RugbyRebels

Mikey Brown wrote:

Puja wrote:I can understand the logic behind selecting Furbank. He was in the England pre-6N squad with these coaches and played 2 games at the start of the year and has had the benefit of nearly the entire pre-Autumn training camp. Malins has had under a week to learn the systems for the first time.

I guess the same logic applies to Willis, although I am more disappointed in that as I think he's a special player and a special case. Clearly Eddie thinks that applies to JHill over Ewels (who was the other captain opposite Fazlet in that intra-squad match last week!) and is confident that Slade can drop in at 12 for England despite not having played there in 5 years. Guess Eddie meant it when he said that 12 and 13 are functionally the same position nowadays!

Puja

Hey, it's only 3 years. Though you have to wonder why Tuilagi was the one to shift to 12 previously if we could have kept similar patterns for 10.Ford/Faz 12. Faz/Slade 13.Tuilagi/Joseph.

Will be interesting to see where Lawrence comes on and if they switch things up at that point. Seems a waste of time to put Slade at 12 and then shift him after 50 minutes though.

Furbank is backup 10, with Thorley coming in and Watson to 15?

Raggs wrote:Hasn't Slade always looked fairly poor at 12?

Puja wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:

Puja wrote:I can understand the logic behind selecting Furbank. He was in the England pre-6N squad with these coaches and played 2 games at the start of the year and has had the benefit of nearly the entire pre-Autumn training camp. Malins has had under a week to learn the systems for the first time.

I guess the same logic applies to Willis, although I am more disappointed in that as I think he's a special player and a special case. Clearly Eddie thinks that applies to JHill over Ewels (who was the other captain opposite Fazlet in that intra-squad match last week!) and is confident that Slade can drop in at 12 for England despite not having played there in 5 years. Guess Eddie meant it when he said that 12 and 13 are functionally the same position nowadays!

Puja

Hey, it's only 3 years. Though you have to wonder why Tuilagi was the one to shift to 12 previously if we could have kept similar patterns for 10.Ford/Faz 12. Faz/Slade 13.Tuilagi/Joseph.

Furbank is backup 10, with Thorley coming in and Watson to 15?

I actually respect the idea of being able to change the point of attack depending on the opposition, with the creativity going from 10 to 13. Gave us options.

When was Slade 12 for England in 2017 then? I had assumed he was last playing 12 in the warmups for RWC 2015.

Puja

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:Am hearing Lawrence to start, Obano, Hill and Willis on the bench, and a 6/2 split with Earl on the bench too in the forwards.

That said, it could be the voices in the my head, but at least they're not telling me to stop killing again.

You need to have a word with your sources!!

Damn straight, though I'm oddly pleased.....Willis aside.

FKAS wrote:

Oakboy wrote:Good - Slade at 12.
Bad - no Willis, Furbank at 15.

Willis is a young player just joining his first international squad. The other backrows have had more squad time. Eddie will want him up to speed before including him. I think that's a good choice.

I have no idea why Furbank is in there. There's a better fullback in the squad. There's better fullbacks not called up.

Banquo wrote:

FKAS wrote:

Oakboy wrote:Good - Slade at 12.
Bad - no Willis, Furbank at 15.

Willis is a young player just joining his first international squad. The other backrows have had more squad time. Eddie will want him up to speed before including him. I think that's a good choice.

I have no idea why Furbank is in there. There's a better fullback in the squad. There's better fullbacks not called up.

Willis is older than both Curry and Earl just FYI. Personally I think he brings something different to the party that we could do with.

Banquo wrote:

FKAS wrote:

Oakboy wrote:Good - Slade at 12.
Bad - no Willis, Furbank at 15.

Willis is a young player just joining his first international squad. The other backrows have had more squad time. Eddie will want him up to speed before including him. I think that's a good choice.

I have no idea why Furbank is in there. There's a better fullback in the squad. There's better fullbacks not called up.

Willis is older than both Curry and Earl just FYI. Personally I think he brings something different to the party that we could do with.

Banquo wrote:

FKAS wrote:

Oakboy wrote:Good - Slade at 12.
Bad - no Willis, Furbank at 15.

Willis is a young player just joining his first international squad. The other backrows have had more squad time. Eddie will want him up to speed before including him. I think that's a good choice.

I have no idea why Furbank is in there. There's a better fullback in the squad. There's better fullbacks not called up.

Willis is older than both Curry and Earl just FYI. Personally I think he brings something different to the party that we could do with.

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Puja wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:
Hey, it's only 3 years. Though you have to wonder why Tuilagi was the one to shift to 12 previously if we could have kept similar patterns for 10.Ford/Faz 12. Faz/Slade 13.Tuilagi/Joseph.

Furbank is backup 10, with Thorley coming in and Watson to 15?

I actually respect the idea of being able to change the point of attack depending on the opposition, with the creativity going from 10 to 13. Gave us options.

When was Slade 12 for England in 2017 then? I had assumed he was last playing 12 in the warmups for RWC 2015.

