RugbyRebels

Posted: **Sat Mar 15, 2025 11:37 pm**

Yep. Seeing Brown look like proper option is a big win.

Posted: **Sun Mar 16, 2025 6:53 pm**

Not much to add really. Felt we played decently but it also the match showed that France are a much better team than us. We were really having to push it in a way that was unlikely to be sustainable all match. Fun to watch Russell really give it a go though.

Question is how different our front 5 and bench looks in a year's time. Always hard to predict how long it will taje for young guns to become established. Normally happens slowly then suddenly.

Posted: **Sun Mar 16, 2025 8:45 pm**

Cameo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 16, 2025 6:53 pm Question is how different our front 5 and bench looks in a year's time.

Well put.

Posted: **Mon Mar 17, 2025 9:50 am**

I don't think Russell understands or cares about the impacts of poor execution has on the team

The missed kicks against England, the missed touch penalties the high wire switch to darcy, maybe he's happy with it but I think he let's the team down and its not OK just because ye don't have a better option

Sure he creates plenty but it'd be great if he played an international match where he doesn't give back 10 points to the opposition

Posted: **Mon Mar 17, 2025 10:20 am**

Can't say I've seen any "not care"ing or even "not understand"ing from him in the last few years - club or country.

Posted: **Mon Mar 17, 2025 11:12 am**

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 17, 2025 9:50 am I don't think Russell understands or cares about the impacts of poor execution has on the team

The missed kicks against England, the missed touch penalties the high wire switch to darcy, maybe he's happy with it but I think he let's the team down and its not OK just because ye don't have a better option

Sure he creates plenty but it'd be great if he played an international match where he doesn't give back 10 points to the opposition

utter nonsense. Russell cares - after an error (and what 10 does not make errors, a bit of fantasy thinking needed). Watch his face after the France game. Watch his face after he was subbed V Wales and we fell away. No player in any team works harder off the filed in analysis and he does that because he cares.

There was one pass caused a try v France. Its debatable if that was Russell or Graham over running a planned play . Graham scored off another planned play and pass by Russell, and dropped yet another

Posted: **Mon Mar 17, 2025 11:26 am**

It doesn't always have to be a highwire act

Throwing a post game gurning face doesn't mean the penny has dropped to me, I'd like him to turn the oceans of ability into more effective performance

I would love to see him playing great for the lions

Posted: **Mon Mar 17, 2025 11:29 am**

Yeah I don’t know how people arrive at that kind of maths. The amount he creates vs most other fly-halves is ridiculous.

He does make some bad errors, and this certainly wasn’t his best 6 nations overall, but he doesn’t often have the luxury of a team/pack that can simply choose to win the game another way.

I’d love to see him completely cut out the errors. At which point I’d call him clearly the best 10 in the world.

Posted: **Mon Mar 17, 2025 12:16 pm**

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Mar 17, 2025 11:29 am Yeah I don’t know how people arrive at that kind of maths. The amount he creates vs most other fly-halves is ridiculous.

He does make some bad errors, and this certainly wasn’t his best 6 nations overall, but he doesn’t often have the luxury of a team/pack that can simply choose to win the game another way.

I’d love to see him completely cut out the errors. At which point I’d call him clearly the best 10 in the world.

He gave 2 unforced turnovers to the best winger in the world which resulted in 14 points directly - the maths is sound

100% aligned with the rest of what you write

Posted: **Mon Mar 17, 2025 12:34 pm**

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 17, 2025 12:16 pm
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Mar 17, 2025 11:29 am Yeah I don’t know how people arrive at that kind of maths. The amount he creates vs most other fly-halves is ridiculous.

He does make some bad errors, and this certainly wasn’t his best 6 nations overall, but he doesn’t often have the luxury of a team/pack that can simply choose to win the game another way.

I’d love to see him completely cut out the errors. At which point I’d call him clearly the best 10 in the world.
He gave 2 unforced turnovers to the best winger in the world which resulted in 14 points directly - the maths is sound

100% aligned with the rest of what you write

You said it would be great if he could play a match without gifting 10 points, as if he does it all the time.

It feels like part of that same lazy rhetoric that labels certain players as mavericks, gifting multiple tries for every chance they create, and solid 10s like Farrell and Biggar as completely error free, even if they don’t really try/create much.

