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Re: Team for Argentina

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:19 am
by Oakboy
Mikey Brown wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:02 am
Galfon wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 7:30 am Consensus seems to be with Dan, Lawrence and Arundell starting, but for the rest Sgt. Bilko will probs. play safe. Agree sentiment shoild not play part in selection.
Consensus where? Here? Or are there some hints from training bibs circulating?

Just read a pulsating Telegraph article where a bunch of journos named their teams. Pretty much entirely the same 23, with a few votes for those guys and Billy V dropping out (of most, but not all!) of the squad.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... -play-off/

Truly thrilling stuff.
Sentimental guff from most of them. 'Youngs deserves a send-off', for example. Having checked who really wants to play, SB should think more about the future than the past with his selection.

Re: Team for Argentina

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 10:11 am
by FKAS
Oakboy wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:19 am
Mikey Brown wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:02 am
Galfon wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 7:30 am Consensus seems to be with Dan, Lawrence and Arundell starting, but for the rest Sgt. Bilko will probs. play safe. Agree sentiment shoild not play part in selection.
Consensus where? Here? Or are there some hints from training bibs circulating?

Just read a pulsating Telegraph article where a bunch of journos named their teams. Pretty much entirely the same 23, with a few votes for those guys and Billy V dropping out (of most, but not all!) of the squad.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... -play-off/

Truly thrilling stuff.
Sentimental guff from most of them. 'Youngs deserves a send-off', for example. Having checked who really wants to play, SB should think more about the future than the past with his selection.
I'd agree. Borthwick's starting XV should be all players he anticipates featuring heavily in the 6N. There could be chance for say Lawes or Youngs to get their final bows from the bench maybe but emphasis should be on the guys that are sticking around.

I suspect Borthwick will select a team to win and the 23 that he thinks will best deliver his tactics over the 80 mins as normal as opposed to sentimentality or a particular future focus though.

Re: Team for Argentina

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 10:11 am
by Mellsblue
Oakboy wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:19 am
Mikey Brown wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:02 am
Galfon wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 7:30 am Consensus seems to be with Dan, Lawrence and Arundell starting, but for the rest Sgt. Bilko will probs. play safe. Agree sentiment shoild not play part in selection.
Consensus where? Here? Or are there some hints from training bibs circulating?

Just read a pulsating Telegraph article where a bunch of journos named their teams. Pretty much entirely the same 23, with a few votes for those guys and Billy V dropping out (of most, but not all!) of the squad.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... -play-off/

Truly thrilling stuff.
Sentimental guff from most of them. 'Youngs deserves a send-off', for example. Having checked who really wants to play, SB should think more about the future than the past with his selection.
Who do you think doesn’t want to play?

Re: Team for Argentina

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 10:52 am
by fivepointer
Borthwick will surely pick the team that he thinks has the best chance of winning the game. That is bound to include players for whom it will be their swansong and may exclude players who will be in the team post WC.

Re: Team for Argentina

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 10:55 am
by Banquo
fivepointer wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 10:52 am Borthwick will surely pick the team that he thinks has the best chance of winning the game. That is bound to include players for whom it will be their swansong and may exclude players who will be in the team post WC.
Should be a meritocracy, that has to be the right team culture. No sentiment or presentiment- because of the ranking points, and because its an international game (even if no one likes the principle) it has to be treated with the right level of respect.

Re: Team for Argentina

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:00 am
by rjjb
Smith, Steward & Arundell back three according to Will Kelleher.....

Re: Team for Argentina

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:05 am
by Mellsblue
rjjb wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:00 am Smith, Steward & Arundell back three according to Will Kelleher.....
The Nose giveth with one hand and punches you in the balls with the other.

Re: Team for Argentina

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:07 am
by Banquo
rjjb wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:00 am Smith, Steward & Arundell back three according to Will Kelleher.....
weird

Re: Team for Argentina

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:08 am
by Oakboy
Mellsblue wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 10:11 am
Oakboy wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:19 am
Mikey Brown wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:02 am

Consensus where? Here? Or are there some hints from training bibs circulating?

Just read a pulsating Telegraph article where a bunch of journos named their teams. Pretty much entirely the same 23, with a few votes for those guys and Billy V dropping out (of most, but not all!) of the squad.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... -play-off/

Truly thrilling stuff.
Sentimental guff from most of them. 'Youngs deserves a send-off', for example. Having checked who really wants to play, SB should think more about the future than the past with his selection.
Who do you think doesn’t want to play?
No idea from anything reported but players' minds must already be switching to club duty. Might George, for example, think he has done enough and not wish to risk injury?

Re: Team for Argentina

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:12 am
by rjjb
Banquo wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:07 am
rjjb wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:00 am Smith, Steward & Arundell back three according to Will Kelleher.....
weird
Don't like it personally. Distinct whiff of trying to crowbar (favourite word now!) Steward & Smith into the team. And Steward doesn't have a winger's pace or agility.

Re: Team for Argentina

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:14 am
by Banquo
Fck me- the RFU want us to do selection now :)

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/artic ... -argentina

Re: Team for Argentina

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:26 am
by Mellsblue
Oakboy wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:08 am
Mellsblue wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 10:11 am
Oakboy wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:19 am

Sentimental guff from most of them. 'Youngs deserves a send-off', for example. Having checked who really wants to play, SB should think more about the future than the past with his selection.
Who do you think doesn’t want to play?
No idea from anything reported but players' minds must already be switching to club duty. Might George, for example, think he has done enough and not wish to risk injury?
I doubt there’s a single player in the squad that doesn’t want to play.

