EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

[Which Tyler]

Nowell came back last week, Ashton's banned; I wouldn't say that Yarde is doing all that badly; just that Roko is better in pretty much all aspects of wing play.

I think the pecking order beyond those who've made various squads (Watson, Nowell, May, Roko, Yarde) the pecking order is anyone's guess; though Wade has to be fairly well up there.

[Digby]

Why are these Englishmen so fragile? To many weights, not enough stretching and contact work, I expect.


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That and playing some multiple of 2-4 club games for every test cap rather than some multiple of 1-2. Which brings us other benefits, but of course comes with costs too.

[jngf]

See Sam Jones is out.

Real shame for him. But on the other hand we get closer to the answer to the question: just how many back rowers need to be injured before Kvesic gets a go?

Apparently it's quite a lot.

I still don't get why Kvesic has been so overlooked by Jones? - a better openside than any of Robshaw, Jones, Williams, Clifford, Haskell imo
- feel he's being treated the same way as Hazell was 12 or 13 years ago

Kvesic can tackle, carry and poach turnovers - Itoje may offer a similar facility, though may come potentially unstuck on nimbleness/mobililty/work rate needed for an openside (though to be fair he has shown this in spades for a lock) ?

[fivepointer]

See Sam Jones is out.

Real shame for him. But on the other hand we get closer to the answer to the question: just how many back rowers need to be injured before Kvesic gets a go?

Apparently it's quite a lot.

I still don't get why Kvesic has been so overlooked by Jones? - a better openside than any of Robshaw, Jones, Williams, Clifford, Haskell imo
- feel he's being treated the same way as Hazell was 12 or 13 years ago

Kvesic can tackle, carry and poach turnovers - Itoje may offer a similar facility, though may come potentially unstuck on nimbleness/mobililty/work rate needed for an openside (though to be fair he has shown this in spades for a lock) ?

I've banged the drum for Kvesic for ages but its pretty clear that Jones doesnt think he has sufficient physicality to play at test level. He does all that you'd want but a lack of power is probably his undoing.

[jngf]

I feel openside is a position where skill should count for more than raw power. Feel Jones might be missing a trick then again Itoje may be able to offer those openside skills missing from previous recent incumbents.

[Puja]

Why are these Englishmen so fragile? To many weights, not enough stretching and contact work, I expect.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That and playing some multiple of 2-4 club games for every test cap rather than some multiple of 1-2. Which brings us other benefits, but of course comes with costs too.

Oh you bit! Why would you bite on such rancid bait?

Puja

[Digby]

Why are these Englishmen so fragile? To many weights, not enough stretching and contact work, I expect.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That and playing some multiple of 2-4 club games for every test cap rather than some multiple of 1-2. Which brings us other benefits, but of course comes with costs too.

Oh you bit! Why would you bite on such rancid bait?

Puja

I didn't take it to be bait, just a simple question with a simple answer. I'm not sure it'd ever occur to me to get riled up on here, amused sometimes maybe.

[Mellsblue]

On the BBC:

Premiership Rugby has criticised England boss Eddie Jones' decision to hold a full-on three-day training camp between Premiership matches this week.

Flanker Sam Jones broke his leg while winger Anthony Watson broke his jaw.

Premiership Rugby, the body representing English top-flight clubs, said the format was "not anticipated".

"Premiership Rugby believes England should not be doing full training sessions straight after a Premiership weekend," a statement read.

"We would not expect full training sessions to occur during the two remaining two-day England camps planned this season."

Releasing England players for the camps is part of the new £225m agreement between the Rugby Football Union and the Premiership clubs, with the union insisting that the national team's training is "fully in line with the agreement".

"As we approach the autumn series, game training has to take place," said an RFU spokeswoman. "This has always been part of the plan and is fully in line with the agreement."

Saracens director of rugby Mark McCall said the timing of the camp was "flabbergasting" and "madness", with the double winners facing Toulon in the Champions Cup a week on Saturday.

McCall said lock George Kruis has not trained since returning to the club as he continues to recover from a back injury, while Harlequins' Joe Marler and Mike Brown have also not trained since the camp.

"From our club's point of view we thought that Premiership Rugby could have fought harder as to where these camps are situated in the calendar," said McCall.

