Quarter finals

[Which Tyler]

Ireland v NZ - Wayne Barnes

He He

[Mikey Brown]

The refs for the QFs have been announced:

England v Fiji - Mathieu Raynal
Ireland v NZ - Wayne Barnes
Wales v Argentina - Jaco Peyper
France v South Africa - Ben O'Keefe

Can we presume that one of these will be in charge of the final?

I'm surprised that Jaco Peyper is even at the World Cup, and he's been chosen for a QF!

Suspect that Barnes gets the final unless England win their next two games. Would have liked to see the Georgian lad get one, he was good.

Yeah would happily have seen him ahead of Piper or Ken O’Beefe. I guess for a young ref, under the pressure and scrutiny refs currently are, it might be a sensible move in the long term.

[paddy no 11]

The Georgian lad is the best going

[Son of Mathonwy]

This could be a very tight game and go either way. Ireland are probably the better organized team of the two,but if NZ click they can beat any team on the day. They are particularly dangerous on the counter attack and have a back three that can shred opponents (with McKenzie to be sprung off the bench.) Ireland would be smart to hang on to possession, keep the ball in hand and avoid loose box kicking that simply gives it away and lets the ABs run at them.
I'd say that the four best teams - NZ/SA/France/Ireland are all around the same high standard at the moment, there is not much in it, they are way ahead of the others and any could win the tournament. A shame that two of them will exit in the quarters because of the stupid seeding/pool make up in this RWC.

One positive about the ridiculous draw is that the top 4 ranked teams will play each other more during the course of the competition, making for a much better opening match than we would have seen otherwise and a fair chance of the winner having to have played the other 3 top teams to do it, rather than just 2 of them. It gives us more big clashes and spreads them through the tournament but makes the semis poor and is totally unfair on some unlucky teams. It does give us Fiji in the last 8 though, which should be a great thing because, as ITV keeps explaining to us, they're everyone's second favourite team.

Hmm. Doesn’t seem like a massive positive IMO (funny that, as a Scotland supporter) when you’re guaranteed to lose top teams from the knockout stages in place of objectively inferior ones.

Agreed, it's a joke of a system. I'm just trying to see the positives. It's like, in the first couple of rounds of Wimbledon it's a blessing to have some top player coming back from injury with a wildcard taking on the seeds. But yeah of course it's been awful for Scotland and will be for 2 of those top 4 ranked teams on the weekend.

[Puja]

Is that the narrative? Beating England, Wales (I know) and Australia is still a big deal, no? Are they not huge upsets to have in quick succession, given their inconsistency over the years?

I quite liked the way Flatman spoke about their narrow victory over Georgia, saying it was great to see them still getting the win when playing poorly and having a new level of expectation on them. Portugal beating them was considered a huge upset in its own right.

I suppose Flatman is one of the more level-headed pundits and that might not be representative of the rest of them.

I think the issue is encapsulated in the minor furore after Australia lost and the pundits were on the Australian television condemning them and saying "There's no way we should ever be losing to Fiji," resulting in Raiwalui pointing out that Fiji were ranked higher than Australia and so, rather than being an inconceivable upset and a disgrace for the Australians, it was in fact just a game going to form. Even when they're demonstrably a very good team, the majority of reporting still treat them as "plucky little Fiji" who are lucky to have a puncher's chance.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

Is that the narrative? Beating England, Wales (I know) and Australia is still a big deal, no? Are they not huge upsets to have in quick succession, given their inconsistency over the years?

I quite liked the way Flatman spoke about their narrow victory over Georgia, saying it was great to see them still getting the win when playing poorly and having a new level of expectation on them. Portugal beating them was considered a huge upset in its own right.

I suppose Flatman is one of the more level-headed pundits and that might not be representative of the rest of them.

I think the issue is encapsulated in the minor furore after Australia lost and the pundits were on the Australian television condemning them and saying "There's no way we should ever be losing to Fiji," resulting in Raiwalui pointing out that Fiji were ranked higher than Australia and so, rather than being an inconceivable upset and a disgrace for the Australians, it was in fact just a game going to form. Even when they're demonstrably a very good team, the majority of reporting still treat them as "plucky little Fiji" who are lucky to have a puncher's chance.

Puja

Fair enough, I guess. It sounds like the same attitude a lot of English fans and press have whenever we lose a game to be honest. I’m not sure how much it’s overrating your own side or underrating all opposition.

