RugbyRebels

Nah, The Last Jedi was great, especially as a massive “fuck you” to toxic fanboys. Sorry you hate things that are cool and good.

New one was ok but a bit slow and felt like they were rehashing everything.

Watch bright the other night, was a pish training day.

cashead wrote:Nah, The Last Jedi was great, especially as a massive “fuck you” to toxic fanboys. Sorry you hate things that are cool and good.

Yes. That cool and good line gets better each time.

Apologies if this sounds like I’m attacking you, I’m really not, but you are a Star Wars fanboy right? I don’t mean that as an insult. I thought I’d heard you say it. What distinguishes the toxic section, aside from not liking this film?

I’m genuinely confused about this. It seems objectively pretty awful. I just don’t get it.

Even if we say there are good moments, it wasn’t also littered with moments that made you cringe?

Mikey Brown wrote:

cashead wrote:Nah, The Last Jedi was great, especially as a massive “fuck you” to toxic fanboys. Sorry you hate things that are cool and good.

Yes. That cool and good line gets funnier each time.

Apologies if this sounds like I’m attacking you, I’m really not, but you are a Star Wars fanboy right? I don’t mean that as an insult. I thought I’d heard you say it. What distinguishes the toxic section, aside from not liking this film?

I’m genuinely confused about this. It seems objectively pretty awful. I just don’t get it.

Even if we say there are good moments, it wasn’t also littered with moments that made you cringe?

Out of the "Star" franchises (Trek, Wars, Gate and Search), Star Wars is my second favourite, behind Star Trek.

Toxic fandom is usually about entitlement and an unwarranted sense of ownership of the product. I've yet to see anything as bad as the Rick and Morty fans (note: if anyone says "I'm a Rick and Morty fan," I will immediately assume the worst about that person) like prolonged campaigns of harassment against female writers which prompts the show's creator to call fans "pathetic pieces of shit" and public tantrums and screaming fits at minimum wage workers at McDonald's because baby didn't get their stupid fucking meme sauce and ba-ba want his saucy-waucy. If you want an almost lethal dose of second hand embarrassment, google it. One stupid motherfucker apparently traded in his car for a packet of McDonald's Szechuan sauce for fuck's sake.

In the case of Star Wars, it's the fact that they're lashing out at Rey because she's got a vagina and apparently that fucking BITCH needs to sit down because it's ruining my precious incel boy movie, and shit like some whiny bitchcake doing a petition to make Episode VIII non-canon because "it's nert muh Ster Wers!"

As I said, Episode VIII was fucking great, and easily the most self-reflexive of them. A lot of it was about defying fan expectations, like the fact that whom Snoke is or where he came from doesn't matter much (just some Force-adept Sith dickhead), and Rey's parentage is completely irrelevant (just some drunken fucks that are probably dead in a ditch somewhere, to the dismay of no one). It's about succession, and giving the series to a new pair of hands that may either completely destroy its legacy (like Kylo Ren wants to), or reinvent it in their image (like Rey), and fail or succeed, it'll be in just as good a pair of hands as it was before. In fact, I loved that the villain basically wants to destroy everything that defines Star Wars, and while the excursion to Canto-Bight is probably the biggest point of contention (and can probably be cut out of the film), it ends up being a commentary on how the series stays alive because there's commercial interest in it. It's effectively a 4th wall breaking film, without any "turning to the camera" shit.

Das boot- oh to have seen this one in the cinema, classic

On the theme of "dudes only", Twelve Angry Men. Watch it every few years. Love it every time.

Watched a documentary on Fujimori last night, not sure where it was produced but it was about half in English, half in Spanish. It seems that 'El Chino' began with honest intentions and was doing a fine job, but the brutal struggle with the Shining Path rebellion gradually corrupted him as he gave the green light to Montesinos' death squads, indiscriminate bombings and other human rights violations - tactics later turned against a political rival. & then there was the corruption and embezzlement. So it's hard to say how history will judge Fujimori in the long term, given he won three elections (one by landslide, one after the main opposition withdrew), but ended up being sentenced to 25 years in prison. Interesting to see that Kuczynski has now pardoned him, as Kuczynski himself now faces corruption charges for his connections to Odebrecht, the same construction giant Brazil's Temer is accused of taking bribes from. Kuczynski was accused of attempting to garner support within congress by promising to pardon Fujimori but vehemently denied this.

cashead wrote:In the case of Star Wars, it's the fact that they're lashing out at Rey because she's got a vagina and apparently that fucking BITCH needs to sit down because it's ruining my precious incel boy movie, and shit like some whiny bitchcake doing a petition to make Episode VIII non-canon because "it's nert muh Ster Wers!"