Re: Team for Argentina

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:31 am
by Oakboy
Mellsblue wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:26 am
Oakboy wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:08 am
Mellsblue wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 10:11 am

Who do you think doesn’t want to play?
No idea from anything reported but players' minds must already be switching to club duty. Might George, for example, think he has done enough and not wish to risk injury?
I doubt there’s a single player in the squad that doesn’t want to play.
Maybe, there's nobody who would risk saying they did not want to. But I'd guess that if they could choose between the match taking place or going home any members of the public on the ferry ramp would be trampled underfoot.

Re: Team for Argentina

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:33 am
by Banquo
Banquo wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:14 am Fck me- the RFU want us to do selection now :)

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/artic ... -argentina
Just looking quickly at the %ages the team would look like (adjusting for positional double counts)

Genge
George
Cole
Itoje
Lawes
Martin
Curry
Earl
Mitchell
Arundell
Daly
Marchant
Arundell (:) -- May
Arundell (:) -- Steward

Re: Team for Argentina

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 12:34 pm
by FKAS
England: Smith; Steward, Marchant, Tuilagi, Arundell; Farrell (capt), Youngs; Genge, Dan, Stuart, Itoje, Chessum, Curry, Underhill, Earl.

Replacements: George, Rodd, Cole, Ribbans, Ludlam, Care, Ford, Lawrence.

Well it's a bit of a change up.

Re: Team for Argentina

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 12:38 pm
by Oakboy
Why is George on the bench and not Walker?

Re: Team for Argentina

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 12:39 pm
by jngf
Underhill back at 7 ! - Swash Butler I could 💋 you - that cheques in the post btw ;)

Re: Team for Argentina

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 12:46 pm
by jngf
Ommpa, Ommpa, stick that up ya junta!!!! :)

Re: Team for Argentina

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 12:51 pm
by Puja
That is certainly a XV of some shape or description. Seems to be an attempt to give game time to everyone who's not had much at the RWC so far, which I suppose is a fair approach. (ETA - I had forgotten about the existence of Jack Walker, although in my defence, it appears that Steel Bandersnatch has as well).

No swansong for Courtney - could be down to the player himself preferring to go out on an important game where he played well, rather than in this nothing match? I will admit, I'm quite looking forward to seeing Cunderhearl in action.

Puja

Re: Team for Argentina

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 12:54 pm
by jngf
FKAS wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 12:34 pm England: Smith; Steward, Marchant, Tuilagi, Arundell; Farrell (capt), Youngs; Genge, Dan, Stuart, Itoje, Chessum, Curry, Underhill, Earl.

Replacements: George, Rodd, Cole, Ribbans, Ludlam, Care, Ford, Lawrence.

Well it's a bit of a change up.
Billy been sent on an RFU all expenses paid trip to health farm?

Re: Team for Argentina

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 12:55 pm
by Danno
Banquo wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:14 am Fck me- the RFU want us to do selection now :)

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/artic ... -argentina
It's about bloody time

Re: Team for Argentina

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 1:06 pm
by Mellsblue
Oakboy wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:31 am
Mellsblue wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:26 am
Oakboy wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:08 am

No idea from anything reported but players' minds must already be switching to club duty. Might George, for example, think he has done enough and not wish to risk injury?
I doubt there’s a single player in the squad that doesn’t want to play.
Maybe, there's nobody who would risk saying they did not want to. But I'd guess that if they could choose between the match taking place or going home any members of the public on the ferry ramp would be trampled underfoot.
You’ve moved the goalposts to a fiction but even if that scenario were real, knowing how pro athletes are wired, I reckon they’d all want to finish the tournament on a win.

Re: Team for Argentina

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 1:13 pm
by Mellsblue
Eerrghh.
I don’t like the Smith experiment or Steward on the wing. Youngs is surely a sentimental pick, unless Mitchell is injured, which has no place in pro sport, if it is. Martin should have been allowed to backup his performance from last week, assuming he’s not injured. Not sure of the thinking behind how Underhill has been handled over the last four months or his selection for this weekend.
Glad to see Arundell and Dan start, but surely the latter should be in his preferred position. The backs look like muddied thinking again.
Is Malins the only player not to feature in a match day squad?

Re: Team for Argentina

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 1:18 pm
by Mikey Brown
Feels weird that we won't see Lawes again.

Underhill's reappearance ahead of Ludlam seems strange too, but maybe there have been fitness concerns there? Though I'm never unhappy to see him in the team if he can keep his head out of harms way. Shame not see Martin again but Ribbans is decent, even if it's a bit weird with him leaving for France.

Youngs? Well obviously.

Nothing to discuss regarding that back three.

Re: Team for Argentina

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 1:23 pm
by Insouciant
Weird looking team in terms of possible justifications for selections. It's definitely nice to see Underhill and Arundell get a run out, although given the half backs, will Arundell see the ball? Ludlam could be starting for Curry but that back row does look pretty good. Thought Lawrence might get a start. Steward probably deserved a rest and I'm guessing is there to support Smith with the high ball. Smith at 15 has potential, he does have something - but how you squeeze it into a team with our current captain starting (and 10) is not instantly obvious. Also, poor overlooked George Ford with his 'different role' of bench warmer.

After last week, I'm interested in the front row. How will that go & how will the replacements fit in? Stuart hasn't shone at all. Dan looks a decent prospect. It's one of the areas we seem to be lacking depth/talent. Feel a bit for Walker - it's a bit grim for him to get so little time but it must be part of the plan as Swiftly Bucephalus is a tactical genius (apparently).