Puja

Argentina in the Autumn and then as a sub vs Aus. Played 13 on the summer tour to Aus, with Loz and Francis playing 12, and then played 13 against Samoa with Francis at 12.

Raggs wrote:

Banquo wrote:

FKAS wrote:
Willis is a young player just joining his first international squad. The other backrows have had more squad time. Eddie will want him up to speed before including him. I think that's a good choice.

I have no idea why Furbank is in there. There's a better fullback in the squad. There's better fullbacks not called up.

Willis is older than both Curry and Earl just FYI. Personally I think he brings something different to the party that we could do with.

I think it's more that Willis has only just arrived in camp. If he doesn't get serious game time I'll be disappointed.

Adam_P wrote:Yep, has stepped in at 10 multiple times for Saints when the starting fly half has gone off injured.

FKAS wrote:

Banquo wrote:

FKAS wrote:
Willis is a young player just joining his first international squad. The other backrows have had more squad time. Eddie will want him up to speed before including him. I think that's a good choice.

I have no idea why Furbank is in there. There's a better fullback in the squad. There's better fullbacks not called up.

Willis is older than both Curry and Earl just FYI. Personally I think he brings something different to the party that we could do with.

Curry and Earl have both been in squad before though and know how Eddie operates. Neither were in the Prem Final so have had more prep time with the squad.

I'm sure Willis will be capped shortly. He's exactly the type of flanker Eddie seems to like. I also think Eddie will develop his game further, which in a way is worrying.

Puja wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Adam_P wrote:15. George Furbank (Northampton Saints, 2 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 43 caps)
13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 50 caps)
12. Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 29 caps)
11. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 56 caps)
10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 83 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 99 caps)
1. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 59 caps)
2. Jamie George (Saracens, 49 caps)
3. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 35 caps)
4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 38 caps)
5. Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, uncapped)
6. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 23 caps)
7. Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 18 caps)
8. Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 51 caps)

FINISHERS
16. Tom Dunn, (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
17. Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 18 caps)
18. Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 3 caps)
19. Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 15 caps)
20. Ben Earl (Bristol Bears, 3 caps)
21. Dan Robson (Wasps, 2 caps)
22. Ollie Lawrence (Worcester Warriors, uncapped)
23. Ollie Thorley (Gloucester Rugby, uncapped)

I like that. There's opportunity to mix it up somewhat in the next game, and even then there's potentially four debutants and another four players with 3 caps or less in this 23.

Nostrapuja predicts:
Ewels will come on for Hill after 45 minutes. Genge will come on after 60 minutes. Lawrence will come on for Slade after 65 minutes. Stuart, Earl, Robson and Thorley will come on between the 72nd minute and the 79th. Tom Dunn will continue coming within touching distance of a first cap then having it yanked away from him by not coming on at all. Possibly to make it hurt even worse, George will get a yellow card and then there won't be a single scrum for 10 minutes.

Puja

Raggs wrote:If we're playing to a system that has a distributor at 15, then Watson just doesn't fit.

Banquo wrote:

Raggs wrote:

Banquo wrote: Willis is older than both Curry and Earl just FYI. Personally I think he brings something different to the party that we could do with.

I think it's more that Willis has only just arrived in camp. If he doesn't get serious game time I'll be disappointed.

So have a few others, but I agree with the second part

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Raggs wrote:
I think it's more that Willis has only just arrived in camp. If he doesn't get serious game time I'll be disappointed.

So have a few others, but I agree with the second part

Mind, the only other player who has just arrived, without recent experience of England, and has gone into the XXIII is Jonny Hill and he's in a much less competitive area. The gap between Hill and Ewels on current form is significantly larger than the gap between Underhill, Curry, BillyV, or Earl. Where there's finer margins, I'm okay with the decision to not dump him in after four days' training.

I mean, I'd've picked him myself, but I do understand it.

Puja

Raggs wrote:

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote: So have a few others, but I agree with the second part

Mind, the only other player who has just arrived, without recent experience of England, and has gone into the XXIII is Jonny Hill and he's in a much less competitive area. The gap between Hill and Ewels on current form is significantly larger than the gap between Underhill, Curry, BillyV, or Earl. Where there's finer margins, I'm okay with the decision to not dump him in after four days' training.

I mean, I'd've picked him myself, but I do understand it.

Puja

Hill has had previous experience though. I am surprised he goes in front of Launch, but maybe there's s&c issues.

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Raggs wrote:
I think it's more that Willis has only just arrived in camp. If he doesn't get serious game time I'll be disappointed.

So have a few others, but I agree with the second part

Mind, the only other player who has just arrived, without recent experience of England, and has gone into the XXIII is Jonny Hill and he's in a much less competitive area. The gap between Hill and Ewels on current form is significantly larger than the gap between Underhill, Curry, BillyV, or Earl. Where there's finer margins, I'm okay with the decision to not dump him in after four days' training.

I mean, I'd've picked him myself, but I do understand it.

Puja