England XV vs France XV

[Which Tyler]

Worth noting - Ted Hill actually plays that role for Bath, and trains for it week-in, week-out.

OK, so he's probably still knackered from last weekend, but would still seem like the more obvious option

[Mikey Brown]

Worth noting - Ted Hill actually plays that role for Bath, and trains for it week-in, week-out.

OK, so he's probably still knackered from last weekend, but would still seem like the more obvious option

Hill is rapid but I wouldn’t say the focus of his skill set is soft hands and beautiful running lines in the same way Dombrandt’s is. Odd when he’s not really pushing the first team for a spot anymore, but it would be a laugh to see.

Maybe it would work pretty well. How hard can it be to defend at 13 anyway?

[Danno]

Eddie Jones still has a lot to answer for.

[Banquo]

Eddie Jones still has a lot to answer for.

In what way this time?

Still the most successful England coach I believe

[Danno]

Eddie Jones still has a lot to answer for.

In what way this time?

Still the most successful England coach I believe

Slightly tongue in cheek reference to the positional bingo , albeit one which is a bit more valid right now when we have Atkinson, Dingwall, Beard, Ojomoh, Lawrence and yet Skid Rowward has Dombrandt training in the centres

[Banquo]

Eddie Jones still has a lot to answer for.

In what way this time?

Still the most successful England coach I believe

Slightly tongue in cheek reference to the positional bingo , albeit one which is a bit more valid right now when we have Atkinson, Dingwall, Beard, Ojomoh, Lawrence and yet Skid Rowward has Dombrandt training in the centres

Was Eddie doing this a lot- there was a period where he tried Marchant as a third centre off the wing, and had Steward playing wing. And Mike Brown on the wi....

fair point

[FKAS]

In what way this time?

Still the most successful England coach I believe

Slightly tongue in cheek reference to the positional bingo , albeit one which is a bit more valid right now when we have Atkinson, Dingwall, Beard, Ojomoh, Lawrence and yet Skid Rowward has Dombrandt training in the centres

Was Eddie doing this a lot- there was a period where he tried Marchant as a third centre off the wing, and had Steward playing wing. And Mike Brown on the wi....

fair point

Wasn't it Manu/Slade/Marchant as the three centres with Slade dropping into 15 occasionally and Marchant defending on the wing at the times he didn't. I was interested to see if he could get that working but he seemed to give up on it pretty quick.

[Banquo]

Slightly tongue in cheek reference to the positional bingo , albeit one which is a bit more valid right now when we have Atkinson, Dingwall, Beard, Ojomoh, Lawrence and yet Skid Rowward has Dombrandt training in the centres

Was Eddie doing this a lot- there was a period where he tried Marchant as a third centre off the wing, and had Steward playing wing. And Mike Brown on the wi....

fair point

Wasn't it Manu/Slade/Marchant as the three centres with Slade dropping into 15 occasionally and Marchant defending on the wing at the times he didn't. I was interested to see if he could get that working but he seemed to give up on it pretty quick.

Something like that, but Marchant certainly doing wing and third centre stuff. It wasnt quite dombrandt in midfield stuff.
iirc Jones had already dabbled with JJ doing similar?

[FKAS]

Was Eddie doing this a lot- there was a period where he tried Marchant as a third centre off the wing, and had Steward playing wing. And Mike Brown on the wi....

fair point

Wasn't it Manu/Slade/Marchant as the three centres with Slade dropping into 15 occasionally and Marchant defending on the wing at the times he didn't. I was interested to see if he could get that working but he seemed to give up on it pretty quick.

Something like that, but Marchant certainly doing wing and third centre stuff. It wasnt quite dombrandt in midfield stuff.
iirc Jones had already dabbled with JJ doing similar?

Maybe that's who I was thinking of in there with Manu and possibly Farrell as opposed to Slade at the time.

Yeah the three centres with two wing/fullbacks thing is an interesting idea. Wonder if any coach will be brave enough to rip up conventions and go for it.

[francoisfou]

Here's the French side with several uncapped players but some experienced players too, notably Leinster's Slimani who has 57 caps)

15. Attissogbe (Pau) ; 14. Moustin (Montpellier), 13. Gailleton (Pau), 12. Fickou (Racing cap.), 11. Duguivalu (Perpignan); 10. Hastoy (La Rochelle), 9. Le Garrec (Racing); 7. Tixeront (Clermont), 8. Guillard (Lyon), 6. Fischer (Clermont) ; 5. Duguid (Montpellier) , 4. Auradou (Pau) ; 3. Slimani (Leinster), 2. Barlot (Castres), 1. Erdocio (Montpellier)

Remplaçants : 16. Marchand (Lyon), 17. Mallez (Toulouse), 18. Bamba (Lyon), 19. Taofifenua (lyon), 20. Van Tonder (Perpignan), 21. Woki (Racing), 22. Jauneau (Clermont), 23. Berdeu (Lyon).