It’s funny how frequently we all reference the world rankings these days given they were seen largely as a joke for such a long time.

[J Dory]

I'm still hoping for an ABs v France final. Would love to see Fiji roll England then give France a fright in the semi. I think this will be the first QFs where I try to watch every game.

[morepork]

A perverse, somewhat depressing motivation for participation, but I'll take it.

[francoisfou]

Antoine Dupont has been training with the first choice squad and seems set to be in the starting XV on Sunday, and it is said that a decision will be made at the end of the week if he'll be wearing a protective mask or not.

Laurent Labit, one of the coaches has said that Dupont wouldn't be considered if he wasn't 100% fit.

Good news. Allez les Bleus!

[Which Tyler]

Great news, and exactly on the expected timeline.

[Beasties]

Ireland are going to be tough x 10. They have our number (as do SA and France), but we can conceivably pull it off. This is a big test for the ABs which is an acknowledgement of Ireland being the best side on the planet currently. I just hope we fire a few shots off no matter the result. It's better to burn out than fade away. We need a nuanced bench, meaning we need people on the bench that can fire shots. I'm all out of metaphor.

Considering the diet of thin gruel us Eng fans have been served up, the matches in prospect are utterly mouth-watering. I’m not even ruling NZ out, you can beat anyone on a given day.

It will kind of be a relief when Eng fall by the wayside and we can concentrate on proper rugby. It’s the trampled hope that kills.

[Beasties]

Is that the narrative? Beating England, Wales (I know) and Australia is still a big deal, no? Are they not huge upsets to have in quick succession, given their inconsistency over the years?

I quite liked the way Flatman spoke about their narrow victory over Georgia, saying it was great to see them still getting the win when playing poorly and having a new level of expectation on them. Portugal beating them was considered a huge upset in its own right.

I suppose Flatman is one of the more level-headed pundits and that might not be representative of the rest of them.

One of is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

[Numbers]

It's patronising. At least there is less of the "South Sea Islander" tag line in the commentary.

I'm not sure about this, they say that due to Fiji's style of throwing the ball about (not so much now they have become more structured), there's nothing patronising about it if anything it's a compliment to their talents, it's like Brazil being touted as everyone's second favourite football team..

However I would contend that Portugal have played the most entertaining rugby we've seen in this comp.

Hmm. If it was just about throwing the ball around, then New Zealand would be everyone's second favourite team. I'd say it's more due to the perception of them as "plucky little Fiji" who are struggling against all the odds, which is more than a little bit patronising.

Puja

There are a lot of teams with few resources like Fiji so not sure how that stacks up with them being everyone's favourite 2nd team, surely they could pick any underdog team judging by your theory, I don't think it holds much water, Wales have been referred to as plucky losers on dozens of occassions and you don't seem to be getting your knickers in a twist about that..ditto Scotland and Italy, regarding the English media don't they just seem to think that if they lose then it must be because of their performance everytime rather than the fact they were just beaten, the same goes for any team that is deemed favourites it appears to me, the Aus media are just as bad if not worse and also the Welsh media which is just horrific.

However, I don't read the press much as they just serve up the same drivel time and again, there's very little which is insightful.

[Puja]

It’s funny how frequently we all reference the world rankings these days given they were seen largely as a joke for such a long time.

I always liked them a lot - to my mind, they've always been pretty accurate of the actual situation. The only thing I don't much care for is the doubling of points in RWC matches - I think it can lead to too big a swing based on a one-off match.

Puja

[morepork]

The Georgian lad is the best going

He's great isn't he? The shit he doesn't take at scrums is refreshing.

[Banquo]

Great news, and exactly on the expected timeline.

yes, but suspect its more keeping SA guessing than reality.

[Son of Mathonwy]

It’s funny how frequently we all reference the world rankings these days given they were seen largely as a joke for such a long time.

I always liked them a lot - to my mind, they've always been pretty accurate of the actual situation. The only thing I don't much care for is the doubling of points in RWC matches - I think it can lead to too big a swing based on a one-off match.

Puja

Agreed. Although I also think too many points are exchanged for narrow results.

An ideal system for me would give a prediction for the margin of victory (given the difference in ranking points) and then reward/punish teams depending on how the actual margin differed from the prediction. That would mean that a winning strong team would still lose points to a weak team if the result was unexpectedly close.

