Does this seem evil?

[Digby]

The BBC will undoubtedly carry information that the government of the day wants it to, but its more of a nuanced relationship between the 2 parties. Comms officers in government will provide certain information and try to influence, but they can't dictate what to air and when. Thats the key difference. And if the BBC gets opposing information, it will normally run with it, unless there is a very good reason not to.

Personally, I don't trust the BBC 100%. It will edit news to cover what it thinks is important, journalists are human and will add some element of subjectivity, even unconsciously. But compared to other news outlets with far closer ties to their respective governments, they are generally far more reliable.

That both Labour and the Conservatives are so often unhappy with the Beeb tends to suggest they're not too far away with the spirit of their reporting, some of the content is a little doltish but that's a different thing

[UGagain]

BBC remains independent of the UK government, despite attempts at the contrary. RT just parrots Putin's latest soundbites. The blind support for the Crimean invasion for example, or the shooting down of the Malaysian airliner.

Oh please. Its entire foreign policy coverage is from embedded journalists pandering to whatever official sources tell them.

RT parrots Russian interests, the BBC parrots western interests. The support for the invasion of Syria, Libya, Iraq, for example.

Support for followed by hasty criticism of in the case of Iraq. I do recall RT coverage of events in Georgia when I was a peacekeeper there which was 180 degrees from reality. Suited the Russian audience though, and for the record the Gerogian equivalent was no better, but RT is just pumping out propaganda at the behest of the Russian government.

How about the views of a former employee:

The American journalist Liz Wahl became a hate figure after resigning from RT live on air in protest at its coverage of Russian intervention in Crimea.

“Much of the bullying came through social media trolling,” she told The Times. “RT’s strategy was to partner with ‘useful idiots’ that spread a false story about me that suggested I was part of a conspiracy where right-wing war hawks were controlling my actions as a provocation to denigrate Russia.

“Those with extreme anti-western views that buy into the RT narrative believed it. It led to accusations of being a ‘neocon’ and a slew of messages accusing me of being everything from a warmonger to a CIA operative to a Zionist puppet.

“It was an ongoing theme from RT’s far-left viewers. If one is perceived as not being sufficiently anti-western, the accusations eventually evolved to supporting US imperialism and western hegemony.”

Wahl, who was a Washington-based correspondent for the network, said that the abuse became crudely sexist and antisemitic, even though she is not Jewish.

“The dark and deranged language underscored the hatred and paranoia evoked by Russian media messaging,” she said.

During her on-air resignation in March 2014 Wahl told viewers that RT was not about the truth but promoting a Putinist agenda.

She says now: “The origins of the directives to reporters and producers were shrouded in secrecy. Generally stories got the green light if they painted the US or western countries in a negative light. There were some stories we were instructed to cover relentlessly — the Snowden revelations, WikiLeaks, Bradley Manning, various protest movements, Guantanamo Bay.

“Since I left RT, its reporting has become more skewed and more troublesome. The continued coverage of Ukraine, from MH17 to the conflict in eastern Ukraine, has been peppered with misleading information, manipulation and omission of critical facts.

“It operates under the guise of simply providing alternative news. However, the alternative viewpoints are broadcast when they serve to degrade the US and the West, and to deflect or distort stories that involve Russia or Russian allies. I am unsure why the Russian government finds it worth the investment. But expanding and promoting the Russian narrative seems to be a top priority.”

Another journalist, Sara Firth, resigned following her refusal to push propaganda following the shooting down of MH17.

Another interesting quote from the Times

RT has breached broadcasting rules 15 times, often by failing to be impartial, and was sanctioned last year by Ofcom over bias in its programme The Truthseeker. Ofcom ruled the channel to be in breach of impartiality rules in July for accusing Turkey of genocide against the Kurds and supporting Islamic State

How Cold War-Hungry Neocons Stage Managed RT Anchor Liz Wahl’s Resignation

Posted on Mar 19, 2014


The “Freedom selfie” from James Kirchick’s Twitter feed.