"I understand England's needs, but it seems madness. Everyone goes on about player welfare yet our international players have had a tough Monday and Tuesday and we are playing on Sunday."

Harlequins director of rugby John Kingston told BBC Radio 5 live that Brown and Marler returned on Thursday carrying niggles, although he expects them to play this weekend, and added he had no issues with the intensity of training at the international get together.

England will 'carry on' using judo

Wasps flanker Jones, 24, suffered his broken leg while grappling with lock Maro Itoje during a session based around judo skills.

However, two-time Olympic judo medallist Kate Howey, one of the coaches used by England, expects head coach Jones to continue using the sport in training.

"Eddie is looking for every bit of advantage within the game," Howey told BBC Radio 5 live.

"I think it will carry on because there is a massive crossover in what we do and what players do on the pitch."

Howey, who won Olympic bronze in 1992 and silver eight years later, added that Jones was injured in what appeared to be an "innocuous" incident and that he "fell awkwardly".


Have to say that I agree with McCall. The judo seems fine but heavy training at this time seems very silly.

[Which Tyler]

I kinda agree* - I just have difficulty feeling sympathy for PRL (and individual members) A] on principal; and B] because they negotiated the deal in the first place - if they did a bad job of it, then that's on them.



* Whilst England boys were doing full-on training, what were the non-England boys doing? I believe most clubs do full-on training on the Tuesday or Wednesday; and if so, then it's all pretty hypocritical

[skidger]

I didnt realise Jones got his injury whilst doing Judo. I bet Wasps are ever so slightly annoyed by this.......

[fivepointer]

What did the clubs expect. Interminable meetings, endless video analysis and brainstorming sessions? Of course there was going to be a contact element in the training, and that's no different what you would expect at the clubs. Injuries can happen at any time and often result from activity that can seem pretty innocuous. You cannot wrap players in cotton wool.

[Puja]

I kinda agree* - I just have difficulty feeling sympathy for PRL (and individual members) A] on principal; and B] because they negotiated the deal in the first place - if they did a bad job of it, then that's on them.



* Whilst England boys were doing full-on training, what were the non-England boys doing? I believe most clubs do full-on training on the Tuesday or Wednesday; and if so, then it's all pretty hypocritical

I'm with you. They're acting shocked that England were training in their training sessions and I'm not sure if they're stupid or mendacious. What on earth would be the point of a training camp if no-one trained?

Puja

[Mellsblue]

I kinda agree* - I just have difficulty feeling sympathy for PRL (and individual members) A] on principal; and B] because they negotiated the deal in the first place - if they did a bad job of it, then that's on them.



* Whilst England boys were doing full-on training, what were the non-England boys doing? I believe most clubs do full-on training on the Tuesday or Wednesday; and if so, then it's all pretty hypocritical

I'm with you. They're acting shocked that England were training in their training sessions and I'm not sure if they're stupid or mendacious. What on earth would be the point of a training camp if no-one trained?

Puja

Jones said it would be a brutal training camp. There are plenty of ways to train without full-on contact. Of course, Watson could've broken his cheek bone by taking a shoulder that missed a tackle bag during run of the mill training and the training sessions were nothing more than you'd expect at their clubs. But, that Jones publicly stating that the sessions would be brutal has probably enflamed the issue.

[Which Tyler]

Jones said it would be a brutal training camp. There are plenty of ways to train without full-on contact. Of course, Watson could've broken his cheek bone by taking a shoulder that missed a tackle bag during run of the mill training and the training sessions were nothing more than you'd expect at their clubs. But, that Jones publicly stating that the sessions would be brutal has probably enflamed the issue.

You mean we should take the things that Eddie Jones says as the verbatim truth now?

You could very well be right, of course; and neither injury really sounds like the sort of thing that never happens during club training to me - the whole thing just seems like a mountain out of a mole-hill and clubs sounding off because they can, rather than because they should.

[Mellsblue]

Jones said it would be a brutal training camp. There are plenty of ways to train without full-on contact. Of course, Watson could've broken his cheek bone by taking a shoulder that missed a tackle bag during run of the mill training and the training sessions were nothing more than you'd expect at their clubs. But, that Jones publicly stating that the sessions would be brutal has probably enflamed the issue.