There's also a case for reducing the points transfers for friendlies.

[Puja]

It’s funny how frequently we all reference the world rankings these days given they were seen largely as a joke for such a long time.

I always liked them a lot - to my mind, they've always been pretty accurate of the actual situation. The only thing I don't much care for is the doubling of points in RWC matches - I think it can lead to too big a swing based on a one-off match.

Puja

Agreed. Although I also think too many points are exchanged for narrow results.

An ideal system for me would give a prediction for the margin of victory (given the difference in ranking points) and then reward/punish teams depending on how the actual margin differed from the prediction. That would mean that a winning strong team would still lose points to a weak team if the result was unexpectedly close.

There's also a case for reducing the points transfers for friendlies.

Eh - I can see the argument for it, but personally I appreciate the rankings taking the position that a close loss is a loss and deserves no reward.

Puja

[francoisfou]

The Georgian lad is the best going

He's great isn't he? The shit he doesn't take at scrums is refreshing.

Yes, and telling O'Mahoney to wash his mouth out was very refreshing!

[Son of Mathonwy]

I always liked them a lot - to my mind, they've always been pretty accurate of the actual situation. The only thing I don't much care for is the doubling of points in RWC matches - I think it can lead to too big a swing based on a one-off match.

Puja

Agreed. Although I also think too many points are exchanged for narrow results.

An ideal system for me would give a prediction for the margin of victory (given the difference in ranking points) and then reward/punish teams depending on how the actual margin differed from the prediction. That would mean that a winning strong team would still lose points to a weak team if the result was unexpectedly close.

There's also a case for reducing the points transfers for friendlies.

Eh - I can see the argument for it, but personally I appreciate the rankings taking the position that a close loss is a loss and deserves no reward.

Puja

Still haunted by England's last game, eh?

[Puja]

Agreed. Although I also think too many points are exchanged for narrow results.

An ideal system for me would give a prediction for the margin of victory (given the difference in ranking points) and then reward/punish teams depending on how the actual margin differed from the prediction. That would mean that a winning strong team would still lose points to a weak team if the result was unexpectedly close.

There's also a case for reducing the points transfers for friendlies.

Eh - I can see the argument for it, but personally I appreciate the rankings taking the position that a close loss is a loss and deserves no reward.

Puja

Still haunted by England's last game, eh?

A win's a win!

Puja

[switchskier]

Warren Garland today:

You didn't hear us complaining in 2015 about Fiji, Australia and England and ourselves in the same pool, we didn't complain about that," said Gatland at a news conference.


Warren Garland in 2015:

Everyone is making a thing about the first home country to hold a World Cup to miss out on the quarter-finals but the stupid thing, as we all know, is why was the World Cup draw done three years ago? That’s just ridiculous as far as I am concerned. If they had followed the football model, then we wouldn’t be in this position

[Cameo]

Warren Garland today:

You didn't hear us complaining in 2015 about Fiji, Australia and England and ourselves in the same pool, we didn't complain about that," said Gatland at a news conference.


Warren Garland in 2015:

Everyone is making a thing about the first home country to hold a World Cup to miss out on the quarter-finals but the stupid thing, as we all know, is why was the World Cup draw done three years ago? That’s just ridiculous as far as I am concerned. If they had followed the football model, then we wouldn’t be in this position

Haha - self awareness is not his thing.

[Banquo]

South Africa team v France


South Africa: Willemse; Arendse, Kriel, De Allende, Kolbe; Libbok, Reinach; Kitshoff, Mbonambi, Malherbe, Etzebeth, Mostert, Kolisi (capt), Du Toit, Vermeulen.

Replacements: Fourie, Nche, Koch, Snyman, Smith, De Klerk, Pollard, Le Roux.

[Numbers]

Warren Garland today:

You didn't hear us complaining in 2015 about Fiji, Australia and England and ourselves in the same pool, we didn't complain about that," said Gatland at a news conference.


Warren Garland in 2015:

Everyone is making a thing about the first home country to hold a World Cup to miss out on the quarter-finals but the stupid thing, as we all know, is why was the World Cup draw done three years ago? That’s just ridiculous as far as I am concerned. If they had followed the football model, then we wouldn’t be in this position

It would appear that the comment was made after we had already qualified so I suppose he's complaining on England's behalf..