By Max Blumenthal and Rania Khalek

For her public act of protest against Russia Today’s coverage of the Russian invasion of Ukrainian territory and supposedly advancing the agenda of Vladimir Putin in Washington, D.C., previously unknown news anchor Liz Wahl has suddenly become one of the most famous unemployed people in America. After her on-air resignation from the cable news channel, Wahl appeared on the three major American cable news outlets—CNN, Fox News, MSNBC—to denounce the heavy-handed editorial line she claims her bosses imposed on her and other staffers.

“What’s clear is what’s happening right now amid this crisis is that RT is not about the truth,” she told CNN’s Anderson Cooper. “It’s about promoting a Putinist agenda. And I can tell you firsthand, it’s also about bashing America.”

Wahl’s act of defiance eventually earned her invitations from “The View” and “The Colbert Report,” offering her the opportunity to introduce millions of Americans to a Russian government-funded network whose Nielsen ratings have been too low to measure, but which commands a massive following on YouTube. Wahl was the toast of Washington, winning plaudits from a variety of prime-time pundits, from MSNBC’s Chris Hayes (“remarkably badass”) to the conservative Amanda Carpenter (“Liz Wahl is proud to be an American and in the last five minutes I think she made everyone else proud to be one, too.”)


The celebration of Wahl fed directly into a BuzzFeed expose on “How The Truth Is Made at Russia Today,” with writer Rosie Gray painting a portrait of an “atmosphere of censorship and pressure” on American staffers toiling in RT’s D.C. offices. RT had long been the subject of criticism and ridicule for its promotion of Zeitgeist-style trutherism and libertarian paranoia, but Wahl now placed RT under unprecedented scrutiny, with mainstream U.S. media sounding the alarm about a bulwark of soft Russian power situated just blocks from the White House.

Behind the coverage of Wahl’s dramatic protest, a cadre of neoconservatives was celebrating a public relations coup. Desperate to revive the Cold War, head off further cuts to the defense budget and restore the legitimacy they lost in the ruins of Iraq, the tightknit group of neoconservative writers and stewards had opened up a new PR front through Wahl’s resignation. And they succeeded with no shortage of help from an ossified media establishment struggling to maintain credibility in an increasingly anarchic online news environment. With isolated skeptics branded as useful idiots for Putin, the scene has been kept clean of neoconservative fingerprints, obscuring their interest in Wahl’s resignation and the broader push to deepen tensions with Russia.

Through interviews with six current RT employees—all Americans with no particular affection for Russian President Vladimir Putin or his policies—and an investigation into the political forces managing the spectacle, a story has emerged that stands in stark contrast to the one advanced by Wahl, her supporters and the mainstream American press.

It is the story, according to former colleagues, of an apolitical, deeply disgruntled employee seeking an exit strategy from a job where, sources say, she was disciplined for unprofessional behavior and had been demoted. Wahl did not return several voice and text messages sent to her cellphone.

At the center of the intrigue is a young neoconservative writer and activist who helped craft Wahl’s strategy and exploit her resignation to propel the agenda of a powerful pro-war lobby in Washington.

The story began at 5:07 p.m. Eastern time on March 5.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/how ... n_20140319

[UGagain]

Seems all the tired establishment talking points have been covered by the haters.

RT for all its faults hasn't to my knowledge been caught actually manufacturing pro-war propaganda like the BBC has.

Ofcom is a joke. It's like the police investigating the police.

The BBC is a propaganda factory. That's its role.

You're just putting glitter on a turd.

[Donny osmond]

"RT is not propaganda because I said so, and if they are caught propagandising and proselytising for a specific government, then clearly the fault lies with the institution that calls them out for it." Good to know.

For all your posturing about being woke as fuck, you seem to be far more sucked in than anyone else.

Don't know about RT but Russia is well known to be using news services to run black propaganda campaigns in the UK.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/legal-ok-st73lrtvk

"woke as fuck"... like it

Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk

[rowan]

"RT is not propaganda because I said so, and if they are caught propagandising and proselytising for a specific government, then clearly the fault lies with the institution that calls them out for it." Good to know.