I'd imagine it'd because we frequent different parts of the internet, but most of the criticisms I've seen, and largely agree with, are because she's a Mary Sue, not because she has boobs. Her Mary Sue-ness was established in TFA (active mind tricks shortly after learning she's force sensitive) and continued in TLJ (clearing landslides at a relatively similar time to when Luke was struggling to life pebbles).

cashead wrote:As I said, Episode VIII was fucking great, and easily the most self-reflexive of them. A lot of it was about defying fan expectations...

That's all well and good, except it went so far into trying to subvert expectations that it turns the plot -- both within TLJ and between it and TFA -- into a mess.

cashead wrote:...like the fact that whom Snoke is or where he came from doesn't matter much (just some Force-adept Sith dickhead)...

Based on TFA it was supposed to matter as he's clearly not meant to be a Sith given that he goes on about balance between the light and dark sides (and maybe even berates the Sith, I can't quire recall), whereas the Sith are just flat out dark side practitioners. While it would've been cool had he been Palpatine's master who somehow survived, it looks like he's, instead, supposed to be the First Jedi. This works with how he's presented in TFA, but not how he's presented in TLJ. As with numerous other plots set up in TFA, and abandoned in TLJ, there seems to be a hell of a disconnect between the stories Abrams and Johnson were aiming to tell. Guess this is what happens when you have intend to have each part of a trilogy directed by different people.

cashead wrote:Rey's parentage is completely irrelevant (just some drunken fucks that are probably dead in a ditch somewhere, to the dismay of no one).

Assuming it's true, this is actually one of the better bits of trolling, for mine.

I don't really care about fancy pants self-reflexive critical media analysis and what not, but there's also a bunch of other in-universe plots/events that make no sense, which is what I do care about. They are what really f*ck up the sequels for me, and many others I think.

EDIT: Having thought about it more, and perhaps related to what MB said before about TLJ being produced by a committee, all the constant attempts at humour gives it the feel of a film that belongs in the Avengers franchise, not Star Wars.

zer0 wrote:

cashead wrote:In the case of Star Wars, it's the fact that they're lashing out at Rey because she's got a vagina and apparently that fucking BITCH needs to sit down because it's ruining my precious incel boy movie, and shit like some whiny bitchcake doing a petition to make Episode VIII non-canon because "it's nert muh Ster Wers!"

I'd imagine it'd because we frequent different parts of the internet, but most of the criticisms I've seen, and largely agree with, are because she's a Mary Sue, not because she has boobs. Her Mary Sue-ness was established in TFA (active mind tricks shortly after learning she's force sensitive) and continued in TLJ (clearing landslides at a relatively similar time to when Luke was struggling to life pebbles).

Is she, though? Yeah, she lifts a bunch of rocks and that is cool, but she's also stubborn and headstrong, often blundering into traps like she id with Snoke, who could've killed her at any point.

Rey has also never really saved the day herself (compare that to Luke in ANH, who is the bestest pilot that takes down the Death Star while everyone else around him dies because they're shit compared to him), and has always been a part of a larger team of people working towards a common goal - in TFA, she is part of a small group of rebels that help take down the otherwise impenetrable Starkiller Base shields for the X-Wings, and Luke does more to contribute in saving the day (or what's left of it) from across the galaxy than Rey does, and, he's not even really there!

Honestly, if the best argument that "she's better at the Force than Luke was at a comparable point!" is the argument that she is a Mary Sue, then I'd question if said people actually understand what one is.

zer0 wrote:

cashead wrote:As I said, Episode VIII was fucking great, and easily the most self-reflexive of them. A lot of it was about defying fan expectations...

That's all well and good, except it went so far into trying to subvert expectations that it turns the plot -- both within TLJ and between it and TFA -- into a mess.

How's it a mess? It's a series of fairly straight-forward subplots running alongside one another.

zer0 wrote:

cashead wrote:...like the fact that whom Snoke is or where he came from doesn't matter much (just some Force-adept Sith dickhead)...

Based on TFA it was supposed to matter as he's clearly not meant to be a Sith given that he goes on about balance between the light and dark sides (and maybe even berates the Sith, I can't quire recall), whereas the Sith are just flat out dark side practitioners. While it would've been cool had he been Palpatine's master who somehow survived, it looks like he's, instead, supposed to be the First Jedi. This works with how he's presented in TFA, but not how he's presented in TLJ. As with numerous other plots set up in TFA, and abandoned in TLJ, there seems to be a hell of a disconnect between the stories Abrams and Johnson were aiming to tell. Guess this is what happens when you have intend to have each part of a trilogy directed by different people.