[Banquo]

Wasn't it Manu/Slade/Marchant as the three centres with Slade dropping into 15 occasionally and Marchant defending on the wing at the times he didn't. I was interested to see if he could get that working but he seemed to give up on it pretty quick.

Something like that, but Marchant certainly doing wing and third centre stuff. It wasnt quite dombrandt in midfield stuff.
iirc Jones had already dabbled with JJ doing similar?

Maybe that's who I was thinking of in there with Manu and possibly Farrell as opposed to Slade at the time.

Yeah the three centres with two wing/fullbacks thing is an interesting idea. Wonder if any coach will be brave enough to rip up conventions and go for it.

Yeah I may have confused myself initially cos Marchant played a lot on the wing in NZ and then a few times for Quins when he came back.

Its hot, need a beer!

Have to feel for the guys tomorrow as well- rugby at 33 degrees! I've played in the States at c 38 degrees, and that was a nightmare,

[Mikey Brown]

Have to feel for the guys tomorrow as well- rugby at 33 degrees! I've played in the States at c 38 degrees, and that was a nightmare,

Watching Slimani and George plodding about might be pretty funny though.

[FKAS]

Something like that, but Marchant certainly doing wing and third centre stuff. It wasnt quite dombrandt in midfield stuff.
iirc Jones had already dabbled with JJ doing similar?

Maybe that's who I was thinking of in there with Manu and possibly Farrell as opposed to Slade at the time.

Yeah the three centres with two wing/fullbacks thing is an interesting idea. Wonder if any coach will be brave enough to rip up conventions and go for it.

Yeah I may have confused myself initially cos Marchant played a lot on the wing in NZ and then a few times for Quins when he came back.

Its hot, need a beer!

Have to feel for the guys tomorrow as well- rugby at 33 degrees! I've played in the States at c 38 degrees, and that was a nightmare,

Amen

[Banquo]

Have to feel for the guys tomorrow as well- rugby at 33 degrees! I've played in the States at c 38 degrees, and that was a nightmare,

Watching Slimani and George plodding about might be pretty funny though.

Lol...mad fixture when you think about it.

[francoisfou]

Here's the French side with several uncapped players but some experienced players too, notably Leinster's Slimani who has 57 caps)

15. Attissogbe (Pau) ; 14. Moustin (Montpellier), 13. Gailleton (Pau), 12. Fickou (Racing cap.), 11. Duguivalu (Perpignan); 10. Hastoy (La Rochelle), 9. Le Garrec (Racing); 7. Tixeront (Clermont), 8. Guillard (Lyon), 6. Fischer (Clermont) ; 5. Duguid (Montpellier) , 4. Auradou (Pau) ; 3. Slimani (Leinster), 2. Barlot (Castres), 1. Erdocio (Montpellier)

Remplaçants : 16. Marchand (Lyon), 17. Mallez (Toulouse), 18. Bamba (Lyon), 19. Taofifenua (lyon), 20. Van Tonder (Perpignan), 21. Woki (Racing), 22. Jauneau (Clermont), 23. Berdeu (Lyon).

The replacement hooker Marchand is (I think) Julian’s brother Guillaume.

[jngf]

Anybody not selected for this Lions Tour has dodged a bullet / poison pill

[Danno]

Not really, it looks like we're going to get a shagging in Argentina

[Puja]

Anybody not selected for this Lions Tour has dodged a bullet / poison pill

Not really, it looks like we're going to get a shagging in Argentina

Hardly.

The Lions were a scratch side that'd had about a week and a half of training together, playing new systems, against an Argentina side that know each other well. They even played like the Barbarians as well - I lost track of the number of times they tried to force one too many offloads and ended up passing a 50:50 to an Argentine instead. They gifted at least two of Argentina's tries through simple fuckups from two players defaulting to the systems they're used to, and probably ruined about 10 pieces of good possession through flipping a blind pass to the place where they were expecting a teammate to be, not where he actually was. And that's not to mention all the attacking possession lost through simply not having a well-drilled and practiced lineout.

Play that game in 3 weeks time when the Lions have actually got the systems inculcated into the players and that's a Lions victory every day. Hells, if there'd been a slightly different rub of the green, then it could easily have been a Lions victory today, even with all of that.

That's not to say Argentina weren't good and won't be very tough opponents, but that result in no way makes them a team destined to give us a clumping.

Puja

[Danno]

"The Lions were a scratch side that'd had about a week and a half of training together, playing new systems, against an Argentina side that know each other well. "

And we'll be in a similar boat. Arg are missing about 8 first choices from the T14 and they'll be at home. If they get it together and we don't (and I am very sceptical) it could be an uncomfortable tour

I take your point on the missed opportunities; even if they'd just taken the three pens on offer at the sticks instead of the corner late in the game it would have been a likely win.

[Which Tyler]

Hardly.