For all your posturing about being woke as fuck, you seem to be far more sucked in than anyone else.

Don't know about RT but Russia is well known to be using news services to run black propaganda campaigns in the UK.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/legal-ok-st73lrtvk

"woke as fuck"... like it

Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk

British propaganda about Russian propaganda about Britain. That's the world we live in. But there's an old saying in Eastern Europe when comparing their media to the West. "At least we know we're being lied to." And the message is very true. Many Westerners have no clue they are being lied to - even today with all of the access we have to international and alternative news sources...

[Donny osmond]

"RT is not propaganda because I said so, and if they are caught propagandising and proselytising for a specific government, then clearly the fault lies with the institution that calls them out for it." Good to know.

For all your posturing about being woke as fuck, you seem to be far more sucked in than anyone else.

Don't know about RT but Russia is well known to be using news services to run black propaganda campaigns in the UK.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/legal-ok-st73lrtvk

"woke as fuck"... like it

Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk

[emoji38] British propaganda about Russian propaganda about Britain. That's the world we live in. But there's an old saying in Eastern Europe when comparing their media to the West. "At least we know we're being lied to." And the message is very true. Many Westerners have no clue they are being lied to - even today with all of the access we have to international and alternative news sources...

"They're all lying" I can see the attraction of it as a tag line, but just dismissing something out of hand without a seconds consideration is just as dumb as fully believing it without a moments doubt.

As it happens, the article cites a concrete example, the rumour (that for some has turned into hard reality) that the Scottish Indy ref was manipulated, and the result faked by the UK "establishment".

Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk

[rowan]

Meanwhile the Western media lies about Putin every single day, and tries to present him as the new Hitler, even as it surrounds Russia's borders with a military build-up reminiscent of the Nazis themselves.

[rowan]

Meanwhile, here's an interesting story: http://journal-neo.org/2015/07/12/time- ... territory/

[UGagain]

British propaganda about Russian propaganda about Britain. That's the world we live in. But there's an old saying in Eastern Europe when comparing their media to the West. "At least we know we're being lied to." And the message is very true. Many Westerners have no clue they are being lied to - even today with all of the access we have to international and alternative news sources...

Indeed. There are a number here.

And worse, even when they know they're being lied to they don't care and will apologise for the liars.

I just don't get the authoritarian mind at all. Do they have no dignity?

[UGagain]

Interestingly, the goal of the missile defense program is to avoid blackmail by a nuclear power which isn't highly sophisticated (words to that effect). A full on strike by say Russia vs the US, using Russias sea and land based launchers would be successful and the missile defense program isn't designed to be preventing that, unlike the Star Wars program.

Putin talks about balance in that video, yet when he then refers to more offensive weapons that ignores the fact that this program does little to remove that balance. It also ignores the fact that every action he takes to rebuilt Russian power drives the Eastern European governments closer to NATO.

No it isn't. That's the childlike propaganda that we're fed.

It's an absurd lie but if you choose to believe it that's up to you.

NATO should have gone the way of the Warsaw Pact. That it hasn't tells anyone who's awake that NATO was never a defensive organisation but is a means for the US to control Europe.

US policy is to keep Russia and Europe apart.

As if the Russians have any designs on the Baltic states. There's nothing there. They're hollowed out black holes. Testaments to neoliberal madness and perfidy.

[UGagain]

[jared_7]

Yeah, but they did it "independently" of the government so its not as bad.

Keep up, old chap.

[UGagain]

Yeah, but they did it "independently" of the government so its not as bad.

Keep up, old chap.

That doctor works for the UK Ministry of Defence, where Sandy works.

She went to Sandhurst iirc.

But I take your point.

[UGagain]

I get most of my news from Today, sometimes PM but I rarely get to listen to PM, and from the Times.