Posted: **Mon Mar 17, 2025 12:49 pm**

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Mar 17, 2025 12:34 pm
paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 17, 2025 12:16 pm
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Mar 17, 2025 11:29 am Yeah I don’t know how people arrive at that kind of maths. The amount he creates vs most other fly-halves is ridiculous.

He does make some bad errors, and this certainly wasn’t his best 6 nations overall, but he doesn’t often have the luxury of a team/pack that can simply choose to win the game another way.

I’d love to see him completely cut out the errors. At which point I’d call him clearly the best 10 in the world.
He gave 2 unforced turnovers to the best winger in the world which resulted in 14 points directly - the maths is sound

100% aligned with the rest of what you write
You said it would be great if he could play a match without gifting 10 points, as if he does it all the time.

It feels like part of that same lazy rhetoric that labels certain players as mavericks, gifting multiple tries for every chance they create, and solid 10s like Farrell and Biggar as completely error free, even if they don’t really try/create much.

I can only conclude that is what it is. Coupled with an expected onslaught from across the Irish sea to shoehorn Prenderghastly into the Lions squad; a player who makes way more errors, as does Crowley, as does M Smith (and all 3 couldn't tackle a sausage roll).

Posted: **Mon Mar 17, 2025 1:44 pm**

Moving away from picking on Russell, I do find myself surprised reading some of the responses to the game. I was expecting there to be some more frustration here*. I thought Scotland had the French rocking on their heels and a couple of unforced errors then swung the momentum of the match. It annoyed me and I am no Scotland fan.

*Obviously, kudos to you all for acting like grown ups over a game!

Posted: **Mon Mar 17, 2025 2:34 pm**

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Mon Mar 17, 2025 1:44 pm Moving away from picking on Russell, I do find myself surprised reading some of the responses to the game. I was expecting there to be some more frustration here*. I thought Scotland had the French rocking on their heels and a couple of unforced errors then swung the momentum of the match. It annoyed me and I am no Scotland fan.

*Obviously, kudos to you all for acting like grown ups over a game!

Maybe there would be if it didn’t feel so inevitable as a Scotland fan? This is just sort of what I expect to happen. Even in the Wales game being 30 points up and fully in charge, it felt correct somehow that Wales then racked up 20+ unanswered points.

Long stretches of pressure in attack somehow become 7 points conceded. Laws you’ve never seen enforced in a game in your life suddenly becoming important to a referee when Scotland do it. An offside deserves equal punishment to a direct, intentional headbutt to the face. It’s all just part of the glory of being an arrogant Scottish fan with ideas above your station.

To be clear that Russell/Graham moment was poor, and it did feel like a big turning point in momentum as well as scoreline. The mental thing you feel as a fan (and I sense from the team in general, though you can never really know) is that this moment would come eventually, in one form another. There’s always something like that and better teams seem to be able to ride it out.

I was really pleased with how the pack fronted up. Similar to South Africa we actually looked a physical match for large portions of the game, but weren’t clinical enough elsewhere.

There are too many glaring issues with the coaching setup (including clubs), player numbers/depth and the mental side of it to be too annoyed about yet another 4th place finish.

Posted: **Mon Mar 17, 2025 3:58 pm**

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Mon Mar 17, 2025 1:44 pm Moving away from picking on Russell, I do find myself surprised reading some of the responses to the game. I was expecting there to be some more frustration here*. I thought Scotland had the French rocking on their heels and a couple of unforced errors then swung the momentum of the match. It annoyed me and I am no Scotland fan.

*Obviously, kudos to you all for acting like grown ups over a game!

I think you need to factor in that pre this game no-one - and I mean no-one expected a Scotland win. The only people who thought they could win were the team and coaches and they knew what a big ask that would be. The France of their last 2 matches would beat anyone. Their fit of dropsies at Twickers was not going to be repeated.
So what was a terrific performance was I guess a surprise for most. Personally I think we have had France's number for a few years now, even if we haven't exactly always beaten them - we have the game to challenge them in ways others can't. France have both a huge pack and a terrific set of backs. Its quite a combination

Posted: **Mon Mar 17, 2025 5:09 pm**

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Mon Mar 17, 2025 1:44 pm Moving away from picking on Russell, I do find myself surprised reading some of the responses to the game. I was expecting there to be some more frustration here*. I thought Scotland had the French rocking on their heels and a couple of unforced errors then swung the momentum of the match. It annoyed me and I am no Scotland fan.

