23 am
If we can't beat Argentina, then I'm not convinced of our hopes of beating Aus/Wal/Fiji in the quarters.
Puja
Genuinely surprised anyone thinks we have enough to beat Argentina
We definitely have enough in terms of quality available to us, even if we're just looking at the XV that we'll actually field. These are decent players that we're currently making look like donkeys - they've shown that in previous England teams and in European club competition.
Whether we'll actually use them to fire a shot or two is the problem, and if we don't do something other than "try not to lose", then we'll definitely not have enough.
Puja
Well. Yes. That's largely my point but I failed to express it. Arg are actually, you know, coached, so it should be a bit of a procession on Saturday unless we seriously shake things up
Re: England vs Argentina
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 3:37 am
by Lizard
At least in 2015 it was other members of the Empire that got you turfed out, what? Be a bally shame to get the old "Heave Ho, tickets please" from a bunch of shifty dagoes and dodgy orientals who probably don't even have the common courtesy to speak English.
God Save the King and all who sail in him.
Re: England vs Argentina
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 6:49 am
by rjjb
Puja wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 12:42 am
Danno wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 12:31 am
Puja wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 12:23 am
If we can't beat Argentina, then I'm not convinced of our hopes of beating Aus/Wal/Fiji in the quarters.
Puja
Genuinely surprised anyone thinks we have enough to beat Argentina
We definitely have enough in terms of quality available to us, even if we're just looking at the XV that we'll actually field. These are decent players that we're currently making look like donkeys - they've shown that in previous England teams and in European club competition.
Whether we'll actually use them to fire a shot or two is the problem, and if we don't do something other than "try not to lose", then we'll definitely not have enough.
Puja
I think the problem with your argument there is the word "previous". There are a number of players in this putative team who are basically living on past glories.
Re: England vs Argentina
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 7:27 am
by Mikey Brown
Arg are considerably better than Aus/Wal/Fiji, no? Wouldn’t be impossible to lose this first game and then progress?
As much as I’m now revelling in England’s failure I do think it’s possible that the tournament starting flips a switch in the players and we see something far more effective. I’m not ruling it out, I’m just tired that our idea of a “cycle” now seems to forgive any amount of awful, non-entertainment in between tournaments.
It does seems strange that we have so many players technically within their peak years that seem to be completely past it. Something to Cipriani’s suggestion of Jones’s 7 year flogging taking effect? I know blaming Jones for everything would be a nice outcome.
Re: England vs Argentina
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 8:01 am
by Oakboy
Argentina used to be a good set of forwards and an ordinary set of backs. Now, they are a pretty solid XV playing, usually, to the best of their collective ability. Sounds a plan to follow. Our best SHOULD be better than their best but will it be on Saturday?
Can our coaching crew out-coach theirs on the day? Whilst it would shock a fair few of us, would it not be great to get behind such an event, for once?
Re: England vs Argentina
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 9:25 am
by Beasties
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 7:27 am
Arg are considerably better than Aus/Wal/Fiji, no? Wouldn’t be impossible to lose this first game and then progress?
As much as I’m now revelling in England’s failure I do think it’s possible that the tournament starting flips a switch in the players and we see something far more effective. I’m
Not ruling it out, I’m just tired that our idea of a “cycle” now seems to forgive any amount of awful, non-entertainment in between tournaments.
It does seems strange that we have so many players technically within their peak years that seem to be completely past it. Something to Cipriani’s suggestion of Jones’s 7 year flogging taking effect? I know blaming Jones for everything would be a nice outcome.
I feel like I’ve been flogged for 5+ years and I’ve only watched Eng. imagine being a player…
Re: England vs Argentina
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 9:27 am
by fivepointer
I have a feeling - a hope - that we are going to see a different England. Not a great England but one that will be good enough to muddle through this group and possibly a QF.
Sure we've been awful but even these coaches can surely get something more out of a group of players, that maybe arent world beaters, but do have the capacity to play at a much higher level than what we've seen.
I'm going to be upbeat and cling to the belief that we can raise our game.
Re: England vs Argentina
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 9:30 am
by Gloskarlos
Anyone else heading to Marseille this weekend? city packs were a good option. Looking forward to finding a bar with a buzz for the opening ceremony tomorrow night, whether England have enough to put one on Argentina I have little faith in, but I'm ambivalent/pragmatic now and just looking forward to the atmosphere. Sunday Scotland V SA, could be a good match. Fly home Monday night, kidneys and liver in anguish. Can't wait.
Re: England vs Argentina
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:19 am
by p/d
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 7:27 am
Arg are considerably better than Aus/Wal/Fiji, ...........
Christ!! that reminds me of something but I cannot for the life of me put my finger on it.
Re: England vs Argentina
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:33 am
by Puja
Team announcement at 3pm today.
Puja
Re: England vs Argentina
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 11:14 am
by Danno
Puja wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:33 am
Team announcement at 3pm today.
Puja
How many fitness tests are we waiting on
Re: England vs Argentina
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 11:41 am
by Mellsblue
Danno wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 11:14 am
Puja wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:33 am
Team announcement at 3pm today.
Puja
How many fitness tests are we waiting on
Four:
Borthwick
Sinfield
Wigglesworth
Harrison
The results are due 21st October at the latest. Interim results are that they aren’t fit for purpose…
Re: England vs Argentina
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 1:44 pm
by jngf
Any bets for a lopsided back row with Lawes sticking out of one flank like the Burj Khalifa and a microscopic sized no.8 ?
Re: England vs Argentina
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 2:23 pm
by Mikey Brown
I mean it probably will be lopsided, yes, but I feel like your fixation on heights and weights is bordering on OCD?