You mean we should take the things that Eddie Jones says as the verbatim truth now?

You could very well be right, of course; and neither injury really sounds like the sort of thing that never happens during club training to me - the whole thing just seems like a mountain out of a mole-hill and clubs sounding off because they can, rather than because they should.

Not at all, but saying what he said was always going to lead to this when injuries happened.

[morepork]

The Ewok is working on the breakdown then. That has to be a good thing?

[Puja]

The Ewok is working on the breakdown then. That has to be a good thing?

One would like to hope so. The work that he did bringing George Smith in certainly produced results.

Puja

[Peej]

I imagine some of the frustration is that they went into a full blooded smash session the day after some of them played Premiership rugby. Normally players have a rest and recovery day, don't they?

[Which Tyler]

Bath:
Charlie Ewels - Off the bench today; couple of big hits, and never exposed - didn't make too big an impression on me beyond that, and as ever, I'll leave it to the resident forwards to comment more... inteligently?

George Ford - Good game, bossed the players around him a bit more today, and got the ball to people running nice angles - still largely had to tell them what to do; good kicking from hand, and good movement of the ball to the right places. Kicking 6/6
Jonathan Joseph - first game back after a few weeks off - made it look like he'd been carrying that injury in the early season too - much more threatening, and as solid as ever in defence.
Semesa Rokoduguni - Looked dangerous when he had the ball, but didn't get that much space to work with.
Anthony Watson - DNP - fractured jaw.

[Tigersman]

Mike Williams injured before the tigers game

[16th man]

The Boks looking physical and committed but missing a lot of tackles. They've just been on the bad end of a shocking TMO decision to allow a try when the scorer clearly lost control of the ball forward then picked it up again to score.

[Blandy]

Jones said it would be a brutal training camp. There are plenty of ways to train without full-on contact. Of course, Watson could've broken his cheek bone by taking a shoulder that missed a tackle bag during run of the mill training and the training sessions were nothing more than you'd expect at their clubs. But, that Jones publicly stating that the sessions would be brutal has probably enflamed the issue.

You mean we should take the things that Eddie Jones says as the verbatim truth now?

You could very well be right, of course; and neither injury really sounds like the sort of thing that never happens during club training to me - the whole thing just seems like a mountain out of a mole-hill and clubs sounding off because they can, rather than because they should.

Not at all, but saying what he said was always going to lead to this when injuries happened.

Nowelllatest to be reported to be injured after the training camp

[Puja]

Nowell latest to be reported to be injured after the training camp

That sounds like he's really going to be pushing it to make the AIs, which leaves us with Roko and Yarde as our only fit EPS wingers. Thankfully, both of them appear to be in pretty good form at the moment and having a bit of size on each wing will give a bit of comfort if Eddie's worried about Slade/Joseph not bringing enough bosh.

However, surely this brings up who the next taxi off the rank is. Wade's got to be close. If May's promise of a mid-October return is accurate, then he could be back in contention. On form, you'd have to say Addison and Banahan are looking useful.

Puja

[Spiffy]

Nowell latest to be reported to be injured after the training camp

That sounds like he's really going to be pushing it to make the AIs, which leaves us with Roko and Yarde as our only fit EPS wingers. Thankfully, both of them appear to be in pretty good form at the moment and having a bit of size on each wing will give a bit of comfort if Eddie's worried about Slade/Joseph not bringing enough bosh.

However, surely this brings up who the next taxi off the rank is. Wade's got to be close. If May's promise of a mid-October return is accurate, then he could be back in contention. On form, you'd have to say Addison and Banahan are looking useful.


Puja

Never mind wing, Banahan has been loking quite useful at 12 for Bath. If Jones really wants a big unit/bosher in the IC slot he could do worse. Banahan is bigger than anyone else, he actually has a bit of pace, and pretty good hands too. But it won't happen.

[Which Tyler]

Never mind wing, Banahan has been loking quite useful at 12 for Bath. If Jones really wants a big unit/bosher in the IC slot he could do worse. Banahan is bigger than anyone else, he actually has a bit of pace, and pretty good hands too. But it won't happen.

Nor should it happen either - he's not a 12, he's a winger who can now do a job there. Besides, the IC with the best form in the league is available and in the EPS already, and also possessing of bulk - Te'o