But once again, does it matter one iota? The only way this information about Snoke adds to the plot is that it strengthens to reading of Kylo Ren as "ultimate fanboy gone bad," like an angry, Force-adept Syndrome, who wants to destroy Star Wars itself. The other issue with "Abrams wanting to tell a story," is that he's good at writing a hell of a good first chapter, but it immediately becomes clear that he hasn't got a whole lot else and runs out of steam sooner or later (case in point: Lost, or fuck, the last season of Felicity). THat's not to say that TFA was not lacking in any self-reflexivity, as there was a strong theme about re-introducing the original trilogy to a whole new generation of audience, for whom Star Wars of old is a kitsch old relic of a bygone era (which can explain why it so closely mimicked A New Hope).

zer0 wrote:I don't really care about fancy pants self-reflexive critical media analysis and what not, but there's also a bunch of other in-universe plots/events that make no sense, which is what I do care about. They are what really f*ck up the sequels for me, and many others I think.

Like?

For me Star Wars has never really been about the plot, it has always been about characters, special effects and the theme of good versus evil, the mighty empire versus the plucky underdog rebels. I think I, II and III tried to over complicate that formula and mixed it in with bad casting choices, cringe worthy dialogue and some awful acting. TFA tried too hard to evoke memories of IV, V and VI, while TLJ feels like a return to the original themes while embarking on it's own simple story, with new characters to be developed and follow going forward.

I liked it, probably helped that I watched it with my kids.

Brigsby Bear. Can't tell you much about it without giving away the major plot twist at the beginning of the movie, but I really enjoyed it. One of the most original movies I've seen in some time.

Three Billboards outside Ebbing, Missouri

I see it'll get a wide release in the UK in a few days, so do yourself a favour and see this film. And don't do anything other than watch the trailer, because it's better that way. Trust me. I'll just say that it's probably the best film that the Coen Brothers never made.

Woody Harrelson, Sam Rockwell and Frances McDormand had better win some golden statuettes for this movie, I tell you what.

Aye. Waiting (what seems like a long time) for that one.

This one has to be filed in the next film watched thread...

It may not appeal to everyone but I watched the trailer with my son and I thought, I'm up for that:


Probably turn out to be a pile of shit but fwck it.

cashead wrote:Three Billboards outside Ebbing, Missouri

I see it'll get a wide release in the UK in a few days, so do yourself a favour and see this film. And don't do anything other than watch the trailer, because it's better that way. Trust me. I'll just say that it's probably the best film that the Coen Brothers never made.

Woody Harrelson, Sam Rockwell and Frances McDormand had better win some golden statuettes for this movie, I tell you what.

It was fucking grand. The deputy chief (I think) of the station was surprisingly great.

Three Billboards.

Superb.

Amazing.

The cast made it. Really strong performances from all, and Sam Rockwell's stock somehow keeps finding its way upwards. I don't mean that in a bad way...he just never seems to put in a poor performance.

However... Like I said, the film was made by the cast. A lot of credit has to go to McDonagh as he wrote, as well as directed it and I'm probably being a bit picky with the things I've highlighted as it was an exceptional film.

And why don't Americans say goodbye on the phone in movies?!? That boils my piss.

The take home message from this is a simple 'goodbye' goes a long way.

So rude

Agree about the goodbye thing but not sure I follow many of your issues with the plot.

I thought some of the supporting cast were a little crowbarred in / badly cast. But accepting a slightly droopy 2nd act thought it was fantastic.

WaspInWales wrote:
However...

► Show Spoiler

as I said, the cast made it. Whilst the film was put together extremely well. Amazing cinematography, and some of the background shots were amazing too. I just feel some of the scenes were a tad too much. First off, the fawn/possible reincarnation of the daughter (which was implied and quickly shot down by McDormand's character). What was the point? What did it add? Then the handover of the suicide note from Harrelson's wife to McDormand after the 'undesirable' character had been in the shop making threats and acting in an intimidating manner. Saved by the bell indeed. The note to the wife made it clear that a lot of thought had gone into the act of suicide. The perfect day was planned and played out, and that was it. Why leave the note in the hands of a grieving wife? What would stop her reading it and not handing it over and thus perpetuating the belief that the Billboards were the cause? Then Rockwell's chance meeting in a bar with the aforementioned undesirable. That was pushing things, but it tied in well with the 'I know you're good/I know you will come good, even though you're a racist scumbag' message from the suicide note left for him....which amazingly had another story to tell.

cashead wrote:

WaspInWales wrote:
However...