The Lions were a scratch side that'd had about a week and a half of training together, playing new systems, against an Argentina side that know each other well. They even played like the Barbarians as well - I lost track of the number of times they tried to force one too many offloads and ended up passing a 50:50 to an Argentine instead. They gifted at least two of Argentina's tries through simple fuckups from two players defaulting to the systems they're used to, and probably ruined about 10 pieces of good possession through flipping a blind pass to the place where they were expecting a teammate to be, not where he actually was. And that's not to mention all the attacking possession lost through simply not having a well-drilled and practiced lineout.

Play that game in 3 weeks time when the Lions have actually got the systems inculcated into the players and that's a Lions victory every day. Hells, if there'd been a slightly different rub of the green, then it could easily have been a Lions victory today, even with all of that.

That's not to say Argentina weren't good and won't be very tough opponents, but that result in no way makes them a team destined to give us a clumping.

Puja

Hear hear
I'm seeing far too many posts of doom and gloom about the Lions tour on the back of that result, with no room for nuance.
"If they can't beat Argetina they'll never get close to Aus" etc etc.

It was a scratch team, with about 1/3 of the squad unavailable, and next to no time together to gel, trying to play a high-paced instinctive game,
without any instinctive understanding of each other*

Yesterday, they were a B&I baabaa.s team
That won't be the case when the tests come around

That said, I do fear for England over there - this Argentina side look well skilled and well drilled. England's squad looks skilled, but will also be pretty scratch - hopefully with enough maturity and experience together in the spine of the team to come through.
If the Lions don't take any more of ours, I'd expect a drawn series in Argentina, then cut loose against USA.

*NB: And what a refreshing change from the Gatland years, of a Lions team actually trying to play rugby, rather than just the lowest risk : lowest reward version of trying to keep in it and hoping for a moment of magic from sheer talent.

[fivepointer]

Dont think last night changes anything. Away in Argentina was never going to be an easy assignment. Its a challenge but we want that for our players who we want to see press on.

We'll be more together than the Lions, who were incredibly loose at times.

[Puja]

"The Lions were a scratch side that'd had about a week and a half of training together, playing new systems, against an Argentina side that know each other well. "

And we'll be in a similar boat. Arg are missing about 8 first choices from the T14 and they'll be at home. If they get it together and we don't (and I am very sceptical) it could be an uncomfortable tour.

Not really. We won't be trying to teach them a completely new system that they're completely unfamiliar with, but going back to something that the majority of the squad trained in all through the 6N, after having 3 weeks and a warmup game to get back into the swing of it.

Agreed it's going to be a very tough tour, but I'll be very disappointed if we take a drubbing.

Puja

[Mr Mwenda]

"The Lions were a scratch side that'd had about a week and a half of training together, playing new systems, against an Argentina side that know each other well. "

And we'll be in a similar boat. Arg are missing about 8 first choices from the T14 and they'll be at home. If they get it together and we don't (and I am very sceptical) it could be an uncomfortable tour.

Not really. We won't be trying to teach them a completely new system that they're completely unfamiliar with, but going back to something that the majority of the squad trained in all through the 6N, after having 3 weeks and a warmup game to get back into the swing of it.

Agreed it's going to be a very tough tour, but I'll be very disappointed if we take a drubbing.

Puja

It's also why players like Dombrandt are retained. Integration will be easier if there is a core well versed in the play book even if we think those players have had their chance.

[Danno]

"The Lions were a scratch side that'd had about a week and a half of training together, playing new systems, against an Argentina side that know each other well. "

And we'll be in a similar boat. Arg are missing about 8 first choices from the T14 and they'll be at home. If they get it together and we don't (and I am very sceptical) it could be an uncomfortable tour.

Not really. We won't be trying to teach them a completely new system that they're completely unfamiliar with, but going back to something that the majority of the squad trained in all through the 6N, after having 3 weeks and a warmup game to get back into the swing of it.

Agreed it's going to be a very tough tour, but I'll be very disappointed if we take a drubbing.

Puja

Always good to have an optimist around to bring me up a peg or two

[jngf]

Anybody not selected for this Lions Tour has dodged a bullet / poison pill

Not really, it looks like we're going to get a shagging in Argentina

Hardly.

The Lions were a scratch side that'd had about a week and a half of training together, playing new systems, against an Argentina side that know each other well. They even played like the Barbarians as well - I lost track of the number of times they tried to force one too many offloads and ended up passing a 50:50 to an Argentine instead. They gifted at least two of Argentina's tries through simple fuckups from two players defaulting to the systems they're used to, and probably ruined about 10 pieces of good possession through flipping a blind pass to the place where they were expecting a teammate to be, not where he actually was. And that's not to mention all the attacking possession lost through simply not having a well-drilled and practiced lineout.

Play that game in 3 weeks time when the Lions have actually got the systems inculcated into the players and that's a Lions victory every day. Hells, if there'd been a slightly different rub of the green, then it could easily have been a Lions victory today, even with all of that.

That's not to say Argentina weren't good and won't be very tough opponents, but that result in no way makes them a team destined to give us a clumping.

Puja

Think you’re looking at Lions’ potential with some Very Rose tinted spectacles there Puja - all I saw was a crap pub team in red shirts with inexplicably wonky shaped numbering