On the video in the OP then i'd agree the US has gone more than a little OTT in their efforts to design and implement a defence system, and that their actions in doing so fall way outside various non proliferation agreements. However I don't know if Putin wants us to infer that prior to the 1970s there was balance in the MAD approach and we weren't seeing dangerous escalations in the arms race, that would be nonsense. I'm also not sure why he's complaining about the cost of developing such programmes, with the amount of money he's taken in bungs then the World's richest man could likely fund Russian developments out of his own pocket.

No idea of course if the translations shown on screen are even remotely accurate, I've got about 10 words in Russian, and then tend towards the more colourful metaphors

It's difficult to put into words how pathetic you are.

[UGagain]

Meanwhile, here's an interesting story: http://journal-neo.org/2015/07/12/time- ... territory/

Good piece.

Without the threat of ISIS and the chaos it is creating across the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) region, the ability for the West to wage war on its enemies and justify extraterritorial meddling would be severely limited. In fact, the very ISIS forces clearly being armed and supplied by NATO directly, are being used as a pretext by US policymakers to execute recently laid plans to incrementally invade and occupy Syria with US military forces

That's about it in a nutshell. Though I'd add that the pretext extends to wiping out the general uprising that has been going on in Iraq for the past 3 or 4 years.

Fallujah has been creamed yet again.

[UGagain]

So the wash up for this thread is that no matter what Putin says or the Russians do, the true believers will just continue to spread anti-Russian hate speech no matter what.

Pavlov's dogs.

Putin. Ding ding!

[UGagain]

So the wash up for this thread is that no matter what Putin says or the Russians do, the true believers will just continue to spread anti-Russian hate speech no matter what.

Pavlov's dogs.

Putin. Ding ding!

I have to say that the "Putin is the world's richest man" thingy is beyond juvenile. I doubt even Fox News would touch that.

[Digby]

So the wash up for this thread is that no matter what Putin says or the Russians do, the true believers will just continue to spread anti-Russian hate speech no matter what.

Pavlov's dogs.

Putin. Ding ding!

I have to say that the "Putin is the world's richest man" thingy is beyond juvenile. I doubt even Fox News would touch that.

Myself i'd take the view that Putin is by our standards hugely corrupt, and that that isn't anti Russian it's anti Putin, but I don't hold Putin and Russia to be synonymous. I also don't take the view that having someone who enables what was until very recently public companies generate vast wealth for a few is an awfully good idea, and I'd further take the view that him enabling those who make the massive back handers and removing (by various means) those who don't pay and/or our out spoken about him as being bad government. And too I didn't think labeling him the world's richest man was an unusual claim, or even interesting, it's just how it presently is.

Myself I don't like a lot about Putin, his seeming view that the fall of the Soviet Union was a bad thing and should be restored, nor how he grants access to Russian markets and resources, nor how he enacts his control. No doubt Putin would contend his steps are necessary to maintain control in Russia, to some degree he may have a point but on balance I don't like dictatorship, though now he's had made his play for power i such fashion releasing that grip on power could prove dangerous, and not just for him. I don't doubt in many ways that Putin is an exceptionally smart and diligent figure, and that I don't like him doesn't mean everything he says is wrong, though he does sound a bit barking on the there's no state sponsored doping in Russian sports amongst other things, and of course it's easy to deride someone who puts in a play a rather disgusting homophobic agenda and then sends the following and similar as a Christmas Card -

[UGagain]

So the wash up for this thread is that no matter what Putin says or the Russians do, the true believers will just continue to spread anti-Russian hate speech no matter what.

Pavlov's dogs.

Putin. Ding ding!

I have to say that the "Putin is the world's richest man" thingy is beyond juvenile. I doubt even Fox News would touch that.

Myself i'd take the view that Putin is by our standards hugely corrupt, and that that isn't anti Russian it's anti Putin, but I don't hold Putin and Russia to be synonymous. I also don't take the view that having someone who enables what was until very recently public companies generate vast wealth for a few is an awfully good idea, and I'd further take the view that him enabling those who make the massive back handers and removing (by various means) those who don't pay and/or our out spoken about him as being bad government. And too I didn't think labeling him the world's richest man was an unusual claim, or even interesting, it's just how it presently is.