*Obviously, kudos to you all for acting like grown ups over a game!

I was certainly frustrated but I’ve been following the Scotland team since I was 9 (in 1971!) and this is what I’ve come to expect. Occasional fits of stunningly good play with a lot more mediocrity and a lack of consistency. I was actually happier with the Scotland performance after this defeat than I was with the win over Wales. England showed how poor this current Welsh team is and we should have kept our feet on their throat like England did, but it’s the Scottish Way to slacken off and let the opposition back in. Apart from the Grand Slam years in 1984 and 1990, and the 5N championship in 1999 (which would have been a Grand Slam if Logan had been a better kicker) that’s been the Scotland way for much of that period. As my wife could attest I still get emotionally caught up in games while they are on (luckily we don’t have a swear jar) but once it’s finished, I get over the frustration fairly quickly. C’est la vie.

Posted: **Mon Mar 17, 2025 5:54 pm**

I also think we all recognise that, contrary to what Paddy says, it did have to be a high wire act to get us there. We were playing at a crazy pace and Russell was swinging from side to side and getting the ball phase after phase. It would have been amazing if we had won, but to me at least it always seemed likely that we wouldn't be able to keep it up.

And the Russell stuff is nonsense. In what other game did he give up ten points? I hate the fact that someone enjoying life apparently means that they don't care. I've played plenty of games where I've been gutted about the result/performance but still been able to share a joke afterwards or appreciate it was a good game.

Posted: **Tue Mar 18, 2025 6:38 am**

BaldiePete wrote: ↑Mon Mar 17, 2025 5:09 pm
Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Mon Mar 17, 2025 1:44 pm Moving away from picking on Russell, I do find myself surprised reading some of the responses to the game. I was expecting there to be some more frustration here*. I thought Scotland had the French rocking on their heels and a couple of unforced errors then swung the momentum of the match. It annoyed me and I am no Scotland fan.

*Obviously, kudos to you all for acting like grown ups over a game!
I was certainly frustrated but I’ve been following the Scotland team since I was 9 (in 1971!) and this is what I’ve come to expect. Occasional fits of stunningly good play with a lot more mediocrity and a lack of consistency. I was actually happier with the Scotland performance after this defeat than I was with the win over Wales. England showed how poor this current Welsh team is and we should have kept our feet on their throat like England did, but it’s the Scottish Way to slacken off and let the opposition back in. Apart from the Grand Slam years in 1984 and 1990, and the 5N championship in 1999 (which would have been a Grand Slam if Logan had been a better kicker) that’s been the Scotland way for much of that period. As my wife could attest I still get emotionally caught up in games while they are on (luckily we don’t have a swear jar) but once it’s finished, I get over the frustration fairly quickly. C’est la vie.

Pete, it's like you've read my mind. I've been following scotland since 1986 and pretty much everything year we've proved two things: 1, when we get our shit together we can match anyone ans 2, we can't get, or at least keep our shit together for long enough to actually challenge for silverware over the course of a tournament. It's highly frustrating, but it's who we are.

On Russell... to argue that his mistakes don't cost his team territory, possession and points is pretty fucking daft when we can all see it happening. However, we can also see how much he adds to the team, the squad and the game and how Scotland wouldn't be the team they are without him. He's like the ultimate Scottish fly-half. Frustrating, sure, but we support him anyway cos the highs are worth the lows.

Posted: **Tue Mar 18, 2025 10:18 am**

Donny osmond wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 6:38 am
On Russell... to argue that his mistakes don't cost his team territory, possession and points is pretty fucking daft when we can all see it happening. However, we can also see how much he adds to the team, the squad and the game and how Scotland wouldn't be the team they are without him. He's like the ultimate Scottish fly-half. Frustrating, sure, but we support him anyway cos the highs are worth the lows.

name me a fly half who doesn't make mistakes? Or one whose mistakes do not cost their team territory or possession or points.
The Russell thing is the same old. He can be seen to grin after an error therefore he doesn't care. Its bollocks. He has a coping mechanism which works for him and allows him to move on to the next play - and unlike most of his peers, without going into a shell and/or repeating errors for a few touches. Top 2 inches is what makes great players great
Same as the Russell is a flaky goal kicker. Was said while he was at Glasgow, while he was at Racing and now at Bath and the 6N - yet he has been the top % kicker in all those competitions on at least one occasion. Some flake.
Same as the "Russell is a maverick" nonsense. A maverick who consistently performs at the highest level, in 3 different professional leagues, at international level, and in his sole Lions appearance. Some maverick