► Show Spoiler

as I said, the cast made it. Whilst the film was put together extremely well. Amazing cinematography, and some of the background shots were amazing too. I just feel some of the scenes were a tad too much. First off, the fawn/possible reincarnation of the daughter (which was implied and quickly shot down by McDormand's character). What was the point? What did it add? Then the handover of the suicide note from Harrelson's wife to McDormand after the 'undesirable' character had been in the shop making threats and acting in an intimidating manner. Saved by the bell indeed. The note to the wife made it clear that a lot of thought had gone into the act of suicide. The perfect day was planned and played out, and that was it. Why leave the note in the hands of a grieving wife? What would stop her reading it and not handing it over and thus perpetuating the belief that the Billboards were the cause? Then Rockwell's chance meeting in a bar with the aforementioned undesirable. That was pushing things, but it tied in well with the 'I know you're good/I know you will come good, even though you're a racist scumbag' message from the suicide note left for him....which amazingly had another story to tell.

► Show Spoiler

First point: It's just a moment to show just how much the enterprise meant to Mildred, and how much her anger had consumed her. Usually with stereotypes of those sorts of people, you usually get the "and then that's when ah realahsed ah-d gone too far and felt the touch of gawd," only for the film to eschew that.

Second: Because that was presumably his will, and she loved her husband enough to respect his wishes?

Third: To be honest, we don't really see Dixon do anything that is specifically racist. Like, he says stupid shit all the time, and he is a violent fuckhead, but much like Mildred's belief that the Ebbing PD had been sitting around for 7 months huffing their own farts instead of solving Angela's murder being incorrect (it turns out they'd exhausted every lead they could in a case with very little to work with), it's not necessarily backed up by what is seen or learned (don't forget it's repeatedly stated he was investigated, and that there was little evidence to support the allegations). His mum probably has some questionable beliefs that he may have learned, but when we do see him interact with black people in the film, he largely leaves them alone.

Mikey Brown wrote:Agree about the goodbye thing but not sure I follow many of your issues with the plot.

I thought some of the supporting cast were a little crowbarred in / badly cast. But accepting a slightly droopy 2nd act thought it was fantastic.

My comment about the cast making the movie was just directed at Rockwell, McDormand and Harrelson. They put in excellent performances. Agree with your comment about some of the supporting cast.

WaspInWales wrote:

cashead wrote:

WaspInWales wrote:
However...

► Show Spoiler

as I said, the cast made it. Whilst the film was put together extremely well. Amazing cinematography, and some of the background shots were amazing too. I just feel some of the scenes were a tad too much. First off, the fawn/possible reincarnation of the daughter (which was implied and quickly shot down by McDormand's character). What was the point? What did it add? Then the handover of the suicide note from Harrelson's wife to McDormand after the 'undesirable' character had been in the shop making threats and acting in an intimidating manner. Saved by the bell indeed. The note to the wife made it clear that a lot of thought had gone into the act of suicide. The perfect day was planned and played out, and that was it. Why leave the note in the hands of a grieving wife? What would stop her reading it and not handing it over and thus perpetuating the belief that the Billboards were the cause? Then Rockwell's chance meeting in a bar with the aforementioned undesirable. That was pushing things, but it tied in well with the 'I know you're good/I know you will come good, even though you're a racist scumbag' message from the suicide note left for him....which amazingly had another story to tell.

► Show Spoiler

First point: It's just a moment to show just how much the enterprise meant to Mildred, and how much her anger had consumed her. Usually with stereotypes of those sorts of people, you usually get the "and then that's when ah realahsed ah-d gone too far and felt the touch of gawd," only for the film to eschew that.

Second: Because that was presumably his will, and she loved her husband enough to respect his wishes?

Third: To be honest, we don't really see Dixon do anything that is specifically racist. Like, he says stupid shit all the time, and he is a violent fuckhead, but much like Mildred's belief that the Ebbing PD had been sitting around for 7 months huffing their own farts instead of solving Angela's murder being incorrect (it turns out they'd exhausted every lead they could in a case with very little to work with), it's not necessarily backed up by what is seen or learned (don't forget it's repeatedly stated he was investigated, and that there was little evidence to support the allegations). His mum probably has some questionable beliefs that he may have learned, but when we do see him interact with black people in the film, he largely leaves them alone.