Myself I don't like a lot about Putin, his seeming view that the fall of the Soviet Union was a bad thing and should be restored, nor how he grants access to Russian markets and resources, nor how he enacts his control. No doubt Putin would contend his steps are necessary to maintain control in Russia, to some degree he may have a point but on balance I don't like dictatorship, though now he's had made his play for power i such fashion releasing that grip on power could prove dangerous, and not just for him. I don't doubt in many ways that Putin is an exceptionally smart and diligent figure, and that I don't like him doesn't mean everything he says is wrong, though he does sound a bit barking on the there's no state sponsored doping in Russian sports amongst other things, and of course it's easy to deride someone who puts in a play a rather disgusting homophobic agenda and then sends the following and similar as a Christmas Card -

Just more rote western propaganda.

Do you not understand that we don't buy it?

It's beyond pathetic that you do.

[rowan]

America and Britain have always needed to create villains to divert attention from their own atrocities. No country in history was more evil than the British Empire, no country today is remotely as evil as the American empire. That's the bottom line and they know it - to their eternal shame. The US is about to elect a war criminal complicit in the genocide of Iraqis and scores of thousands more deaths in Libya and Syria, and withal the resultant refugee tidal wave into Europe, all by creating an opposing candidate so loathsome and represensible he is literally unelectable. Meanwhile dumbed down American women are tearing themselves away from their daytime TV talk shows to tell us how voting for a serial war criminal is the feministy thing to do. I wonder if they consider brokering arms deals with the Saudis 'feministy,' or supporting a Jihadi war against Afghanistan where a progressive socialist government had previously given women full rights, or defending a child rapist during her legal career by using intimidation tactics against the victim, for that matter. Truth is, if a black African male had done a fraction as much as Hillary, he'd have been dragged off to the Hague (or the African court) a long time ago.

[Digby]

I have to say that the "Putin is the world's richest man" thingy is beyond juvenile. I doubt even Fox News would touch that.

Myself i'd take the view that Putin is by our standards hugely corrupt, and that that isn't anti Russian it's anti Putin, but I don't hold Putin and Russia to be synonymous. I also don't take the view that having someone who enables what was until very recently public companies generate vast wealth for a few is an awfully good idea, and I'd further take the view that him enabling those who make the massive back handers and removing (by various means) those who don't pay and/or our out spoken about him as being bad government. And too I didn't think labeling him the world's richest man was an unusual claim, or even interesting, it's just how it presently is.

Myself I don't like a lot about Putin, his seeming view that the fall of the Soviet Union was a bad thing and should be restored, nor how he grants access to Russian markets and resources, nor how he enacts his control. No doubt Putin would contend his steps are necessary to maintain control in Russia, to some degree he may have a point but on balance I don't like dictatorship, though now he's had made his play for power i such fashion releasing that grip on power could prove dangerous, and not just for him. I don't doubt in many ways that Putin is an exceptionally smart and diligent figure, and that I don't like him doesn't mean everything he says is wrong, though he does sound a bit barking on the there's no state sponsored doping in Russian sports amongst other things, and of course it's easy to deride someone who puts in a play a rather disgusting homophobic agenda and then sends the following and similar as a Christmas Card -

Just more rote western propaganda.

Do you not understand that we don't buy it?

It's beyond pathetic that you do.

Would that be the royal we?