There is and has always been a desire in the media, and even in Scotland to portray any error as "I told you so". Some is an attempt to downplay Russell and promote their own nation's fly half. Some is just cheap click bait poor journalism. And up here its tall poppy syndrome

I've been watching rugby for well over 60 years. The only ten we had in all that time fit to lace Russell's boots was John Rutherford. Its so difficult to compare across the decades for many reasons but Russell is IMHO the better of the two. We are so fortunate to have him.

Posted: **Tue Mar 18, 2025 1:15 pm**

septic 9 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 10:18 am
Donny osmond wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 6:38 am
On Russell... to argue that his mistakes don't cost his team territory, possession and points is pretty fucking daft when we can all see it happening. However, we can also see how much he adds to the team, the squad and the game and how Scotland wouldn't be the team they are without him. He's like the ultimate Scottish fly-half. Frustrating, sure, but we support him anyway cos the highs are worth the lows.
name me a fly half who doesn't make mistakes? Or one whose mistakes do not cost their team territory or possession or points.
The Russell thing is the same old. He can be seen to grin after an error therefore he doesn't care. Its bollocks. He has a coping mechanism which works for him and allows him to move on to the next play - and unlike most of his peers, without going into a shell and/or repeating errors for a few touches. Top 2 inches is what makes great players great
Same as the Russell is a flaky goal kicker. Was said while he was at Glasgow, while he was at Racing and now at Bath and the 6N - yet he has been the top % kicker in all those competitions on at least one occasion. Some flake.
Same as the "Russell is a maverick" nonsense. A maverick who consistently performs at the highest level, in 3 different professional leagues, at international level, and in his sole Lions appearance. Some maverick

There is and has always been a desire in the media, and even in Scotland to portray any error as "I told you so". Some is an attempt to downplay Russell and promote their own nation's fly half. Some is just cheap click bait poor journalism. And up here its tall poppy syndrome

I've been watching rugby for well over 60 years. The only ten we had in all that time fit to lace Russell's boots was John Rutherford. Its so difficult to compare across the decades for many reasons but Russell is IMHO the better of the two. We are so fortunate to have him.

The flaky goalkicker thing is wild to me as well. Yes, you lost by 1 point against us and he missed three conversions, but the last two were on the edge of the touchline and the first wasn't in front of the posts - it's not like he was missing dozens of sitters. That's not to mention that you probably wouldn't've had the conversion attempts to miss if he hadn't been your fly-half.

Puja

Posted: **Tue Mar 18, 2025 5:11 pm**

Cameo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 16, 2025 6:53 pm Question is how different our front 5 and bench looks in a year's time. Always hard to predict how long it will taje for young guns to become established. Normally happens slowly then suddenly.

Pretty different.

Venter, another hooker or two, Cummings, Henderson, 2 or 3 Glasgow locks that weren't involved at the weekend. And that's just the ones that are of decent age.

Posted: **Tue Mar 18, 2025 5:15 pm**

I think sometimes people forget we ask Russell/rely on him playing right on the very edge.

Posted: **Tue Mar 18, 2025 6:36 pm**

Mauvaka cited. It’s a bit fucking late though isn’t it?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... gmv5732meo

Posted: **Tue Mar 18, 2025 7:14 pm**

I really thought the bunker was a great idea when it came in but doesn’t seem to be helping much.

Posted: **Tue Mar 18, 2025 8:33 pm**

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 7:14 pm I really thought the bunker was a great idea when it came in but doesn’t seem to be helping much.

the bunker only ever had 2 purposes, forget the spin about speeding up the game by avoiding having to watch dozens of replays
The first purpose was to avoid refs issuing red cards. That has worked. The second purpose was to give the bunker ample time to find a reason not to upgrade to red, to find the smallest iota of "mitigation". Some have been upgraded but that too has been hugely successful. Welfare of players at heart? My arse

Posted: **Thu Mar 20, 2025 9:33 am**

The 20min card has also allowed refs to shit the bed when a full red is merited.

RugbyRebels

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