► Show Spoiler

Regarding the second point. Yeah, fair enough regarding final wishes, but the timing when the wife walked into the shop was just ridiculous. Also considering the lengths he went to plan the suicide, why not just arrange for the note for Mildred to be delivered by courier or something? It would save the obvious distress of having his widow hand deliver the note the day after he topped himself.

The film did enough to highlight Dixon's racist tendencies without the need for having any scenes where he displayed it against 'persons of colour'. Willoughby even commented that if they got rid of every cop with vaguely racist leanings, they'd be left with just a few who hate the fags. I'll settle on racist tendencies with added anger issues. He came good though and all it took was his boss topping himself, a kick up the arse in the form of a suicide note and being involved in a fire which leaves him physically disfigured. Then there was his chance meeting with the undesirable in the bar. Again, ridiculous timing and dna collection technique. Why not just get his glass when he left...he already had the car reg?

I'm aware films rely on coincidental meetings and occurrences otherwise the plot may not move at all, but I just found these a bit daft.

Still an outstanding film though.

cashead wrote:

WaspInWales wrote:

cashead wrote:

► Show Spoiler

First point: It's just a moment to show just how much the enterprise meant to Mildred, and how much her anger had consumed her. Usually with stereotypes of those sorts of people, you usually get the "and then that's when ah realahsed ah-d gone too far and felt the touch of gawd," only for the film to eschew that.

Second: Because that was presumably his will, and she loved her husband enough to respect his wishes?

Third: To be honest, we don't really see Dixon do anything that is specifically racist. Like, he says stupid shit all the time, and he is a violent fuckhead, but much like Mildred's belief that the Ebbing PD had been sitting around for 7 months huffing their own farts instead of solving Angela's murder being incorrect (it turns out they'd exhausted every lead they could in a case with very little to work with), it's not necessarily backed up by what is seen or learned (don't forget it's repeatedly stated he was investigated, and that there was little evidence to support the allegations). His mum probably has some questionable beliefs that he may have learned, but when we do see him interact with black people in the film, he largely leaves them alone.

► Show Spoiler

Regarding the second point. Yeah, fair enough regarding final wishes, but the timing when the wife walked into the shop was just ridiculous. Also considering the lengths he went to plan the suicide, why not just arrange for the note for Mildred to be delivered by courier or something? It would save the obvious distress of having his widow hand deliver the note the day after he topped himself.

The film did enough to highlight Dixon's racist tendencies without the need for having any scenes where he displayed it against 'persons of colour'. Willoughby even commented that if they got rid of every cop with vaguely racist leanings, they'd be left with just a few who hate the fags. I'll settle on racist tendencies with added anger issues. He came good though and all it took was his boss topping himself, a kick up the arse in the form of a suicide note and being involved in a fire which leaves him physically disfigured. Then there was his chance meeting with the undesirable in the bar. Again, ridiculous timing and dna collection technique. Why not just get his glass when he left...he already had the car reg?

I'm aware films rely on coincidental meetings and occurrences otherwise the plot may not move at all, but I just found these a bit daft.

Still an outstanding film though.

► Show Spoiler

Regarding Dixon's alleged racism: maybe it's because one of the points that the film is making is the complexity of human interaction and people in general? Hell, the only person he is seen beating the shit out of is Red Welby.

Also, regarding his DNA collection technique - 1. he's an idiot and 2. he's drunk.

As for the "running into that guy in the bar - it follows up the earlier appearance of the guy where it's strongly implied he had something to do with Angela's death, it plays on audience expectations after Willoughby's note to Mildred* (guy talks too much in a bar and is overheard and presto, case closed) and, really, have you ever lived in a small town? Because the whole "they just happened to be in the same place at the same time" aspect is actually not too far-fetched in a small town.

*This also extends to the fact that "who killed Angela?" is essentially irrelevant, as opposed to the ramifications of that case, and how it has affected the people closest to her, and by extension, the police that tried to solve her murder.

Roar: The Most Dangerous Film Ever Made

This is quite mindboggling, a shit load of untrained Lions biting people now and then.

12 Strong. Not a bad effort although I've yet to read the book, which I imagine (as always) is better. It did seem a bit cobbled together considering it was only a 3 week op and it really only paid lip service to the fractious nature of the Northern Alliance. Thor needs to stop throwing his magazines away too!

Laid up in bed with a cold for a couple of days. Watched Thor RankCock, or whatever it is called.

What a complete pile of shyte. So much money to make so much shit.