[Coco]

America and Britain have always needed to create villains to divert attention from their own atrocities. No country in history was more evil than the British Empire, no country today is remotely as evil as the American empire. That's the bottom line and they know it - to their eternal shame. The US is about to elect a war criminal complicit in the genocide of Iraqis and scores of thousands more deaths in Libya and Syria, and withal the resultant refugee tidal wave into Europe, all by creating an opposing candidate so loathsome and represensible he is literally unelectable.Meanwhile dumbed down American women are tearing themselves away from their daytime TV talk shows to tell us how voting for a serial war criminal is the feministy thing to do. I wonder if they consider brokering arms deals with the Saudis 'feministy,' or supporting a Jihadi war against Afghanistan where a progressive socialist government had previously given women full rights, or defending a child rapist during her legal career by using intimidation tactics against the victim, for that matter. Truth is, if a black African male had done a fraction as much as Hillary, he'd have been dragged off to the Hague (or the African court) a long time ago.

Wow.

[Donny osmond]

America and Britain have always needed to create villains to divert attention from their own atrocities. No country in history was more evil than the British Empire, no country today is remotely as evil as the American empire. That's the bottom line and they know it - to their eternal shame. The US is about to elect a war criminal complicit in the genocide of Iraqis and scores of thousands more deaths in Libya and Syria, and withal the resultant refugee tidal wave into Europe, all by creating an opposing candidate so loathsome and represensible he is literally unelectable.Meanwhile dumbed down American women are tearing themselves away from their daytime TV talk shows to tell us how voting for a serial war criminal is the feministy thing to do. I wonder if they consider brokering arms deals with the Saudis 'feministy,' or supporting a Jihadi war against Afghanistan where a progressive socialist government had previously given women full rights, or defending a child rapist during her legal career by using intimidation tactics against the victim, for that matter. Truth is, if a black African male had done a fraction as much as Hillary, he'd have been dragged off to the Hague (or the African court) a long time ago.

Wow.

Coco... meet Rowan.

Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk

[UGagain]

Myself i'd take the view that Putin is by our standards hugely corrupt, and that that isn't anti Russian it's anti Putin, but I don't hold Putin and Russia to be synonymous. I also don't take the view that having someone who enables what was until very recently public companies generate vast wealth for a few is an awfully good idea, and I'd further take the view that him enabling those who make the massive back handers and removing (by various means) those who don't pay and/or our out spoken about him as being bad government. And too I didn't think labeling him the world's richest man was an unusual claim, or even interesting, it's just how it presently is.

Myself I don't like a lot about Putin, his seeming view that the fall of the Soviet Union was a bad thing and should be restored, nor how he grants access to Russian markets and resources, nor how he enacts his control. No doubt Putin would contend his steps are necessary to maintain control in Russia, to some degree he may have a point but on balance I don't like dictatorship, though now he's had made his play for power i such fashion releasing that grip on power could prove dangerous, and not just for him. I don't doubt in many ways that Putin is an exceptionally smart and diligent figure, and that I don't like him doesn't mean everything he says is wrong, though he does sound a bit barking on the there's no state sponsored doping in Russian sports amongst other things, and of course it's easy to deride someone who puts in a play a rather disgusting homophobic agenda and then sends the following and similar as a Christmas Card -

Just more rote western propaganda.

Do you not understand that we don't buy it?

It's beyond pathetic that you do.

Would that be the royal we?

Oh do get back under your bridge.

Just repeating western propaganda points doesn't a discussion make. It's just a pack of war mongering nonsense.

[UGagain]

The Propaganda War With Putin
by RENEE PARSONS

If it had not already been apparent, the net effect of the DNC email hack has been to kick open the door to a deep American antagonism towards Russian President Vladimir Putin.

In what has become an old fashioned American pile-on, President Barack Obama, Presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, the Democratic Party and what seems the entire political establishment as well as the MSM, have united to undermine Putin as if to prime the American public for war with Russia.

War is, after all, more successful when the people have been thoroughly programmed. For instance, for a war-weary American public ‘we are bombing civilians out of a humanitarian necessity’ may work well. If necessary, a little hysteria wouldn’t hurt but most of all, a necessary requirement is to efficiently tutor the public consciousness to despise the adversary. In this case, Clinton has identified Putin as the adversary and that he is one evil reincarnation of Adolf Hitler.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/08/04/ ... ith-putin/